FLW/BASS

[Rippinlip]

I am NOT trying to start a gigantic controversy here or start any "fish fighting" but while watching Claussen win the Classic knowing he is going to FLW got me thinking and I was wondering what you guys thought.

I was wondering which organization you all think will be the top trail in the next five years or so. I personally watch them both and follow anglers in both in my useless quest to learn, however, having two "big leagues" is getting cumbersome and I think one of them will rise above. Just curious really.

Buck

[Z20basser]

FLW, ESPN is ruining BASS!

[uk2thdoc]

Hard to say at this point. Both tours have things going for them.

BASS has KVD who is definitely the big draw in our sport. They also have most of the old guard like Denny Brauer, and many of the young guys that have become household names like Skeet, Ike, G, etc... They also have the longer standing tradition and they have ESPN on their side which is huge. BASS has also spent time to market the personalities (like em' or not) of their anglers and many are becoming household names. On the other hand, I can't think of many anglers who have made names for themselves while fishing FLW exclusively...or at least ones who the casual fishing fan would recognize.

However, FLW has alot going for them as well. They have major $ to offer and they are succeeding in drawing away several of the BASS guys because of the payouts and tournament structure. In addition, BASS may have ESPN, but FLW has Wal-mart backing them which is a pretty tough company to go up against. At this point, it seems like FLW may be the more angler friendly tour for the pros to fish. The other thing I like is that FLW has extended a hand to the federation.

This is just one man's opinion, but in the end I think BASS will win out over FLW because they are starting to embrace the mainstream sponsorship like FLW did and I think ultimately that will be what brings in more money to BASS. Also, BASS is on ESPN now and there is definitely a journalistic slant toward BASS from ESPN and I think the exposure combined with increased revenue from sponsors will ultimately push BASS into a league of its own. However, if FLW could land a major network TV contract things might change in a hurry because they are definitely a bit more angler friendly at this point. In addition, I think BASS will ultimately renew their commitments to the Federation guys and right some of the wrongs of the past few months. BASS has definitely done some bonehead stuff in the past year, but I think they are going through some growing pains and will eventually figure it out. Hopefully, they will learn to get the non-fishing commentators off the air and stop dumbing down the TV shows. In the mean time, they may take some lumps from FLW along the way and they will definitely lose some battles, but I think when the dust all settles they will have won the war.

This is just my opinion...take it for what its worth which ain't much.

What do you guys think will happen?

Doc

[uk2thdoc]

p.s. Buck you may have just thrown gasoline onto a fire...guess we shall see.

Doc

[EdDavisKY]

FLW you can not win a Boat unless you are fishing out of a Lead Sled than is less than 3 yrs old I think it is and Bass has ESPN who is owned by Disney. The sport is coming up with way to many boat restrictions and demands on the fisherman all for the shake of money. Taking a everyday/person sport and trying to make it into a rival of NAS car and is starting to look like the WWF (BASS) Why if I ever start to fish T they will all be local. The big money is spoiling .... again just an ol farts opinion. But then again guess sence I do not fish T's at this time I guess I should keep my coments to myself.

[Passion 4 Bassin]

Great question Buck. BASS has definitely made some mistakes especially with the Federation. I also have been very disappointed in the Saturday Morning Fishing Shows. They canceled Denny Brauer and Loud Mouth and now have Jerry McKinnis and kept Bass Tech.

I am also a fan of both tours and being a Ranger owner I like FLW connection.

However:

When I think about which TV coverage is better....I still like BASS. (This is especially true with the Classic vs. the FLW Championship. I mean 16 hours of coverage....fugetaboutit because FLW doesn't even get close)

When I think about which Championship is the most prestigious....I still think it's the BASS Master Classic. (Even though I am not crazy about the championship being the following year for which the contenders qualified)

When I get my FLW and my BASS Magazines....BASS is still the best in my opinion. (FLW has great photography but I am a bass fisherman wanna be...not a Red Fish, Walleye etc., etc. angler)

Despite a lot of whining by many on this board I still think that BASS is the most prestigious circuit and will survive and thrive. I also think FLW will thrive and I like having both tours. Competition makes for a better product and lets face it there is only one reason why Luke Clausen won $500,000 today and that is because FLW basically forced BASS to ante up or be left behind.

So for the short answer...I agree with Doc that BASS will remain number one because of history and ESPN.

[fishingmarlin]

There is a lot of complaining about BASS right now but it does has more money and coverage than FLW. I know in my basic satellite package I don't have any of the FLW stuff but I do have ESPN. There are probably a lot of people that don't get the FLW stations so they get less coverage.

Bass is going through some growing pains right now but with ESPN the sport will go grow. I remember back when Nascar started making a lot of changes and people moaned and growned but look how big it is now.

[201pro]

BASS will be gone in 5 years. The only thing that has kept BASS going was the support of the State Federations and the federation members. Now that the Federations are going away from BASS, they are going to loose their support base that they have taken for granted and it will be going over to the FLW side. BASS gets more exposure on TV because they are owned by the cable network that carries them. This exposure will drop when they find that it is not bringing in the audience and the advertisers pull back. The Classic final weigh-in I watched today was nothing but a commercial with about 30 minutes of Classic coverage mixed in. It was all glitz and glam, just like what BASS has turned into. They told the Federation Presidents in January that if they did not like how things were going with the "NEW" BASS to " Move On". Well they are going to get their wish and in doing so, I believe that they will loose their ass....

[Ky 520c]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rippinlip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am NOT trying to start a gigantic controversy here or start any "fish fighting" but while watching Claussen win the Classic knowing he is going to FLW
Buck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Im a lurker for the most part but I will throw .02 in, Claussen is not going FLW he is simply not fishing Bass he already was a FLW angler, he won 500,000. in 04 in the FLW championship.
Ed the reason you need a "lead sled"to win the boat is the boat is not part of the prize money it is a contingency award provided by Ranger

Also as far as flw turning out household names, alot of the big names came from FLW/ Operation Bass a few:
Rick Clunn 1985 All-American winner
Shaw Grigsby 1984 All-American winner
Greg Hackney started his career with FLW
David Fritts won 4 redman regionals but never won a All-American
Jay Yelas also started with Op. Bass(BFL/ Redman)
Clark Wendalent
OT. Fears
Some local guys:
Terry Bolton
Dan Morehead
Mark Menedez
Joe Thomas 1990 All-American winner


If you would like to read a little about Bass/Espn try this-http://www.fishingworld.com/Pr....html

I have to agree with Russ I think ESPN will ruin (has) BASS, I've fished Op. Bass tournies off and on since 88 and think they are a class act

[Mike Daleo]

First off, you shouldn't worry about starting any wars in here. Everyone in here stays pretty civil.

My .02 cents:

The only reason BASS hasn't fallenl apart yet is because they are slow to react and even slower to understand. This is all new to ESPN and they haven't a clue what a bass fisherman is all about. Most of us, even though not all are older, are still old school in our thinking. Memberships to BASS don't expire the minute folks get pissed so BASS doesn't know what is going to hit them.

If FLW even has plans to compete with BASS they have to be prepared to offer similar products and services to membership. I am an FLWmember and get FLW magazine, which is basically a couple of articles and mostly a tourney summary. It is also as much a sponsor whore magazine as Bassmaster. But at least Bassmaster has articles that are semi-educational.

I agree that without it's old leadership, BASS is gone inside of 5 years, or at least as we know it. How long can you sustain a TV organization that has no idea where it's roots are? I agree with Buck, why an ex-NFLer who constantly uses football analogies during his commentary. Plus, this was a window into the future, the biggest tournament of the year was an extremely amateur production. Buck, Doc and I could've done a better TV broadcast at Dale Hollow with my Sony HandiCam.

So, to sum it allup, #1 we have Byron Velvick, a guy who everyone can't stand. That is the first hint that at least the people hiring the talent are big mistake makers. any grown man who will call another man "sweet" on national TV is not in our niche. He even had his shirt untucked at the weigh-ins because all 3 days he wore black pants instead of the Khaki pants the other two were wearing.

#2 You have an australian chick who bass fishes and thought the conditions yesterday were "Tough, tough, tough, tough" what a genius! Basically she just reports what's "in the well!".

#3 You have the most assinine emcee I have ever seen. Who likes this guy? somebody give him a cough drop!

#4 You have an ex-NFLer who compares the constant casting and concentration to the plays in a football game. Please, could you see Kevin Wirth getting hit by someone. How many starts would he see?

#5 To try and make up for their lack of "know-how" when it comes to bass fishing, they filled every little dead sppot with an opportunity to kiis another angler's ass. The whole production was about how great everyone was. yeah, we know already.

Then Clausen wins, knows he's leaving, and ends the biggest BASS event of the year with a bang! Stands up there and doesn't act like he cares much, I know he did but look at a clip from the last three classics and compare Clausen to them. Even his folks who came up onto the stage and sat on the boat with him had expressionless faces. Huh? I don't get this. That whole image is not going to throw our sport into the future, it will make new followers look at the TV and say, "What just happened? He won $500,000 and he can't get pumped for it?"

Solution:

Ray Scott buys back BASS at a discount and names his successor. Take it back in the right direction or FLW will be the organization of the future.


Sorry this was so long.

Disclaimer: This is all based on my opinion which my wife tells me is usually wrong. I am used to that so we don't have to agree.

[hardestyeric]

I agree with Mike and Russ. On top of that I have been a long time subscriber to the BASS magazine and it has hit the crapper. Last months copy was nothing more than an advertisement for their next tourney. I couldnt' get anything out of it that I could apply here. The majority of their lake/destination reviews have been for the area around their new headquarters. I think they quit caring about their members and started caring about nothing more than money.
Eric H.

[CatFan]

Anybody wonder how ESPN can avoid antitrust problems with owning a tournament organization AND reporting on it. It would seem that if the represent themselves as sports news reporters, any deviation from equal coverage of both tours as far as results and news would be an unfair business practice. I'm not talking about the coverage, I'm talking about how results are presented during Sportscenter and on ESPNNEWS. When CNN reports on things affecting Time-Warner or AOL, they have to be very careful about noting they share ownership. Slightly different with ESPN, but I'm not so sure they are completely exempt.

[Passion 4 Bassin]

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikedaleo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off, you shouldn't worry about starting any wars in here. Everyone in here stays pretty civil.


Disclaimer: This is all based on my opinion which my wife tells me is usually wrong. I am used to that so we don't have to agree.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

From the first time I met her I knew that your wife was a smart lady! My only reservation was why would such an intelligent lady marry you??? I am sure she must have thought she could straighten you out!

[Mike Daleo]

Remember I asked you the same thing about your wife?

[Rippinlip]

I realize Luke fished both circuits...I guess I meant to say that he is not going to fish BASS this year.

I honestly dont care if ESPN succeeds or where the big names fish...I will follow the successful guys either way not as a fan but as a learning tool whether on TV, internet or print. I think most of dont care who wins and becomes a millionaire but we are trying to learn from these guys. I will say that I think FLW does a better job of tourney coverage as they follow the leaders and not the guys that are going to say cool things and wear bling bling as they weigh in their 30th place sack of fish.

BASS (bad or not) is getting fishing out there alot more though and you cant deny that. I.E....this morning...running my big ass on the treadmill at the gym Sportcenter had the "Ultimate highlights" section and out of about 50 fast paced clips at least 8 of them were of Classic shots. More than the olympic shots.

I guess I am getting older but I am over watching boats being pulled in with loud music. I am only trying to learn and everybody did a better job of that a couple of years ago.

I am also growing tired of all the politics of it all......I sure dont need to see naked fishermen holding baits anymore.

Disclaimers: just for fun

1. NEVER take your parents for the winning lap at the Classic...hire a chick if you have to.

2. Pro anglers need to quit griping and fish....hard for me to sympathize with them.

3. Dont tear up somebody else's boat....non-sponsor or not.

4. Dont "hold" a 2 1/2 pound fish in the other livewell for weigh in...not impressive.

5. Do not stand up in a bass boat holding a heavy TV camera in 60 MPH winds.

6. Do not watch the clips of the chick in the school bus on Saturday mornings.

7. If you are commentating with Shaw Grigsby do not interrupt him everytime he speaks.

8. If you have never fished before (ex pro athlete or not) do not get on international TV and tell me about conditions and where the fish have moved.

9. When you have Denny Brauer assisting commentary dont ask him dumb questions...think them out first.

10. Quit pushing chatterbaits until they are available to the rest of us.

FLW will become the "angler's circuit" and BASS will become the MTV "showtime" circuit&lt;----IMO...which is wrong more than Mike's.

Buck

[fishingmarlin]

Mike I can add to your list and we can get shirts made:

Top Ten Reasons ESPN/BASS Does Not Know There Audience

10. Bass Saturday's best shows are when everyone is out fishing. However when everyone is home its Beat Charlie Moore and the Fishing Hole.

9. Broadcasters like Zona are given small segmants even though they know more than the idiots they are using.

8. They keep raising entry fees so only the rich can fish. We all know the rich are big into this sport.

7. Schooled By Denny Brauer Cancelled because it was too advanced for their viewers. (straight from Denny's mouth)

6. Sports casters who don't know anything about the sport (Could have at least put the australian chick in a thong and skimpi top!)

5. I have sent in 10 different emails without a single response to any of them.

4. Crapped on the federation which was a main feeder for Bass.

3. Make a point to air fisherman in their worst moments all the while stating they don't condone it, then saying lets what that footage again we disagree with, and again, and again. I can't believe he did that its horrible display of sportsmanship, lets watch it again.

2. BEAT CHARLIE MOORE IS STILL AIRING

And the Number 1 reason!!

1. Some idiot flashing gang signs is a key host for a group that is viewed by people with old traditions and strong values.

LETS GO!! WELCOME TO THE WWBass Vince McMahon soon to take over Ray Scotts position.

Byron and Beat Charlie Moore are neck in neck for #1 reason!!

[Mike Daleo]

That Aussie chick is a buzzard. I wouldn't want to see her in a swimsuit.

Pretty good top ten though

[PushNit]

How the hell did they replace Fish with this bozo. His hair and the he put his arms around everbody. What a jerk. Couldnt stand to watch him was waiting for someone to tell him to just shut up.

[DaPhishGuy]

I'm not going to dwell upon the things we all obviously dislike about the way BASS has gone with the TV coverage, etc. However, I haven't heard anyone say what I really think about the bottom line here. This over-produced, packaged, processed "excitement" that ESPN would like for everyone to beleive is spontaneous, just insults my intelligence. Do they think people really can't see through this hype and tell that it's ALL A COMMERCIAL? Everything about it. That's what Disney does...with everything they touch. What's happening with the real fishermen is that they're going to FLW (because it's the only other option) and ESPN will replace them with the "actors" that suit their needs. Don't get me wrong, FLW is only slightly better and I'm willing to give them a shot for one year. If it isn't a great improvement, I'll drop it all next year and just fish the BBC Circuit!

[Daniel]

Who cares! I ain't good enough to fish either one anyway!