My take on the PIV-225 debate...

[shermsmarine]

I have read all the comments on the original post and want to tell you what I have found here....So here's my .02 worth
1st the 200 ProXS has a MAP (Manufactures Advertised Price) of $13,460.00
The 225ProXS has a MAP of $16,125.00 so right off you increase the cost by $2,665.00 The 250ProXS has a MAP of $17,185.00 a increase of $1,060.00 over the 225ProXS so the jump is more than double between the 200 to 225 than it is the 225 to 250...Ok now you take current prices on each boat.. The PIV advantage base package with a 200ProXS is $40,555.00 so if you add the 225ProXS difference you would increase that base cost to around $43,220.00 at the same time a Cougar Advantage 225ProXS base is $44,795.00 and you can buy the Cougar Advantage Show Special for $42,995.00 Granted these prices don't include any upgrades or dealer freight, prep etc. but the thing is that those charges are basicly the same for either model.. So with that being said who is willing to pay as much if not more for a PIV than they are a Cougar Advantage both equip with a 225ProXS??? I haven't found many that are...

[1stinLA]

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Yep, well said.

[Treg]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by shermsmarine &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">So with that being said who is willing to pay as much if not more for a PIV than they are a Cougar Advantage both equip with a 225ProXS??? I haven't found many that are...</td></tr></table>

Apparently Someone ~ or the thread wouldn't be 3 pages long? Just an outside observation.

I have no dog in that fight once so ever but I can completely understand and appericate the comment from the guy about limited garage space. Personally I would love to have the Premium boat options that the 20 footes have but my garage situation puts me in a Sabre only. Maybe a PII if I hit the angle just right. I'm actually perfectly fine with an 18' boat but I would be one of the first in line to pay more money then a PII for an premium 18' boat like an Eyra or Couger.

I've met Rick 3 times now and he's a pretty smart guy no doubt. I'm sure he has his reason and most of us are not on his level to challenge those reasons (certainly not me) but I do certainly understand that others have their wants.

I do not understand the switching Manufactures though, you want a faster BassCat so your going to buy a slower ~ (insert brand here)?

[sdfd504]

I agree on the pricing differences, but when you have a garage that will barely hold a PIV without some work then the extra $$$ wouldn't matter. The choice would be nice just like on the Eyra, it runs great with a 200hp but you have the option for a 300 if wanted.

[shermsmarine]

I understand the limited garage space it is a major issue for many and has forced many to smaller boats than they want..What I have found though is that most that have this issue I deal with are limited to less than the 21'8"-22' needed for even the PIV many I deal with have less than 21' to work with. I think a home builder that builds a garage only 19 or 20' deep needs his butt kicked but that's another story.. Anyway back to the point..It all boils down to how many are actually willing to spend the extra $2,665.00 for the 225ProXS to maybe gain 2-4 mph when you can save the $2,665.00 buy a P II w/ 200ProXS and outrun the majority if not all of those 225 rigs and fit into a 21'7" garage..

[Kingpin]

I have continued to come back to this thread a few times a week to find out what this weeks story is. If I may. Why is money even being brought up? Is anyone aware of new boat prices? Is $2500.00 really going to make a difference. Second question? Why are people still bringing up the cougar for X amount of money more, we are talking about the Pantera here. We all have enough sense to look at other models in the lineup and figure out what will work for each of our situations regardless of what they are. Three, I have yet to hear of a good reason why a 225 cant be installed. Hell, give people an option for a 250. If Basscat doesnt want to do it, then say, hey we dont want to do it, end of conversation and we all go on our merry way. Heres a question for anyone that is a Basscat dealer or someone at the company. If the Pantera ? had the option of a 225 and every Pantera you sold had a 200 on it, how has the company lost? If you sell one more boat because of the 225, you have just gained business. Can the boat handle it? Now I could be in left field here but unless major reinforcement is neccessary, I just dont see why it isnt being done. Again just shooting my mouth off. G

[Bass Cat Boats]

The Pantera IV is not large enough to rate a 225 as is. It was built as large as could be and within the maximum 200 range on horsepower.

[richs]

I predict that the PV will be rated for a 225.

I see both sides of this. The PIV is not a big seller as noted by BCB's. I do believe that if it had a 225 it would be more of a contender for these reasons:

1) Other companies have 19'ers with 225 rating. On paper the PIV does not look as good with the 200 rating. I completely understand that it is better even with a 200 but look at it from an outsiders point of view.

2) Garage Space as talked about in the previous posts

3) EGO- sorry folks but some guys would not be seen running a 200. The 225 is an ego booster and that is why they will pay the $2660. When I had my PII I had a lot of guys comment "It only has a 200?".

4) Towing vehicle. I know for fact that a lot of guys like towing with a mid sized vehicle. The 19'er gives you that illusion. I stil pull my Puma with my Trailblazer no problem but guys cringe when I tell them I am pulling a 20'er with it.

5) The 225 is a superior motor compared to the 200 as far as the internals go from my undertanding and has a higher RPM limit. Well worth the money if that is all true.

Right or wrong the people I talk to think this way. Make a PV with the new striping and a 225 rating and lighted handrail option and my opinion is it outsells the PIV hands down. I am not qualified to even have an opinion on this matter so take it with a grain of salt.

[Bama96]

Thanks Sherm. We had one thread just about put to bed and you had to go and start another.

[Eyra1]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Bass Cat Boats &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">The Pantera IV is not large enough to rate a 225 as is. It was built as large as could be and within the maximum 200 range on horsepower. </td></tr></table>

I agree Chet! The statement above should be taken as "end of conversation" for those wanting the official opinion.
Dang, just extended the thread (again)

[menoceros]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Kingpin &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I have continued to come back to this thread a few times a week to find out what this weeks story is. If I may. Why is money even being brought up? Is anyone aware of new boat prices? Is $2500.00 really going to make a difference. Second question? Why are people still bringing up the cougar for X amount of money more, we are talking about the Pantera here. We all have enough sense to look at other models in the lineup and figure out what will work for each of our situations regardless of what they are. Three, I have yet to hear of a good reason why a 225 cant be installed. Hell, give people an option for a 250. If Basscat doesnt want to do it, then say, hey we dont want to do it, end of conversation and we all go on our merry way. Heres a question for anyone that is a Basscat dealer or someone at the company. If the Pantera ? had the option of a 225 and every Pantera you sold had a 200 on it, how has the company lost? If you sell one more boat because of the 225, you have just gained business. Can the boat handle it? Now I could be in left field here but unless major reinforcement is neccessary, I just dont see why it isnt being done. Again just shooting my mouth off. G</td></tr></table>

Price is exactly the point. When looking at boats, the bottom line is price for value. Do I want a 225 or a powerpole and a SI depthfinder.
Our thirst for new better options is responsible for a lot of the increase in TOTAL boat price. We want all the goodies, but squeal when asked to pay for them. Go to the Nitro website and look at the base price, then option the boat the way most of us would like to have it and suddenly the price is 30% higher. The 25,000 18'er becomes a 32,000 boat.
BCB has consistantly stated on here that their point is always price point and value for our dollars. It's why they don't reccomend a 175 on the sabre because it shoves it into the price range of the P Classic. Thats what Sherm is saying. Why would I buy a PIV if I could have a Cougar for only a little more?

[richs]

After putting more thought into this I have a simple question to ask from a different perspective. BCB's say the PIV might be discontinued due to lack of sales. Something is wrong that the boat is not selling. For those that agree the PIV does not need the 225 rating how would you CHANGE it to make it more of a contender? The fact is if the boat were perfect it would sell. As it sits currently with the 200 rating it is on the verge of being obsolete.

Sherm, I would love to hear your take on the solution.

[BassCatCowboy]

I also look at it like this. All other manufactures have a boat in the same size range as the PIV and they have a 225 rating to me that is lost sales. the z119 from ranger 225 rated . the triton x19 225 rated the phoenix 719 225 rated. see where I am going. Bass Cat does not have a 198 ft 225 rated boat. I know they have a very good reason. And this is just my observation looking from the outside. I love my PIV with a 200. I really cant see geting 3 more MPH for almost 3 grand. But to each its own. But the option is not there.

[Cape Fear]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Bass Cat Boats &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">The Pantera IV is not large enough to rate a 225 as is. It was built as large as could be and within the maximum 200 range on horsepower. </td></tr></table>

I am guessing that the horsepower rating has something to do with the coast guard and some kind of formula. If you look at the specs on the Classic, P2 and PIV, the PIV is the longest in <u>length</u>, widest in <u>beam</u> and <u>weighs</u> the most. They all have a 200hp max. rating. Which one(s) of the specs would have to change in order for the PIV to have a higher hp rating? With this being said I am neither for nor against the current rating of the PIV. If that was the case I would have never bought mine. It is what it is.

[Treg]

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by BassCatCowboy &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I also look at it like this. All other manufactures have a boat in the same size range as the PIV and they have a 225 rating to me that is lost sales. the z119 from ranger 225 rated . the triton x19 225 rated the phoenix 719 225 rated.</td></tr></table>

My Dad would say, If all other manufactures jumped off a bridge, should BassCat do that too?

If you go in this direction You lose all credibility with the limited garage length argument.

Z119 Length on Trailer with Swing Away Tongue ~ 22' 7"
Alpha 199 Length on Trailer w/Swing Away Tongue ~ 22' 10"
Phoenix doesnt list this spec but the 719 is longer then a P4


BassCat Eyra is 22' 5" with a 250 hp rating and 300 hp option. If speed is what you want...

Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too.


BassCat said they went to the max length they could to keep it at 200 and less. It means they gotta go longer or wider to get the 225. Which means a new hull mold would be needed, right? Not like they can just print new stickers and start slapping 225's on them. Thats how I understand what they said, Am I wrong?

[Bass Commander]

Ive never understood the debate. Buy a Pantera with a 200 Yamaha and you can easily end up with over 225 horses...

The difference between a 200 and 225 in speed is negligible but I certainly understand the desire for performance...

[fishin4bass]

This is my .02 worth.I own a PIV-200PRO XS.How many of you feel that you are going to catch more fish,or get a better ride,have a better fishing platform,or have more storage buy building this boat rated for a 225.IMHO this boat is the perfect balance just as it is.Okay so you get a couple more MPH.A well set up PIV with a 200 will run 70-71,and a solid 68-69 with a full load.The old more is better may be why sales are down on this model,many think that having that 250 on the back of the cowling means that you are a serious tournament bass fisherman,RIGHT! The only thing on this rig that could use a bit of improvement would be the cooler.It would be a shame to see this model go away.But if it doe's those of us who own one would only appreciate it that much more.

[shermsmarine]

This subject is not as simple as makeing the PIV a 225 rated boat and it will sell... As BCB said it isn't a large enough boat to rate for 225 HP rated by the US Coast Guard.. The PIV is 19' 5" w/ 94" beam.. All of the others you guys have mentioned are BIGGER. R's z119 is 19'6" x 95" and the Toon x19 is 19'9" x 96" while the P 719 is 19'8"x 96" so all of them will require more garage space and so for BCB to build a 225 rated PIV would require making it a BIGGER Boat so how is that going to help the limited garage space issue? Size is a issue for many but the bottom line COST is the factor for the majority and to build a bigger PIV so it can rate 225 is not going to help with either..