HVAC Guy's Step Inside.

[Jdub_176]

My wife and I were going to install a new AC/Heat pump unit pretty soon. I know about the freon change over. My hvac guy said the suppliers can't get a 3.5 ton unit in the old freon because of the manufactures are already switching the new units to the new freon 454B. I told no him biggie as I had planned on upgrading to the new freon. He then told me that they can't get the new freon either and that the new units are coming precharged with freon and a 15ft leader line. The problem for me is I need at least 50ft of leader line to get to where my furnace as my furnace sit in the middle of my house. Have any of you all run in to this problem?
The reason we are replacing the unit is because in the last 4 years I have had to put between $300-$1000 a year to keep it running and will have to replace the coils on the inside unit to keep it running which is like $1500. I'm tire of dumping money into a dying system. Not mention the ac compressor has been run out of freon twice as the inside coils are rusted out. The system is (a heil) is only 12.5 years old, and I have already replace the fan motor on the air exchanger and compressor, not to mention other issues. Last summer my hvac guy put stop leak in the system to get it through last summer as week couldn't afford a new system.
Now for the million dollar question. Do I replace the coil in the inside unit ($1500) know the system as been run dry of freon twice and the compressor may not have much life left in it, or do I pray that the stop leak will hold for another season and hope the supply chain clears up with what the government has caused?

[Rider99XX]

New everything, inside and out if that's doable. You'll be set for a long time.

I did that about 3 years ago and could not be happier.

[Perchpro]

I think you misunderstood what they meant by pre charged with a 15ft leader line. The units come with enough refrigerant for 15ft of lineset. More can be added for any size lineset.

[Rider99XX]

I think you misunderstood what they meant by pre charged with a 15ft leader line. The units come with enough refrigerant for 15ft of lineset. More can be added for any size lineset.

That's correct.

[Jdub_176]

I think you misunderstood what they meant by pre charged with a 15ft leader line. The units come with enough refrigerant for 15ft of lineset. More can be added for any size lineset.

Yes, I get that, but what he is say is he can't get the new 454B freon as the suppliers can't get it, so if I install a new unit he won't be able to top it off as he can't get the new 454b freon.

[havacman]

Yes there are issues with the availability of R454B refrigerant currently. What distributors had on hand also sold at a much lower price than what the next shipment will cost is what is being said. It has put hvac companies in a spot because the government made them stop producing the R410A equipment and with the shortage on R454B it is causing more issues. Some manufacturers are using R32 refrigerant, while I understand that is very few you might can have that option but will depend upon what brand your HVAC company sells or has access to. I haven’t heard of any shortage on R32 but it wouldn’t surprise me if there is. Typical they mandate all this but they have planned very poorly for the change. I know a lot of refrigerant is made elsewhere where there are no restrictions on the manufacture process not sure how many manufacturers we have still here.

[Jdub_176]

I haven't asked about the r32 refrigerant, but he didn't mention it, so I'm guess the companies he sell don't use it. I will give him a shout out about the r32. I feel bad for you hvac installers as you will have to take the brunt of the customer complaints with not being able to get products.

[Every]

Time to get the vacuum pumps out and backyard science some R454B


7lbs r-32 + 3lbs 1234yf = 10lbs R454B
Don't do this unless you really now what your doing ;) which will probably point you in the direction of not doing it.

[Jeff Hahn]

Yes there are issues with the availability of R454B refrigerant currently. What distributors had on hand also sold at a much lower price than what the next shipment will cost is what is being said. It has put hvac companies in a spot because the government made them stop producing the R410A equipment and with the shortage on R454B it is causing more issues. Some manufacturers are using R32 refrigerant, while I understand that is very few you might can have that option but will depend upon what brand your HVAC company sells or has access to. I haven’t heard of any shortage on R32 but it wouldn’t surprise me if there is. Typical they mandate all this but they have planned very poorly for the change. I know a lot of refrigerant is made elsewhere where there are no restrictions on the manufacture process not sure how many manufacturers we have still here.

And, there we have the source of the problem.

[Jdub_176]

And, there we have the source of the problem.

Yep. And now the hvac companies will suffer the wrath of the very hot none patient customer because they have to charge more and can't get the parts they need. Leave it to uncle sam to make everyones life difficult.

[Rider99XX]

Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to screw things up.

[ProVle]

The local news trouble shooter had a story about a guy who signed a contract to "Lease" his HVAC system not own. At the end of the contract he will have paid over $33K. This is just a normal size house, nothing special.

[havacman]

Yep. And now the hvac companies will suffer the wrath of the very hot none patient customer because they have to charge more and can't get the parts they need. Leave it to uncle sam to make everyone’s life difficult.

Unfortunately just the top of the iceberg. There will no longer be just topping off a charge to get a customer by till you can return to find a leak. R454B units have a sensor that if it senses a refrigerant leak inside it shut everything off. (There already is reports that those sensors have had early failures)This means that the hvac company in the event of a refrigerant leak now has to find repair the leak before the unit can be put back in service. There are also numerous extra steps (time required) to purge and evacuate these new R454B systems. I can see some people not being able to afford refrigeration repairs if we stay on the current parts/material course we are following. Can you imagine how many less service repair calls can be ran in the hottest of summer months now.

[Jdub_176]

Unfortunately just the top of the iceberg. There will no longer be just topping off a charge to get a customer by till you can return to find a leak. R454B units have a sensor that if it senses a refrigerant leak inside it shut everything off. (There already is reports that those sensors have had early failures)This means that the hvac company in the event of a refrigerant leak now has to find repair the leak before the unit can be put back in service. There are also numerous extra steps (time required) to purge and evacuate these new R454B systems. I can see some people not being able to afford refrigeration repairs if we stay on the current parts/material course we are following. Can you imagine how many less service repair calls can be ran in the hottest of summer months now.

Yeah I was told that the reason for the new sensors is because the R454B freon is made with propane. This is the reason the leak has to be found before the system can be restarted. Maybe I am better off replacing the coils on my system and hope I can get a few more year out my piece of chit to let them get the bugs worked out of the new systems.

[havacman]

Yeah I was told that the reason for the new sensors is because the R454B freon is made with propane. This is the reason the leak has to be found before the system can be restarted. Maybe I am better off replacing the coils on my system and hope I can get a few more year out my piece of chit to let them get the bugs worked out of the new systems.

It’s blended in with other mixtures but it isn’t like exploding levels. They have to be careful about how much is there due to a house fire event and the danger of first responders to a house fire.

[Toypuller]

Most supply houses will sell a drum of 454B with the purchase of new equipment.

Trane has started to raise the precharge to compensate for longer line sets.

If your AC guy put stop leak in the system, find another AC guy.

[Bassin08]

Our A/C and furnace was installed in 2006 when our condo was built. I’ve had it serviced almost every year. I was thinking of replacing it this year. Is this a good or bad time to do that? Last fall he checked the Freon level and said it was at a like new level.

[BroWhoop]

IMHO, this is one of the absolute stupidest things the EPA/GOV has done!!!

[havacman]

IMHO, this is one of the absolute stupidest things the EPA/GOV has done!!!

That’s what happens when people who have no idea about the first thing or anything for that matter that they are making rules for. I definitely agree with that statement.

[havacman]

Our A/C and furnace was installed in 2006 when our condo was built. I’ve had it serviced almost every year. I was thinking of replacing it this year. Is this a good or bad time to do that? Last fall he checked the Freon level and said it was at a like new level.

Personally I would wait until the kinks get ironed out with the new refrigerants and units unless you are having trouble with them. 2006 is not too bad mine is 1994 models. I’m the if not broke don’t fix it till it breaks guy but I can fix it which I would probably do unless I developed a refrigerant leak that cannot be repaired. Mine is R22 as well. Most likely if you have had one without any major issues they will last a long while like vehicles. If they have a lot of miles and years without major issues you have a good one.