What is involved in changing out my three fuel pumps? Is it an easy process? How do you know if it is just the diaphrams? My dealer is 3 weeks behind, don't won't to wait that long.
Modified by vmax at 8:44 PM 6/16/2009
What is involved in changing out my three fuel pumps? Is it an easy process? How do you know if it is just the diaphrams? My dealer is 3 weeks behind, don't won't to wait that long.
Modified by vmax at 8:44 PM 6/16/2009
It could be just the diaphragms, but the pumps are so cheap you may as well just replace the whole pump and it will save you a ton of time.
I just did mine a couple weeks ago and they are a cinch to replace. You will have to loosen the main fuel pump assembly to get to the center pump, but it's no biggie.
Tony, where did you get your fuel pumps? Is that all I need to order, the fuel pump assembly?
Vmax,
I changed out the three low pressure fuel pumps, associated gaskets, fuel filter and bulb on my 2004 3.1 Vmax (225hp) tonight. It is definitely a straight forward job. I wouldn't wait for the dealer to do it. Each pump has a gasket that slides on over the bolts in between the pump and engine block. The only "trick" is to loosen the three bolts holding the high pressure assembly. If you loosen the bolts, without taking them out, you can move the assembly forward enough to access the middle fuel pump with a hand wrench.
I ordered the parts from http://www.boats.net. Here is the parts list and prices (for a 225, but I included them for reference):
1) 10-65L-24563-00-00 Fuel Filter Element, $23.92
2) 10-6E5-24410-03-00 Fuel Pump Assembly $ 37.46 (quantity of 3)
3) 10-650-24431-A0-00 Gasket for the fuel pumps $1.00 (quantity of 3)
4) 10-90465-11M10-00 Clamps (zip ties) $0.34 each (quantity of 6)
All this, not including shipping came out to $140.02.
Again, you can do this yourself. All you need is a 10mm socket and 10mm open box wrench (fuel pump bolts -2), a pair of cutters (to cut the zip ties), and flat head screw driver (helps with prying loose hoses, and for the clamp when I changed the bulb). After I was done installing everything, it started right up and idled nice. I turned it off for a few minutes, and it started up by just bumping the key (the way it used to). The lake test will be the ultimate check, but that will have to wait until Thursday. I hope this helps. Good luck!
Chris
Chris, thanks alot! Will there be any gas spilled from the 3 pumps during this process?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vmax »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chris, thanks alot! Will there be any gas spilled from the 3 pumps during this process?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very little. I kept the pumps upright when I took them off. To be on the safe side I put a bunch of paper towels below where I was working. Once I was finished I did a quick wipe up. I did change the fuel filter first though, so any pressure was out of the line(s).
Also, my model is VX225C, and the Yamaha service manual covers VX225C and VX200C. If that is not your model number, be sure to double check the part numbers on boats.net. They have really nice schematics to reference when you order your parts. Good luck, and hopefully your motor will be roaring soon!
Just placed my order, 1- fuel filter, 3-fuel pump assembly and 3-gaskets. I made sure I had the right model number. I'm ready to get it back to running right. Thanks Chris!
Hey Vmax,
I ran the boat for a couple hours at the lake Wednesday night, and then all day Thursday. Problem solved!The motor ran great. Good luck with your repair. I bet you will be happy with the results.
Chris
Chris, got my new pumps installed but i can't get the fuel primer bulb to pump any gas. Any suggestions? I want to fire it up but I don't think there is any fuel in the lines.
I got it to pump fuel by pointing the primer bulb upwards. Looks like I'm good to go.
Modified by vmax at 11:49 PM 6/22/2009
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vmax »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chris, got my new pumps installed but i can't get the fuel primer bulb to pump any gas. Any suggestions? I want to fire it up but I don't think there is any fuel in the lines.
I got it to pump fuel by pointing the primer bulb upwards. Looks like I'm good to go.
Modified by vmax at 11:49 PM 6/22/2009</TD></TR></TABLE>
When I installed the primer bulb, I only attached the fuel line from the tank. Then I gave it several pumps to build up the prime (waited till it spit gas) before attaching the other hose.
Let us know how it runs. Good luck
Here's an update to my fuel pump replacement:
Took boat out today, motor cranked on first turn. Wow what a difference! It's like I have a new motor. Motor ran strong all day. No cranking problems. If anybody is having problems with their fuel pumps, I highly recomend re-placing them. It's not that hard, took approx 2 hours. Best thing is I saved at least $150 by not taking it to the dealer and would have had to wait 3 weeks to have pumps installed.
Here is the parts list for a 2001 Yamaha 200 EFI, Model # VX200TLRZ, ordered from Boats.net:
(1) fuel filter--part # 10-65L-24563-00-00 $23.92
(3) fuel pump--part # 10-6E5-24410-03-00 $37.46 ea.
(3) gaskets--part # 10-650-24431-A0-00 $1.00 ea.
total $139.30 + $12.95 shipping= $152.25
You will also need 6 small zip ties to put on the hoses attached to the fuel pumps.
Excellent!!! Glad to hear the motor is running strong.
Some additional tips:
How to test if a low pressure fuel pump is faulty?
1. Pump primer bulb until it is hard. Once it is hard, keep squeezing it firmly for 20 seconds. If it slowly compresses, then fuel must be going somewhere and you have a leak. This is a good test you can do every trip out, before you start your engine
2. Unbolt each pump off the engine. 3.1 litre engnies have 3 pumps. These pumps mate to the engine and get crank case suction against them. Remember this spot where they mate. Unbolt each pump (2 bolts per pump) then squeeze the fuel bulb. If you see fuel leaking out the back of the pumps, this fuel will be going into the crank case through the hole I described.
You may also sometimes see a sheen of unburnt fuel on the water surface in glass calm conditions but don't count on it. Excess (more than usual) smoke, reduced power, poor running, rough idle, reduced WOT are all possible (but not always visible) symptoms of blown fuel pumps
Test 2 takes 10 minutes, do it at least once a year.
Does a leaking fuel pump matter?
Raw fuel is leaking into the crank case. This fuel has no oil mixed and "waters" down your fuel to oil ratio. On Ox66 engines, the engine detects that it is running rich. It then cuts down the amount of fuel it injects. This creates two problems. 1. You are now running on more raw fuel and less fuel/oil mix. i.e. even more watered down. 2. The fuel in the crank case is not distributed evenly so some cylinders have lots of fuel (but little oil) and some cylinders have little fuel AND little oil.
Two strokes rely on fuel and oil for lubrication.
Ox66 Yams are much more venerable to blowing up powerheads due to some lean cylinders and some lean on oil due to bad fuel pumps.
Check it regularly.
Can I rebuild them?
Yes BUT you need to be certain the plastic pump body is not warped. I don't know how to test for this as for the price saving, and knowing the risk, I didn't bother rebuilding.
What about preventative maintenance?
3.1 litre engines were known to eat low pressure fuel pumps. Replace them at least every 3 years. If you don't know when they were last done, do them now or if you don't have time, at least test them as above.
What about other engines?
These fuel pumps have been used in Yamahas for a LONG time. Bad pumps are bad for the running qualities and longevity of carb engines too, but maybe a little less bad than Ox66. Still test regularly and fix as necessary.
HPDI may also use the same pumps, I've not worked on them. They ignore the o2 sensor above 2500rpm so they are less prone to blowing up due to leaning themselves out due to a fuel pump problem BUT you are still running a bad fuel/oil ratio and rich running the engine. Test regualrly and fix as necessary.
I've always wondered why Yamaha Ox66 engines eat low pressure fuel pumps much faster than carby engines and I think I worked out the answer today. I went to add this to the fuel pump sticky after my other post but was unable, maybe a moderator can add this for me.
To strart a carby Yamaha, you have to prime the fuel system right up by squeezing the primper bulb. If you do it properly and the choke etc is working right, the engine should start promptly. If you don't prime the engine, it will basically never start. So every carby Yam is properly primed before starting.
With Ox66 engines, there is always fuel in the VST tank, a little inbuilt petrol tank inside the engine. When you turn the key to the on position, the high pressure fuel pump draws fuel from this VST tank and lifts the fuel rail pressure to 35psi.
The low pressure fuel pumps however will not be primed. They run dry until they can get enough fuel up to them to start working. In other words, they run dry until they manage to prime themselves. There is plenty of fuel in the VST tank to last until they do this and plenty of crank case pulses (which is how they are "powered") to prime them eventually
This would have to be the reason that Ox66 engines eat low pressure fuel pump diapraghms so quickly compared to carby engines. They are the exact same pump on both engine types.
Suggestions
1. Make sure there are no air leaks in the fuel lines or filters
2. Prime the primer bulb until it is hard EVERY first start of the day
3. Turn the key to the ON position and wait a few seconds for the high pressure pump to build pressure (you can crank if you want but it won't start until there is fuel pressure anyway so why wear it)
4. Then start the engine
Greg
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