Virginia DGIF wants to increase fees for licenses!!

[mikesxpress]

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/r...y.asp
Virginia DGIF wants to increase fees for licenses and is taking public comment from Dec 16 – April 14. If you don’t send your comments in, don’t bitch about the increase.

Proposed Regulation Amendment
4VAC15-20-65. Definitions and Miscellaneous: In General. Hunting, trapping, and fishing license and permit fees.
Summary
The proposal is to increase the fees for hunting, trapping, and fishing licenses and certain permits by the following amounts: (i) Virginia resident annual and lifetime licenses, licenses for additional privileges, and certain permits, by $5 each; (ii) Virginia resident "sportsman's" licenses by $30 each; (iii) non-resident annual and lifetime licenses, licenses for additional privileges, by $50 each; (iv) the nonresident license to freshwater and saltwater fish, by $63; and (v) the nonresident license to freshwater and saltwater fish for five consecutive days, by $55.


My submittal:
We have all been asked to do more with less the past two years. This relates to other sections of VA state Govt. Business owners along with private industry and federal employees have all had either a reduction/wages frozen or loss of jobs. For DGIF to want to increase these fees to us with little to no enhanced past performance to warrant it is beyond belief. Time to buckle down like the rest of us!!! NO INCREASE. We are already one of the most expensive states for fish and game license fees on the east coast and we can't even get a free public boat ramp along the Aquia section of the Potomac.

Proposed Regulation Amendment
4VAC15-20-66. Definitions and Miscellaneous: In General. Admittance, parking, or other use fee at certain department-owned facilities.
Summary
The proposal is to establish a daily fee of $3 or an annual fee equal to the price of an annual basic state resident fishing or hunting license, for admittance, parking, or other use at Department-owned wildlife management areas and public fishing lakes. However, such fee shall not apply to (i) any person holding a valid hunting, trapping, or fishing license, or a current certificate of boat registration issued by the Department, (ii) persons 16 years of age or younger, or (iii) Department-owned boat ramps.

My submittal:
While this would not affect me as I have all the hunting/fishing licenses, how would you enforce it for the folks that don't? Are you going to stop all of us and check for our hunting/fishing licenses or a paid "parking permit"? I don't want the DGIF officer stopping me as I'm parking to hunt or fish. I want them in the field. DGIF needs to be managing our fish and game, not to be confused with parking attendants. Lots of access to the various Department-owned wildlife management areas and public fishing lakes and no way for the officers to police all of them. If the Warden is busy checking the parking area, that takes away from what they are suppose to be doing. Which is enforcement of fish and game laws.
You want the folks using the areas that don't have a hunting/fishing license to pay for access, I'm good with that. Sell them an access license that costs the same as one of our hunting/fishing licenses do and check them in the field. Every adult in the field should have one. Keeps the Wardens in the field and out of the parking lot!



Modified by mikesxpress at 12:38 PM 12/23/2010

[goose]

Mike your link don't seem to work

[mikesxpress]

Try it now John.

[Munkin]

That will suck! Merryland almost doubled their fishing license price a year or so ago and I saw no benefits from it.

Allen

[goose]

[herndonpro]

Bought the lifetime license several years ago it looks to be a better buy now. Also have the lifetime launch pass for the state parks. If you are avid about your fishing and hunting they are the way to go.

HP

[Gunny]

I'm not going to bitch if they use the money for good cause. Afterall buying a permit here is a heck of alot cheaper they I used to pay 10 years ago in CA, and that has gone up a bunch. Even if it's $25 a year I won't complain, CA it was almost $40 for everything, then an additional $10 every time you went for park fees and daily permits.

I think we have it pretty good actually!

[mikesxpress]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Gunny &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I'm not going to bitch if they use the money for good cause. I think we have it pretty good actually! </td></tr></table>

Scott has expressed a level of trust for the VA DGIF program in comparison with the "left hand coast" license fees.
Hummmm?

Back to the issue.

For those of you who don't know how this works:
Federal money is not a dollar-for-dollar match. It’s essentially one big pot of money — and it changes yearly because it’s based on sales tax revenues (HB38), which change — that is divvied out to states based on license sales. That's because a state's share of federal Pittman-Robertson money -- funds based on sales taxes collected on sporting arms and ammunition -- is based on the number of license holders.

DGIF has also spoke about charging a nominal fee (?) for a landowner license. I have acreage and am not required to buy a license to hunt my property. (I buy them anyway because I hunt all over) DGIF does not manage my property I do. I run the tractor. I buy the fuel and seed to plant and maintain the food plots. I deal with the renegade hunters and associated dogs myself, I call no one. *Hint. I have never had anyone return after I caught them. Better track record than our local LEO's. You really don't want to know, but it involves buying skunk scent by the gallon and the local wrecker service leaves me a Christmas basket&gt;&gt;&gt; I have video!!!

***Though lifetime license holders aren't buying licenses annually, their numbers count toward federal funding, which currently equates to $20 a year per hunter and about $10 per angler in Virginia. Generally speaking, lifetime license holders in Virginia are still responsible for specialty licenses, such as for archery or muzzleloader hunting. MOre money.

Let me clarify some of the fees were looking at:
It’s not JUST a $5 increase. Bow hunt? +$5. Muzzleloader? +$5. You want to hunt big game? +$5. You want to hunt period +$5. You need a crossbow as well? +$5. That's allot of trusting dollars coming in and we have no track record indicating the DGIF can spend it properly?

So using myself as an example:
Increases:
Freshwater Lic - $5.00
Saltwater - $5.00
Hunting - $5.00
Big Game - $5.00
Crossbow - $5.00
$25.00 increase for me.
While I am not required to have a license to hunt my own land, I do travel around the state and hunt on others lands so hence the licenses besides fishing.

The VA DGIF can spend money for wildlife management and economically?
Well not really.
They just had a presentation on the Short Hill land purchase that two years ago they would not pay $4.6 Mil but decided to pay $6 Mil for it last year. All this while license sales are down 15% and projected to drop further.??? Why are they still buying property if the hunting population is dropping? The bird watchers and more of the mountain bikers are using these public lands than sportsman, but they don't currently pay anything towards it? Sounds like CA?
Yea I trust them.

[HalBrown]

I am fortunate in that when I turned 65 I picked up a lifetime Virginia license for $10.00 (ten years ago). It looks like a credit card. It does not include trout, or salt water.

[mikesxpress]

Great deal Hal!!
It's does not include big game, crossbow, etc...

[MD Doug]

Thanks for posting this Mike. I enjoy fishing some of the waters in Virginia and last year I probably fished in areas that require a Virginia License 5 to 8 days. I've purchased a Annual Non Resident License for probably the last 15 years or so. This proposal is kind of disturbing in that it will soon be too expensive for a lot of people to come to Virginia to fish. As I read the proposal, a Non Resident License will cost $99 annually if this passes. I know of a few guys who will throw their hands up and say “forget it, I’m not going”. At $99 for a Non Resident, it feels like we are getting hit with a “Sin Tax” like they would put on alcohol or tobacco. It seems like a deterrent to try keep us out, although I realize that’s not the case. They want my money.

It makes me wonder if legislators have thought about the economic impact of reduced visitors to state and the effect that might have on some communities. The DGIF may increase their on purse, but at what cost? If I have to pay more for a license, that money is being taken away from something else, like a tackle shop, or local lodging or meals. We (the general public) only have but so much money to spend and sooner or later you hit your limit and just can’t do it anymore. As an example, I used to go to Smith Mountain, Kerr or Gaston (or both), Lake Anna, the James and the Rappahannock every year. 5 years ago, I would probably spend just as much time in places that required a Virginia License, as I did fishing the Potomac or other spots in MD. But its really hard to justify making those trips with the increased expenses now. If I remember right, the last time I added up the cost for a 3 day trip to Smith Mountain Lake, it was going to cost $700 for me (and that wasn’t including a $200 entry fee or the $36 Non resident license). It costs me $12 just to get my boat across the bridge, but I can thank the State of Maryland for that one. Add to that the increased fuel prices and I can really only afford to make day trips to Lake Anna or the Rappahannock. And on those trips, I’m not stopping somewhere to get something to eat. I’m usually packing a lunch and bringing my drinks from home. I’m rarely buying baits from local tackle stores, I’m shopping online. I like going to different places but its just gotten too costly, plus I’m A LOT closer to the Potomac, and the fishing is ok here.

At 39, maybe a Lifetime license is the way to go. God willing, it will be cost effective and save me money in the long run. But that means I need to find an extra $505 this year, and like many people across the region, I won’t see a cost of living increase or pay raise this year. Maybe I’ll just stick to paying $50 for a MD Baysport license and fish the river and Upper Bay.

Thanks again for posting the information.



Modified by MD Doug at 12:09 PM 12/27/2010

[Carlos H]

Mike,
Thanks for the information.
For me it is a bit more than just the $5.00 in all the fees, it is about accountability of the government for what the monies are being used for and how the budget is being executed. I am sure that if I was to dig enough I could find out exactly how each dollar is spent by DGIF, however that is only part of the story. To me, the rest of the story is how does the fee increase actually impact the masses that are served by the VDGIF.

I travel and fish a good bit in other places, not just VA. In comparison to other States, some things that I think are lacking for the masses that fish the Potomac and our VDIF managed areas are a lack of state launch facilities, lack of Warden enforcement/visibility, lack of fishery management (does the river really have LMBV, snakeheads, Stripers), and a lack of stocking programs.

Anothet thing that concerns me is the language that seems to be buried that this is the max they could raise the fee's. This implies that they would have raised the fees more if they could have.

In closing, I would want the VDGIF not just say they need the monies, but do the due diligence, (as have the rest of us in this economy) and show how they have realigned to support the masses and the defiencies we all know are in our area and in VA proper. If the alignment shows they rate (and it is rate not require) the increase then we should support.

Scottie, in reference to your post. I have done a bit of fishing in California...not as much as you as I was not stationed there, but there is no comparioson to the facilities that are offered in Californina to what is offered here. Do you think the lefties would have 22 plus miles of a major river system that does not have a state ramp to support activities on the river? I think not..... One state that I can attest to is Michigan, they have many ramps, DNR officer visibility/enforcement and way better ramps facilities then offered here. Where is the State ramp on Anna, how many on the Potomac? How many on the James, Smith Mountain etc....compared to other States, we pay less, but we also get way less. If VDGIF wants more money, realign/examine how the current monies are spent and then SHOW ME how the monies will be executed and support the activities they are required to support by law.


Carlos

[Gunny]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Carlos H &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Mike,

Scottie, in reference to your post. I have done a bit of fishing in California...not as much as you as I was not stationed there, but there is no comparioson to the facilities that are offered in Californina to what is offered here. Do you think the lefties would have 22 plus miles of a major river system that does not have a state ramp to support activities on the river? I think not..... One state that I can attest to is Michigan, they have many ramps, DNR officer visibility/enforcement and way better ramps facilities then offered here. Where is the State ramp on Anna, how many on the Potomac? How many on the James, Smith Mountain etc....compared to other States, we pay less, but we also get way less. If VDGIF wants more money, realign/examine how the current monies are spent and then SHOW ME how the monies will be executed and support the activities they are required to support by law.


Carlos</td></tr></table>

Carlos, up state the most likely do on the Delta, I didn't fish up there, but in SoCal, no the state does not have a launch ramp to be found. And if you go to the Colorado River there is more then 22 miles without a state ramp, ramps are privately owned on the that river, but it's in CA. The lakes are not owned by the state but by the city or county they are in. That's why they are call San Deigo City or San Deigo County lake not CA lakes. The only one I think that is in SoCal is the newer one DVL, but I believe that is still owned by Riverside county. Those lakes only have 1 ramp per lake. It's different, but the bottom line bitching about it on a website isn't going to make it better.

You either pay it or don't, that's really the bottom line, I want to fish so I will have to pay it. Fighting the state over it isn't going to make them take the $5 away. And I understand you being upset Mike, but the bottom line again if you don't want to do it don't pay it.

[mikesxpress]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Gunny &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
You either pay it or don't, that's really the bottom line, I want to fish so I will have to pay it. Fighting the state over it isn't going to make them take the $5 away. And I understand you being upset Mike, but the bottom line again if you don't want to do it don't pay it. </td></tr></table>

Scott,
Paying to play is a fact of life. I'm not questioning that. The issue of what are we getting for what we pay now and what would an increase in the fee do for us. Rolling over and just accepting the increase without question goes against all rules of a democratic society.

[Carlos H]

Mike

You hit the nail on the head, democratic society. I think that part of Soctties take is that he (myself included) have been instutitionalized to follow orders with_out question. Not so much, to question, but do as I say when I say. I can state that I have been there done that and that was with my life and others lives riding on the decisions and actions that I take or want others to take, NOW.

I think that maybe some of the gulf for paying and playing.

Scottie, I have no issues with paying or playing, but one of the reasons I spent my youth in service to our country is to have discussions like this. Me, I question and ask why...that is how I can grow and also understand reasons for decisions the ones that support ME now. The beauty of my life now, is that I can quesiton and ask why, and they have to explain! So, no more rolling over, unless it is life or death..not too much of that now for me anyway.

Also, noted on the CA state of mind..I again affirm and state, I sure very very very glad that I do not live there. They get very little return for the BIG money spent and they just continue to pay to play....

On edit and in closing as I think my feeling are know and I do not want to turn this from an informational thread into something else. I have no issues with paying to play, I can afford to do that. But they need to tell me why and explain the reasoning why I and the masses have to pay more to play.

Carlos

[Ntimad8rs]

Kind of like the Hotel tax. "They are from out of town" and "they will all pay it" and "we don't care about out of staters" people have taken over. Vermont has done something that other states should do. Reciprocity. If your state charges 100 for out of state, that is what you get charged. Your state just set your rate for going to Vermont. If all states did that and were aware of that the rates would be more even across the board. I do not mind paying a reasonable difference, but don't try to use it as a revenue stream, the state will lose in the end. People will find out and go elsewhere, no state has a "lock" on great bass fishing. If they do this, it will greatly affect their revenue stream. Can you say...trickle.

[LarryR.]

[HalBrown]

OOPS! That would be a life time $10 <u>fishing</u> license.

[Tom B]

Does Va even have waterway patrol - of all the times i have fished in virginia, i dont think i have ever been checked

[mikesxpress]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Tom B &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Does Va even have waterway patrol - of all the times i have fished in virginia, i dont think i have ever been checked</td></tr></table>

Exactly!
Carlos and I live right here at the river so we get to spend a little more time on it than most. We have never been checked. Go below the 301 to the mouth and the PRFC checks you down there. Go above the WW bridge and the DC cops and the USCG checks you up there. Get in the dove field and they do come around. Never see them deer hunting unless I call them out for a trespasser.
Never been checked on Anna, James, Kerr, Gaston, or Smith Mountain.

So the increase is going for what??