Trailer issues???

[GT]

I have a dual axle trailer with surge brakes. The problem is with the boat off the trailer you can not back up!! Its like the surge brakes are engaged. The tounge that shifts back and fourth seems to be moving in and out. But when there is no load on the trailer the thing just bounces up and down and will not roll smoothly. I can not back it down a ramp. With the boat looaded on trailer everything works properly. I have WD-40 the tounge that retracts in and out thinking it was just rusted up but without any weight on the trailer it just bucks and kicks. I do not see any loose parts that may be miising .Any ideas. Thanks.

[Al from Canada]

Do you have a 5 wire plug? You need to have the 5th wire (blue one) wired to the backup lights on your truck. When you put the truck in reverse it activates the solenoid and disengages the brakes for backing.

If you're backing down a ramp then the coupler wouldn't likely push in and activate the brakes but when you're on level ground the tongue moves in, activating the brakes and you can't back up. With the 5 wire plug, the tongue still moves in obviously, but the brakes won't activate.

[GT]

Not sure!! But I have had this boat new since 2000 and have never had this problem before. I have a GMC 2000 Z71 with the towing package. The wire plug came with the truck. The piston will engage with the boat on the trailer. You can move forwards and backwards while watching it and it will move in both directions. With trailer unloaded forward is fine. It just will not back up without jumping around like crazy.

[Al from Canada]

Check to see if the plug is a 4 or 5 wire......if it's 4 then it's not disengaging the brakes while backing up.

[GT]

Just checked plug is a 5.

[Al from Canada]

Hmmm..........I'm going to suggest that I move this thread to the Trailer forum; I'm puzzled as to why it'll back up with the boat on the trailer but not empty.

Let's see what the guys there say......

[GT]

Thanks!! Sorry for posting in wrong forum!!

[Al from Canada]

Not really the wrong forum.....just that you'll get better answers to this problem in the Trailer forum.

[PowerFish]

My ford had a relay that blew a couple times, had the same problem when the reverse light relay blew...

[Lyn O. Dyer]

Maybe the reverse solenoid has failed..I sent you an instant message with my cell #,Lyn

[GT]

I must retract my one post it is not a 5 plug it is a 4. I am working this weekend and called home and had the wife look at it yesterday for me. Got home to double check and it is a 4 plug. The trailer has "surge brakes" not "disc." No blue wire on the pig tail coming from the trailer to the plug for the truck. I have not checked my home e-mail Lynn as of yet. Checked all the wires for a small nick or tear appears to be all good. Hooked up to trailer last night piston on tounge did engage and disengage when pulling forward and backwards. All lights on trailer worked properly. WD- 40 the tounge that moves back and fourth again to engage the piston to surge brakes again. It is moving freely with boat loaded. I will have to try again with boat unloaded. Appeared to be alot of rust come out of it this time when WD-40 it. Maybe just rusted up I hope.

[jevery]

I would think that a 2000 model tandem trailer would have a reverse lockout solenoid.

You don’t see one of these anywhere on your trailer?





And your trailer connector isn’t like this 5-flat?



If that’s the case and you haven’t been using a lockout pin in the actuator when backing, I’d think you would have always had trouble backing up an incline or even backing on level ground

[GT]

I am at work now. If I was home I would take some photos. The connector is a 4 prong. No solenoid bolted to trailer. However at the front of the trailer where the tounge connects to the ball hitch if you get on the ground and look up inside the hitch part of boat trailer which is hollow there is a solenoid with a line that goes to each side of the trailer to the surge brake. It has a resevior for fluid. I check it now and then to make sure it is full. The hitch at the front of the trailer has to chains with hooks to connect to the bumper of the truck. A small cable with hook to connect to the bumper. Incase hitch comes uncoupled. Once hitch tounge is connected to ball on truck a small pin in the side is inserted to keep latch from flipping up. You can also add a regular lock to the other side to double lock it. While trailer is hooked to truck and loaded with boat you can pull forwards and backwards and the tounge connected to the ball on truck will slide back and fourth depending on direction traveling. The tounge is actually a slide type. It goes in and out of the trailer body. This tounge will slide freely with boat loaded on trailer. No problems backing or going forward. When boat is unloaded forward is no problem but backing up it acts like the surge brakes engage and will not free up. Seems like if solenoid was bad it would do the same thing while loaded also.

[jevery]

Without an electrical solenoid lockout you need some means to prevent brake activation when backing. I believe that some of the pre-solenoid surge brake trailers have a manual brake lockout operated by inserting a pin through the actuator/tongue assembly to prevent the actuator from compressing the piston when backing. Do you have another pin beside the hitch ball lock pin? If not, do you find two holes that align through the trailer tongue and the actuator assembly when the actuator is in the fully forward position in which a pin might be inserted to prevent actuator movement like this?



All surge brake trailers have a sliding actuator assembly in the tongue to activate the brakes, whether or not a solenoid is present. The part I can’t understand is how you can back your trailer when loaded and have difficulty backing when empty. Shouldn’t make any difference whether it’s loaded or empty. What I would expect of a trailer without some type of brake interrupt is for it to back freely down an incline whether loaded or empty, (because the tongue is pulling on the ball), but for the trailer to lock the brakes when attempting to back up an incline, again, whether loaded or empty, as then the tongue is being pushed against the ball.



Modified by jevery at 2:28 PM 4/6/2008

[TRCM]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The trailer has "surge brakes" not "disc." No blue wire on the pig tail coming from the trailer to the plug for the truck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

surge refers to the type of braking system, not drum or disc.

I'd bet you do have discs, and it sounds like you have an older system that requires a manual lockout to backup since you have no blue wire on the trailer

[hoss15]

i think it maybe the reverse solenoid. maybe a loose wire or rusted wire. i had the same thing happen.

[PJCodner]

First off do you have disk brakes or drum? If you have disk then you need a backing soleniod to release the brakes to back up. This would require a 5 pin plug and a blue wire from your

My guess is you have drums since you can back your trailer down the ramp with the boat on. In that case a drum brake usually only applies about 5%-20% braking pressure when backing up. So when the boat is on the trailer with the added weight it won't hold the trailer when backing up. Once you offload the boat then the the trailer brakes at 20% are enough to probably lock up the rear tires and cause it to drag them when backing up. The pictures above this show a pin that you put in the tongue to stop it from activating the brakes when backing up. If you don't have that and you have a UFP style actuator I believe there was a lockout piece that you put in the top where you fill the reservoir and it stops the actuator from activating the brakes.

If you are unsure you could always give Lynn O' Dyer a call at UFP I believe his contact info is at the top.

[AmesHusker]

I think you may have a misconception about how the actuator works, GT. The part of the hitch that slides in and out of the trailer frame is your brake actuator. When it slides into the trailer frame (either when you apply the brakes while going forward, or when you try backing up) it is applying the brakes. From your posts, it seems that you may think this action negates the brakes.

Beyond that, I agree 100% with MNJAVELIN - I bet you have drum brakes that are slipping when you back up with the boat on the trailer, but holding firm enough to keep the wheels from turning when the trailer is empty. If you don't have a reverse solenoid(and the 5th wire in your connector), then the only way to keep your brakes from working when you back up is the manual lockout that's shown in jevery's picture. Does your trailer have this?

[keefus]

My tralier has a release lever under the coupler right behind where the ball goes. push it up to release the brakes when you are backing up. My is a 96 model and now I have installed the back up solenoid.

[Andrew8127]

I am at a loss to this problem but if you will notice he has had the same boat and trailer since he bought it new in 2000. Call me overly optimistic, but since he hasn't had any problems for nearly 8 years, the problem is probably caused by a failed part and not his ignorance about how trailer brakes work.