sick triton...Help!

[blackhawk431]

hello, my name is James Duncan and I am from Idaho. I have been having a hell of a time setting up my Triton TR 20 the last three years that I have owned it. I love the boat, but I just cant get speed that I feel I should be getting. first off, the most important thing is I live in Idaho where high altitude plays a huge roll on my outboard being at 2500 ft above sea level. but, I cant seem to get it the way I want. I have a 6 inch jackplate and I have gone up and down on it and still cant get what I need. I have gone through 3 props playing with them, with the each set up on the jackplate. its a 98 TR 20 with a 98 Johnson Venom 200. the best so far that I have gotten, is 55 mph at 5000 RPM's with a terrible hole shot using a 4 blade 26 pitch ballastic. I have also used a 24 pitch raker, higher RPM's at 5,600, less speed at 53. also tried a 25 pitch renegade and worst hole shot and 54 mph at 5200 RPM's. worst off, every prop that I have used, with someone else in the boat, I have to have them get up on the bow sometimes to even get on plane. I feel this should be a 65+ mph boat with a good hole shot and at this point, I am confused on what else to do. I have been told to go to a 25 or 26 temptest and Trophy. also, my tackle box is the front deck compartment that came with slots to hold my 7 plano boxes. It has about 30 lbs of tackle in it and I have been told that was my problem as well and some say its not a factor. what's all your take on this???? any help would be appreciated!!! I don't want to sell the boat or get a new motor, but something has to give. i am going in on 10th of feb to have my motor dyno'ed. 2 months after i bought the boat, the lower unit went out. the dealer in TN rebuilt it and then i think he gave me the wrong gears with the wrong ratio for my boat since its a Venom and those motors where high output motors. im lost! its inchs over the transon when i ran it tonight with all three props and it blew out on all but the raker and wouldnt get on plane. the raker took awhile and when it did, i topped out at 53 with 4700.

Thanks,
James Duncan
Getrdonecwby@aol.com
208-703-7509

[THE WITCHDOCTOR]

I think I would start with he basics.... is it getting full them to ottle? If so, I would look at the sync and lync, then you stated it had been rebuilt. Alot of builders will retard the timing on thehem to keep from blowing them up on the brekin... get the timing checked.... then, if i am not mistake, at alttitude there is a jet change possible to make it lean up some for the air....

[blackhawk431]

as for the jets, i was told it didnt need it unless i planned on running at 5000 or higher, which in my case, i only have one tournament at that level. the rest are about 500 ft less than where i live, which here in boise is 2500 ft. as for the timing, my mechanic told me that he didnt touch the timing at all. but, its possible that someone did something to it. how do i check that? can i use a normal timing light? i thinks its fishy that before i had that lower unit changed out, i was running 69 mph at 5800 and the very next time i took it out after that, my speed and RPMs have died ever since.

[THE WITCHDOCTOR]

To check the timing, you really need a test wheel, which the marina mechanic will probably have...

[Lockjaw]

How about a good warm compression check? Then take the cover off the carbs, and give the engine full throttle (not running) and make sure the butterflies on the carbs are open fully. Make sure all 6 open the same amount, and at pretty much the same time.

If that checks good, then set the propshaft 3.5 inches below the pad and get a baseline speed with a prop. Pick one, like the raker. Then go out and drive it and see how it does. Or try all 3 of the ones you used.

You should not need to have someone move to the front of the boat, and I got better then 50 pounds in the front of my boat.

[blackhawk431]

i have checked seveal time, the compression was good and as for the butterflies, they all opened evenly and fully opened. i checked that to make sure my hotfoot was getting full pedal down/open throttle from the motor and it was working like it should. i think i am leaning towards wrong gears put in. but im not sure. i will now more on monday when i post the dyno test thats being done on it to makes sure im getting 200 hp.

[blackhawk431]

how can i check to see what gears i have in my lower unit. this is only a thoguht that i am thinking, but what if i had the lightning gear case and then when he sent my new lower unit back, that it had the magnum gear case in it????? how do i see if this was done? if this happen, i want my higher gears back that was in the boat. i think i got robbed on my gears but dont know how to prove it.

[ELGIN]

The Magnum gears will not fit in a Lightning housing.

Have you owned this boat from day one?
Has it ever run better than this?
What kind of load do you have in the boat, has this changed?
You posted the throttle plates open all the way, did you try (with the engine off) to move the lower two with your finger?

[blackhawk431]

no, i purchased the boat from a dealer and the previous owner had it since day one. what was wrong with the lower unit, from what my mechanic found, was that "he" sold the boat cause of motor problems. when my mechanic took it off, the gears where chewed up, most the front gear, and the housing was cracked and fixed with orange RTV sealant. the fishy part when i threatened the dealer when i bought it, it had NO shreadings from the gears in the case, it was clean.

as for running better, i have. when i first ran it, i got high 60s with 5600 rpms and bad chine walk that i learned to overcome. the second time i had it out, it wouldnt run in forward gear. to find out later the next day, the gear problem came about and i contacted the dealer and he worked with me since he felt bad selling me a POS and offered to pay to send it back to TN from ID, replace it, and send it back and pay for the install of the new one. since then, crap for speed and crap for RPMs.

as for load, i have all my tackle up front in middle storage compartment with the seven plano boxes it came with....so about 30 lbs for tackle. the front storage box has three life jackets and my docking stuff like two dock bumpers and a 10 foot rope.

as for the two finger test on the lower two, i havent tried that, but what am i looking at excatly and i will do that tomorrow and repost on here and tell you what i find out.

James

[ELGIN]

The RTV on the gear case is a bit surprising.

Can you post a picture of the gear case you have now, this may help us with your questions.

As to the throttle plates, when you remove the air box (engine off) and move the throttle to wide open, see if you can push the lower two plates closed while holding the throttle wide open (engine off).

The lower two throttle plate connectors can come loose, this will cause the plates to not open when the vacuum of the engine is introduced to the intake, in other words, when you try to accelerate the lower throttle plates will not open causing a loss of power.

[blackhawk431]

as for the pic of lower unit, let me see what i can find. as for the information on the lower two butterfies, that is interesting and got me thinking of maybe that could be it. i will surely check that out tomorrow. let me see if i have a pic....

[ELGIN]

Make sure that the linkage that runs up under the flywheel is moving to the stop also, this is your timing with out that the engine will also have a loss of power.

[blackhawk431]

ah ok. i just took some pics, where do i send it or how do i post it?

[ELGIN]

Click on the link below, it will explain how to post pictures.


http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread/91069

[blackhawk431]

[blackhawk431]

i contacted the dealer just now and he states that he never replace the plate and as for the gears, he put the standard gear in it. he said that my other lower unit was a standard gears as well and the magnums never came in that year. i told him about the difference in the speed and RPMs before and after the swap and he blamed it on firing, carbs, and props. he said that when he replaced the gear case, he would never put the HO gears in it cause of cost wise for him. i said well if it came to you with HO gears, you wouldnt replace them? he said no cuase i didnt come to him with HO gears so he put what the motor called for from its serial number and put them in. so from what he said was that he put in standard gears, which he also claims wasnt the magnum or lightning gear case, just standard whatever that means. im racking my brain with this damn boat!

[ChampioNman]

Those intake passages aren't plugged are they? The gear ratio should be 1.86:1.

[blackhawk431]

DYNO RESULTS

basically what i found out today was have been running bad fuel and crappy oil (compared to what he told me). here in idaho, we have a store call Albertsons and i never heard anything bad about them, but they always have the cheapest gas in town. i guess there is a reason. other than that, i use penzoil, which i have been told never to use again. due to the fact of these things, he told me i had water in the fuel that was running out as a grey stubstance coming out of my carb when he was reving it up on the dyno. ran it and then did a combustion check. all three on the left side averaged 85-90 and the right side averaged 75 lbs. all together, the dyno showed it running 2500 psi coming out of the motor with the limits at 5000 rpm, should be 3750-4100. he replaced one of my 5 month old spark plugs and it jumped it up to 3100 psi. he said it wasnt to late and no serious damage has started, but gave me some good oil with combustion cleaner in it and told me to run it with new spark plugs and schedual with him another dyno in a month or so. he said he thought the gear ratio was right on, just some stuff going on in the motor due to water mixing with the oil. we pumped the fuel out of the tank till the water was gone, so now its a matter of getting the water deposits out of the motor and carbs.

[ChampioNman]

Sure can't beat a DYNO!! Wish I could afford one.

[blackhawk431]

the dyno only cost me 80 bucks. thats his normal price for dyno. you basicaly pay a hour of labor and thats all the time it really takes.