Someone tell me if you have heard about this

[Thefisherman64]

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=554620

Hope it is just a rumor. I enjoy the thought of eventually owning a Phoenix boat, but for now I like the thought of having a BEE, produced by Phoenix.

[charliecfh]

Yeah, that isn't true...I was at the plant yesterday and asked how Bee Line is doing and was told there are currently no orders for any Bees. Apparently they haven't had a Bee order in awhile. I guess most people would pass on a Bee when they could get a comparably sized Phoenix for just a little more money.

I'm sure they will quit making Bee Line when the molds wear out.

[Jason Phillips]

They only build the Bee's if someone orders one. They are not built for dealership inventories. The goal of Phoenix was never to build Bee's forever. That was a way for them to begin building boats quickly, get some product on the market and also get some cash flow. When I toured the plant several months ago there was one Bee in the process of being built compared to 10+ Phoenix boats.

As was said, there will not be any money spent on those molds. Once they are worn out, they will no longer be used. To repair or replace molds takes a lot of money. So, it is not practical to spend a lot of money on molds for a boat that has very little margin in it.

The direction of the company has been and is focused on building the Phoenix line of boats.

[marty92xrd]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Jason Phillips &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">They only build the Bee's if someone orders one. They are not built for dealership inventories. The goal of Phoenix was never to build Bee's forever. That was a way for them to begin building boats quickly, get some product on the market and also get some cash flow. When I toured the plant several months ago there was one Bee in the process of being built compared to 10+ Phoenix boats.

As was said, there will not be any money spent on those molds. Once they are worn out, they will no longer be used. To repair or replace molds takes a lot of money. So, it is not practical to spend a lot of money on molds for a boat that has very little margin in it.

The direction of the company has been and is focused on building the Phoenix line of boats.</td></tr></table>


Word for word, Jason speaks the truth. Its just not going to be feasible to order a BeeLine in the future. For just a little money difference the customer can upgrade to a Phoenix and have a MUCH more modern boat. The molds are nearing 20 years old, and its getting to the point that they will have to be reworked. It costs a fortune to work a mold and basically they would never see a return on it.

[JoeBro44]

I like my Bee! Everyone talking about them like they are the redheaded step child

[ducttape]

I know the feeling. I have a 2000 Bumble Bee currently. If I every decide to get a new boat, it will definitely be a phoenix without a doubt.

[rixfishin]

Another bad decision by a bass boat company, get your company up and coming and get some cash flow then slowly abandon the brand that got you started... I am still at least a year away from being able to buy my next boat... family finances come first... but I had really liked all I had heard about the Beeline and finally got to see one about a month ago... so I guess I will have to buy a used Bee when the time comes... and I will NOT buy a Phoenix...and I know what some of you will say Phoenix is a better boat with all the bells and whistles well I don't need flash and bells and whistles... I just want a solid boat that I can use as a tool to get the job done at an affordable price. And chances are you will never get a Phoenix rigged out for the same price you could a Bee.

Sure the Phoenix line will be around for many years to come and will be a successful company... But it stinks that they bought the Beeline to get there foot in the door and then stop production...just my opinion here and since there are no shortage of opinions on these boards... I figure I am allowed... sure I have stirred the pot but this whole deal just bugs me. So I will be contacting folks in a year or so to buy a Bee OR I will look to another brand. Beeline is a sharp looking boat. This is really a shame... wish someone else would come along and buy the molds and do what needs to be done because I bet on a smaller scale with the right folks...this brand would still sell if it was not put on the back burner due to the Phoenix line.

[Ray Co. Hank]

rix,

if the orders aren't there to support the refab investment of the Beeline molds, and clearly they are not, it would be financial suicide to keep them afloat. I'm not sure if I would call that "another bad decision by a bass boat company". I understand you like the hull and want a new one in at some point in the future. But if it don't make cents, it don't make sense! What ever you do, don't ride in the Phoenix cause you might end up eating your words! J/K, Bees are great boats but sales drive production and thats the bottom line. The company now has in production something that is uniquely theirs, the Bee isnt. What they now have is very good something! Im not quite getin the look at another brand cause they dont make your Bee thing? That's like saying McDonald's quit making the dbl cheeseburger so your not gunna buy the Quaterpounder!

[rixfishin]

I get what your saying... I really do... but in all honesty from what's being said... Phoenix boats would not really be where it's at IF they hadn't got there foot in the door with the Beeline... right? I am not knocking Phoenix they are sharp looking boats and are selling like mad from what's being said on this board... I just hate to see another brand with a good rep be put aside because of what is believed to be a newer and better boat. Business is business and if they at Phoenix think it's what they need to do that's there call... but I don't have to like it... I am sure when the time comes I will be able to find a Bee if I look hard enough... heck one of these present Bee owners maybe looking to sell there's to buy Phoenix... I will just wait and see what's out there. Again not knocking anybody elses choice here... just saying I wish a different route could be taken.

[Ray Co. Hank]

I gotcha rix, I gotcha............

[Jason Phillips]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by rixfishin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">But it stinks that they bought the Beeline to get there foot in the door and then stop production...just my opinion here and since there are no shortage of opinions on these boards... I figure I am allowed... sure I have stirred the pot but this whole deal just bugs me. So I will be contacting folks in a year or so to buy a Bee OR I will look to another brand. Beeline is a sharp looking boat. This is really a shame... wish someone else would come along and buy the molds and do what needs to be done because I bet on a smaller scale with the right folks...this brand would still sell if it was not put on the back burner due to the Phoenix line. </td></tr></table>

I'm sure I'll have something else to say later but I'll chime in right quick while I have a minute.... You have the wrong idea about how the Phoenix company started. Bumble Bee went out of business...bankrupt...closed the doors. When Gary, Hank, and Teresa decided to start their own company they had to decide whether to build a new building or find a building already in place. Here sits an empty building for sale that at one time was used to produce boats. They checked it out, and purchased it to build Phoenix boats (never intending to build anything but Phoenix boats). Now, laying around are the old molds from when Bumble Bee was in production. So, while Engineer Greg is designing the new Phoenix line of boats, wouldn't it be something if we could generate some cash flow without much effort? Well, those old molds are laying around. Let's see what it would take to make some old Bee's. Guess what. They sold some. But, the manufacturing process to build the Bee's is very old. And to update the Bee into a modern boat (just turning it into modular consoles for instance) would be a very expensive venture. The profit from selling the Bee's is not there either. It is a less expensive boat for the consumer, but a less profitable boat for the manufacturer.

So, to keep building a boat that isn't the goal of the company, that doesn't make a profit for the company, and takes time away from the line of boats that is the vision of the company, would not be beneficial.

I've fished out of a lot of Bumble Bee's and liked the boats. But, the first time I went out in a Phoenix I saw the difference. Some love the Bee's. Some love Blazers and Bullets. I'm just not one of them. I like them fine, but love the bigger, better, faster ride of the Phoenix.

Phoenix didn't buy Bumble Bee. They bought the building and Bumble Bee just happened to come with it.

[marty92xrd]

Rix, I think you are misunderstanding what we are trying to say. Phoenix IS NOT pulling the BeeLine products. The biggest problem is that there are NO orders for them, and havent been for quiet sometime. If you want to order one, they will build it if thats what you want.

What we are saying though that the molds are getting close to being unusable. Once they do get to where they cant use them anymore (quality issues), they wont spend the many 10's of thousands dollars to rework the molds. That would be like Mercury setting up an entire production line to build 1976 150 inline 6 cylinders (tower of power), they would never see the return on the investment because nobody would order one.

Dont get me wrong, I love the Bee's. I think they are a wonderful rig and I have sold quiet a few of them and everyone loves them. And honestly, we have 1 286 BeeLine in stock and we cant get rid of it. I havent had a call on one in quiet sometime. Last year, we were getting calls asking about them everyday.

[rixfishin]

Ok guys I understand... just a shame to see the Bee's fall by the wayside but I do have a clearer picture of why it has come to this... like I said I will just see what's out there when the time comes to buy... and I may contact one of the several guys I have talked to about buying one of there's... if they will part with it?? Anyway thanks for the info... I appreciate it.

[Jason Phillips]

Hope we did shine just a little light on it. Really, if the sales were there, or the possibility of sales that would be profitable, they would look at keeping them around. Like was said, they are good boats, just behind on today's standards of manufacturing and performance.

[rixfishin]

I am curious though... I have had a 95 Ranger 488 vs and a 97 Ranger R72, the 488 was the last glass boat I had (kids tuition and a tough economy forced me to sell)... why are the Bee's considered behind in todays standards of manufacture and performance?? Is it because hull designs have changed... the Rangers I had were good solid boats... but I really have been looking at every brand out there and price wise I don't think any other brand can touch the Beeline if you get one rigged to the hilt... but I understand if the demand isn't there...it just isn't... but what has changed so much that they are considered behind in todays market. Again just curious...Thanks.

[Jason Phillips]

The biggest thing is what I mentioned above....the floating console is found on almost every boat built now by major players. It adds lots of floor space and also allows for single and dual consoles to be built from the same top cap molds. Consoles can be built, assembled, wired, etc. seperately and at different times from the top caps and hulls and then simply installed (think of it as plug and play wiring--how easy that is versus having to always cut and splice).

Another thing is the type of boat. The Bee is a "skinny deck" boat. Nowadays with boats having 93", 95", 96" beams, a "skinny" boat is harder to sell. Especially when the wide body boats run the same speeds with so much more room and comfort. Even Blazer has now come out with a wide body boat. It's just the way the market has moved. There are still some narrow boats being built, but they are more specialized and have a specific audience that wants them.

I'm sure that Jeff Hartung at the plant would be happy to answer the specific questions you may have about the difference in the process, but I can tell you that from touring the plant and looking at both molds and both boats being built, it was clear to see how much more complex the Bee was to build. The same types of materials are used on both boats, but the amount of corners, humps, holes, etc. required to lay up a Bee takes a lot more time. Just wiring the boats is more complicated than with a Phoenix. You have to remember, those boats were really unchanged for so many years. When they were designed, very little time was spent engineering how to run wires so that they can be accessed easy, or taking into consideration how much trouble it would be to get in the bilge area to change a pump, or leaving enough room in the rear to place 4 batteries, a hydraulic jackplate pump, a power pole pump, oil reservoir, and a spare prop holder.

[JoeBro44]

Haters! I love my Bee!!! Seriously though. The Phoenix's are a BEAUTIFUL boat. But I'll always be partial to the Bee. Without them I never would've been able to put myself in a new boat! Love the performance too . I can recall about 8 or 9 years ago on Pool 13 of the Mississippi was the first time I saw what was then the BumbleBee. Went flying through as we were fishing some backwaters. Looked absolutely awesome. Always had that in the back of my mind. When the time came to start looking at boats I couldn't help but think how much I liked the looks of that BumbleBee. Just happened to be a new BeeLine available when the time came and the rest is "history" I love my Bee!!!

[JoePA]

As far as consoles go...i like the Bee's style console so much better than the new modular style. The is just me but I do think the Bee is a better lookign boat than the phoenix. The Phoenix is a great looking boat but it looks just like a Stratos.

Once agian not here to stir pots in any way but jsut because ther are no orders for Bee's doesn't mean they won't sell.

As far as price what's the price difference between a 2100 bee and a 721? Probably 10 to 12 grand......that's ALOT of money!

[Flipping57]

I know this will piss the Bee lovers off but, the Bumble Bee was allways in the lower price range of bass boats. If it was such a great boat and it was in the lower price range the sales would have been good enough that the factory would have never closed in the first place.

[marty92xrd]

Number of boats that were being sold didnt have much to do with why they went out of business. Heck, look what happened to Genmar, they were still selling boats werent they? Might not have been near as many as before but look at what brands they had under them.