Questions for the board after my 721 test drive today

[marlin]

All,

It was windy in Texas today, and I got to test drive three different boats that I'm trying to decide between. Depending where I was on the lake I could find light chop all the way to 4'+ rollers. This means I could really get a feel for the rough water ride of the three boats. I had a few questions about the 721 after riding and looking it over in person.

1) How do you keep water out of the front center compartment assuming you remove the turnstile which doesn't appeal to me. The two seat pole holders drain straight into the box.

2) How do you keep water out of the three boxes that act as the step down from the front deck. The water off the front deck must drain into them.

3) The back deck appears to drain straight into the rigging box. At least the water that washed up on the back deck was definitely draining onto the batteries on the demo boat I tested.

4) Is there a trick to reinstalling the removable console? Neither me nor the dealer could get it to line up right again.

5) It seemed to me that the port side front rod locker opens to the passenger rod locker (the one next to his seat). Is that correct?

6) It seems the main tackle locker is designed to store 7 3700 standard thickness boxes, 1 3700 series 3" thick box, and 10 3600 boxes with some addition space still open here and there for misc stuff. Is that what you guys are finding works in practice?

7) I test drove two Triton's today with 250 Pro XS motors. The Phoenix had an Etec 250 HO. The Triton's were significantly faster to plane out and had nearly zero bow rise. The Phoenix had significant bow rise and was relatively slow to plane out. To be honest the Etec felt weak compared to the ProXS. I'm wondering what the board experience is with their Phoenix boats? How much bow rise are you getting with a 250 ProXS? How about a 250 SHO? Stranger still the Etec was turning a 25 pitch Raker II prop and the Pro-XS's were both turning 26 pitch furies. I would have expected the smaller pitch prop to get better hole shot. This is something that surprised me a bit, but I'm frankly suspicious of the motor more than the boat.

8) Is there any option to upgrade the bow switches? What about the switches at the console? Has anyone done an after market upgrade? Also I got my arm caught in the kill switch lanyard twice while driving. Is there a trick to keep it out of the way with it attaching so high on the control panel?

If you are wondering I thought the Phoenix did well relative to the $14K more expensive Triton's. I have a positive opinion of the boat other than the concerns I raised above. I just want to see what people with more experience with the boat thoughts are on the questions. I have a series of concerns of a different nature on the Triton's. So far no boat is perfect, but all three of these boats we mighty nice. I would say right now I am having a tough time deciding which boat I like better.

[1blubyu]

1. there's a thread regarding the RTS or "Lazy Susan", but, nobody posted a solution. Everybody that posted "liked" the RTS.

2. If you did see water intrusion here, I would think a simple PermaTex or similar stick on gasket material would work fine.

3. dunno...yet...

4. That should be easy as falling off a log. Remove the Phoenix logo plate to expose the three alignment holes, and place the front of the console in there. Next, push the console firmly inward, then downward. You should be able to lock the latch and that's it. here's a video tutorial on the Phoenix website also.

5. I would not think so, but perhaps it does. But, there should not be any "co-mingling" since the front port locker has a rod butt organizer filling it, thus should negate access.

6. This storage area is mentioned in the "special Features" tutorial at the Phoenix website. Does not mention the larger 3" think 3700. He does add that a couple of line boxes can ride along either side. I suspect a spinnerbait box would do nicely also.

7. there are tons of 721/Merc owners here. A few Etec guys too. They might have some ideas to shed light on this. Sounds like the Phoenix/ETEC might have simply bee propped incorrectly.

8. of course there's an option. But you might have to be the pioneering "imagineer"

[Rocky Top]

Unless it was a new 2011 Etec with the new gearcase, it will be hard to prop for hole shot.

[Scott McGehee]

1. Can't answer that one, since I've left the turntable in on mine. I didn't think I'd like it but I do.

2. I've had my boat out in some very impressive storms and never gotten any water in those boxes from rain. I haven't found a wave yet big enough to come over the bow.

3. Every boat I've ever had let water drain into the rigging area, after all the bilge is also there, so even if you didn't have water draining in, you'd get splash in the area during rough water.

4. don't have one but every one I've seen put in worked fine.

5. Yes it does open into the pass. rod box.

6. the bungee cords there keep any boxes I've put on the sides in place. I pretty much put anything that's not in the 3700 up there without any problems.

7. The hole shot with a Merc. is fantastic and I haven't been in one with an Etec.

8. The boat I ran before Phoenix had push button switches at the bow and they were hard to work with your foot. I like the toggle switch on the trim for this reason. I'm sure you could change it if you wanted to. The same goes for the switches at the console. I've had boats with the fancy touch pads and I carried a spare touch pad because they went out so often. I haven't had any problems with the Phoenix.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[marlin]

Thanks guys!

I knew I could count on this group for answers.

I think I need to find a Phoenix with a 250 Pro-XS to test drive. I don't want to color my opinion because of the Etec. I figured there was no way the difference in hole shot was just down to the boat hull differences.

I 'll go hunt up the thread on how to keep water out of the front boxes. The closest dealer is 3.5 hours away, so its hard for me to just drop by and look again.

I was thinking of adding my own gasket to the lid of every box including the three on the step down. I figured this would help keep the main boxes dry and help a lot with the three lower boxes. I just wanted to tap the combined wisdom of the board to see what peoples experience was. If anyone has done this what trim size did you use?

I have never owned a boat that drains into the rigging box like this before. I agree it is open to the bilge, but yesterday the water was running in on top of the batteries and the battery charger on the demo boat I was looking at. In general that didn't seem like a good idea. I suspect I could channel most of the water away with some mods.

I am surprised that the rubber covered trim toggle is considered foot friendly. That is exactly my concern. I agree the bow panel switches are easy to fix after purchase. I just wanted to figure out if there was a factory option to upgrade them. The Phoenix option prices are so reasonable, I'd just let them do it for me if there was an option.

I think the main tackle organizer should work well. I just wanted to verify I was reading the amount of storage correctly. It looked to me like only one standard thickness 3700 would fit between each of the white separators. I was thinking I could get a lot more storage by taking every other one out and still have easy draw access. I think three boxes would fit between each of the remaining white separators then. That would allow me to store 9 3700 boxes, a thick 3700 box, and the 10 3600 boxes on the side. I'd still have room for some additional odd size boxes as well. Yes, I am a tackle ho if you haven't guessed already. I brought my Falcon FTO boxes with me and they definitely don't work well with the setup of the box as it stands, unless I missed a trick.

I was asking about the pass through between rod boxes to confirm my memory. Getting old is hard.



Modified by marlin at 9:11 AM 3/6/2011

[1blubyu]

Marlin, that sucks about the Falcon FTO not working well, I love my FTOs.

I did a keyword search for the word "leak" just in the Phoenix forum and it turned up NOTHING!

[Rocky Top]

I think most bass boats drain water into the bilge. A Ranger Z520 has a quarter inch lip that would funnel a light mist to the rear of the opening if the boat were perfectly level in the water. Problem is it has 2 small holes in each rear corner, that if by miracle they are not stopped up with dirt, and trash drain (you guessed it) into the bilge area. The Ranger also has a lip that prevents it from running into the splashwell. The Triton has no lip to prevent water from running in the splashwell like the Phoenix, but it has a vent in the splashwell that allows rain, and backwash into the bilge area.

[jjtriton]

Marlin, I do not see how the Triton was 14K more than the Phoenix unless the Phoenix was a dealer demo. Or you are comparing different models.

[marlin]

On the Triton I sold a couple years ago, it definitely had a lip that kept most of the water out. I will admit that if I came off plane hard and back washed then it would get a little water into the rigging box, but not much. This was water that was just running in a steady stream into the rigging box of the Phoenix while the lid was open and the boat was level. I'm asking to just try to gain perspective.

On the price difference in the Triton and the Phoenix, they were definitely $14K apart for the almost the same configuration. I think the configuration difference will turn out to be less than a $500 delta and I'm getting that clarified right now. I also suspect their is room to negotiate on the Triton, but I don't know how much. For now I am just listening to the prices they are quoting. I am comparing a Phoenix 721 to a Triton 21HP. Both are 2011 year models ordered from the factory. I have already factored in the $4K rebates on the Triton as well. I am giving the nearest dealers for both boats first shot. I will check prices with a couple other dealers before buying either way, but if the original dealers are close I will go with "local" because they are working with me. I figure reasonably close is something like a $500 difference maximum. That seems like a fair bonus for working with me.

[SHOboat719]

[quote=marlin]I 'll go hunt up the thread on how to keep water out of the front boxes. <br /><br />
quote]
Marlin,
I know it looks like the seat pedestal holes drain directly into your storage area but they actually dont. The top of the Lazy Susan is concave so all water that enter through the holes gets funnelled to the center hole of the LS and then down to the bilge area. Several have removed the carousel and had to do some modifications as the funnel is now gone. Ed Davis (EdDavisKY) was probably one of the first and advises that if you contact the factory they can omit it at build time for you.
Hope that helps with that question.

More info
http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=623803

[marlin]

Edowell,

Thanks for the response. Yeah, I figured out how the carousel drainage worked while looking. That's why I was asking. I don't much care for the carousel concept. The dealer told me the carousel can be omitted at the factory, but didn't know what they did to solve the drainage issue. I am hoping they aren't thinking to just run a tube from the bottom of the pedestals down to the drain in the middle of the flow. That would get in the way of the storage. Do you know if how the solve the drainage if the carousel is omitted? I've already started "designing" a solution, but I like to tap the board wisdom as a starting point.

My "solution" is to just build the solution Triton uses. It is easy enough. It would leave a tube running on the top, front and bottom of the box, but that's shouldn't be too much of an issue. I can attach the tube with little adhesive pads and zip ties. Still there may be better ideas already in place including maybe a factor solution.

[EdDavisKY]

Marlin the factory used pedestal drains and runs the tubing out the front (near Trolling motor pedal well) for draining. Jeff sent me the parts and that is the way I ran mine after taking my carousel out. But I still had to use duct tape to cover the big hole in the bottom of the compartment. All that is taken care of from the factory if ordered without the carousel....I know this due to my rig on order is coming without the carousel.

[nightbasser]

Also compare raw materials used in building the boats marlin as there really is no comparison

[marlin]

Nightbasser,

I agree the Phoenix materials choice is first rate.

Ed,

Thanks, that is critical info. I didn't realize the hole was large.

[nikldac]

Marlin...regarding the Etec w/Raker prop. I just traded in a Stratos 201 XL w/225 Etec and at 69 mph, that front end would chine walk so bad it would make you pucker the seats. Was advised to replace it with a 27p Tempest Plus. Night and day difference. It wasn't the fastest coming out of the hole, but wasn't bad, either. The handling on WOT was the biggest change it made.

Jr has a nice 2007 Stratos 201 xl w/225 Etec HO w/Tempest 27p and only 127 hours on it if you know anyone looking for a nice Stratos. I traded it to Jr for a 721 w/250 Yamaha SHO.

Ernie

[DerekG]

Mine is a 721 PROXP witha 250 Proxs..run a 26 fury, its been great coming out of the hole.. maybe the demo with the e-tec was just not set-up right..
fastest has been 78.6 mph and rgularly run 76-77 by myself..
havent had any problems with water, the drainage system channels built into the fiberglass have been great... gotten moisture in the step- up compartments when fishing a full day in the rain, and trust me i fish in all weather...
I didnt think i would like the lazy susan either but i have grown to really like it.. it was just a matter of re- organization and now i am more effecient than ever... it has more than enough storage for the other junk i carry around..
Hope this helps

[Hickory Legend]

Cant say for the E tech, I have a Honda and my hole shot is good. The 3 compartments and all others have a rise to keep the water out never had any water issue except the live wells, not enough BIG fish. LOL
There is also troughs that the water runs down to stay out of all compartments.
Best boat I have ever fished out of and I have fished out of most.

721 Pro XP

[marlin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by 721 Pro XP &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">The 3 compartments and all others have a rise to keep the water out never had any water issue except the live wells, not enough BIG fish. LOL
There is also troughs that the water runs down to stay out of all compartments.
721 Pro XP</td></tr></table>

Are you saying your 721 has a raised lip to keep the water out of the ice chest and two small "glove boxes" on the lower level just aft of the front deck? That would be good news to hear they changed this.

[marlin]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by DerekG &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Mine is a 721 PROXP witha 250 Proxs..run a 26 fury, its been great coming out of the hole.. maybe the demo with the e-tec was just not set-up right..
fastest has been 78.6 mph and rgularly run 76-77 by myself..
havent had any problems with water, the drainage system channels built into the fiberglass have been great... gotten moisture in the step- up compartments when fishing a full day in the rain, and trust me i fish in all weather...
I didnt think i would like the lazy susan either but i have grown to really like it.. it was just a matter of re- organization and now i am more effecient than ever... it has more than enough storage for the other junk i carry around..
Hope this helps</td></tr></table>

Derek,

How much moisture? Do you think you could have stopped it with the standard round gaskets common on bass boats? I'm guessing yes, since you said moisture and not water. I too fish a lot in the rain (if you don't like the weather in Texas just wait a few minutes).

Have you ridden in a Triton or an Allison XB21? I'd love to know if you can compare the hole shot to one of those boats. I don't expect the Phoenix to be as good as those are the best in the industry to my experience. I'm asking because I really think the setup/Etec is the issue, but I'm hoping to verify. I'm leaning very much toward going with a 721, but I can't find any around me to test drive other than the demo boat I drove 3.5 hours to see. There just isn't a large Phoenix dealership network in TX yet. (Only four dealers all in the north part of the state).

[1blubyu]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by marlin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

Derek,

How much moisture? Do you think you could have stopped it with the standard round gaskets common on bass boats? I'm guessing yes, since you said moisture and not water. I too fish a lot in the rain (if you don't like the weather in Texas just wait a few minutes).

Have you ridden in a Triton or an Allison XB21? I'd love to know if you can compare the hole shot to one of those boats. I don't expect the Phoenix to be as good as those are the best in the industry to my experience. I'm asking because I really think the setup/Etec is the issue, but I'm hoping to verify. I'm leaning very much toward going with a 721, but I can't find any around me to test drive other than the demo boat I drove 3.5 hours to see. There just isn't a large Phoenix dealership network in TX yet. (Only four dealers all in the north part of the state).

</td></tr></table>

I'm not Derek, but WTH! I know a couple of guys that left their Tritons in Favor of the 721. Actually ridden in one's Triton, then his Phoenix. Phoenix was aces ALL around. Neither of them have any interest in going back to Triton.

It might be worth while to go see Marty in Arkansas...