cant figure out what is making my 200 johnson venom [1997] double fire at fast idle , it is loading the engine with double fuel , and i have heard this is a problem that could cause holes in the pistons. i have changed the power pack , stator,unplugged the fast idle wire , i do know i have to re-ring the motor due to smoking , and the difference in how fast it idles out of the water compared to in the water with back pressure.
dont know but theys another post about the same problem posted on here maybe he found the fix,
01,225,HO,Rude Ram,1;86 gears 93,nitro 190 76.6gps,26tro4 m#E225FHLSIF,S#G04956186
ummmm just because its smoking doesnt mean the rings need to be changed its a 2 stroke it is supposed to smoke compression test will tell you about the rings.
how do you know its double firing?
it is supposed to idle quite a bit higher with no back pressure.
do you have a service manual? are you doing your own work?
personnally (and dont take this the wrong way)from your post i think you are not very knowledgeable about what your doing , or someone is taking you for a ride.
double firing would mean that it would fire (spark) 1 time on time then 1 time at some other point during that cycle and i think if it was double firing you would have a detonation /preignition problem which will break stuff ,
i dont think it would have much to do with the fuel delivery
post the model number (follow the rules)
post the problem you are having with the motor (like what its doing wrong to make you think its double firing)
and someone will help you
Modified by overdrivecb at 10:34 AM 5/11/2010
yep, kind of agree, I think we need a better description of exactly what you mean, double fueling, double firing, smoking and so on mean not a lot when you are relying on text to figure out what people are saying.
o.k. finally got back to house to update .
complete imformation on the motor
1997 johnson venom 200 h.p.
model no. j200stleub
serial no. g 04320798
does not have carborators , brucato efi system installed.
yes it was double firing before the efi system was installed. it double fires on the timing light , that in return makes the efi system put double the fuel at each firing , as for the smoking it was fogging the takeoff area before a tournament mighty embarrasing indeed , we unhooked the fast idle and it ran worse ,
the reason i say it needs rings is because of the excess smoke and the difference in idling out of the water its around 14oo in the water it barely idles and will load up idling . that makes me think it is loosing compression in the water all i have left over is replace the timing base . tony brucato claims it is not his system thats causing the problem and there is a digital power pack to cure the firing problem so there is a problem with them , i have also heard of holes in pistons from this . i really need to know the cause and possible solution if possible . love my rig but this is driving me crazy
<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by flip-n-pitch »</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">o.k. finally got back to house to update .
complete imformation on the motor
1997 johnson venom 200 h.p.
model no. j200stleub
serial no. g 04320798
does not have carborators , brucato efi system installed.
yes it was double firing before the efi system was installed. it double fires on the timing light , that in return makes the efi system put double the fuel at each firing , as for the smoking it was fogging the takeoff area before a tournament mighty embarrasing indeed , we unhooked the fast idle and it ran worse ,
the reason i say it needs rings is because of the excess smoke and the difference in idling out of the water its around 14oo in the water it barely idles and will load up idling . that makes me think it is loosing compression in the water all i have left over is replace the timing base . tony brucato claims it is not his system thats causing the problem and there is a digital power pack to cure the firing problem so there is a problem with them , i have also heard of holes in pistons from this . i really need to know the cause and possible solution if possible . love my rig but this is driving me crazy</td></tr></table>
if it's double fueling it will flood out and not idle in the water,can't blow out the xtra fuel,nothing to do with rings bad,,on the muffs it can just blow the extra fuel out,my 96 200 did some weird firing back a few years ago,the magnets cracked,came loose under the fly wheel.just for grins mine idles about 1200 on muffs 950 in water.put carbs back on.
brucato efi system installed.
well that makes all the difference in the world
i dont know much a bout the brucato efi except its bad azz
would love to see some pics
does it still use factory electronics
yes still is factory electronics , the brucato system is awsome , i will try to figure out how to post the pics , i really dont know much computer savy , may take a little help to post pics , now the efi system is computerized so if/when we re-ring it [we are going to to a bleed out test next week ] i am sending the computer to brucato for test to make sure it is o.k. ,
i might as well replace the magnets on the flywheel , we did look at them when we replaced the stator and they looked fine , but its another try .
but the double firing was going on before we installed the efi , the reason for removing the carbs was i didnt want to spend the moola on a new motor but wanted turn key start , and was tired of the ole prime , choke , sputter starts in cold weather with the carbs , ironically i still have crappy starts but an awsome running motor past idle , but this double firing is scaring the heck out of me , especially when i hear of holes in pistons ,ouch
and as far as the double firing goes according to tony brucato the efi system tells the injectors to spray by the firing , therfore when it double fires the injectors double inject. now this only happens at fast idle . thats another puzzle.
OK, heres my take on all this, before you fitted this EFI system you had an issue, fitted the EFI and now have two issues, the more you fiddle about and throw bandaids at this, the more time and money you will spend, do NOT be hypnotised by your thinking you need new rings!! you will probably have a few more issues then as well, smoking and worn rings do not necessarily go together on a 2 stroke, be very clear on that (but it is possible) best option, put the motor back to standard (with the original carbs, after rebuilding them) fix the electrics issue that is causing the "double firing" before you go any further.
i do not dissagree with you on putting the carbs back on , but that also leads to what the heck i do with a $3,ooo.00 efi conversion assy. throw it away , brucato darn sure isnt taking it back , i realize its my problem , but to get the firing problem fixed i feel then the efi will fall in place and it will be a really great motor , considering the year and all , i cant seem to win the lottery and they tell me you have to buy tickets in order to win , go figure . i am just looking for the ultimate answer , what is making the darn thing double fire .
Loose timing wheel, theres something on Bill Kelly's site about making sure you have the wave washer installed under the bolt.
ok , figured out .
and i really appreciate you guys input on the problem .
the alternator was going bad , it mostly had a problem at idle , therefore it wasnt charging correct at idle and made it fire at odd times .
was recieving only 8 volts at idle and a little over 9 at fast idle . when the fast idle would shut down then it would die also .
purrs like a kitten now .
so there you go, great news, but for future reference, if you have a problem, do not start some sort of upgrade before the problem is fixed, upgrades need the motor to be running nice before fitting after market odds and ends.
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