1996 225 EFI...more help with take off problems...EUROPEANAM...

hey EuropeanAM...
as before you know i really appreciate your help and everyone else's so any info is appreciated this time as well...
Still having trouble getting my motor to get on plane...Just put a 26 fury on there, and can't hardly get it on plane even with the trim tabs down...But after the nose drops, she will FLY....at WOT, i can turn my 26 FURY 5700-5800 82 GPS...LOVING IT...(2003 Gambler OUTLAW)...
BUT...
#1 noticed my oil reservoir on the motor with LOW oil level
#2 with less than 1/3 tank of gas, still having to prime bulb after every time i've cut engine off(just rebuilt diaphram as you told me)
so...took cowl off after we got back from lake, and took a look AGAIN...noticed another one of the little oil lines leading to a cylinder to have POPPED off AGAIN, reglued it back on...then WOW, noticed the main oil pressure hose 5/16" coming from BOTTOM STARBOARD side to be SPLIT nearly half in two...fixed that and haven't had a chance to get back in the water....
ANY SUGGESTIONS before i go back???
COUld this have fixed my horrible take off problem???

It more than likely solved your LOW OIL LEVEL PROBLEM. You will however need to bleed the air from the engine mounted oil tank:

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerot...esent

If you have not already done so, I would recommend that you perform a SPARK TEST on all six cylinders.

Additionaly, take a look at this post- and verify that you've upgraded fuel lines/primer bulb EXACTLY as noted:

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerot...first

fuel line was replaced back in january from tank to motor with one from walmart that says universal...it says on the package that it WILL tolerate todays gas standards...

SPARK TEST?...is there a link you can give me for that? i'm sure i can do that myself...

ALSO, everytime we go to adjust my TPS, it reads backwards....when the hotfoot is relaxed it reads like 3.80, when WOT it reads .95....????
do you think i should just go ahead and buy a new one? IF the motor didn't idle so well and RUN so well on MIDDLE and TOP end, i'd better worried, but she is strong in those ranges...

Fuel line: Replace it! Don't buy parts for your outboard motor at department stores.... unless they're OEM. I could FILL a 55 gallon trash can every year with "brand new- and totally useless" fuel lines of similar origin. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

Spark test: Attach a timing light to each plug wire, ONE AT A TIME. Watch for the light to flash. BTW... make sure you're running ONLY Champion QL77CC plugs. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/thumbsup2.gif

TPS: You better double check your testing technique against the directions in the service manual. You should NOT be reading 3.80V at idle.... this would INDEED be backwards (and would result in a very RICH idle, and a VERY LEAN WOT). http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthdown.gif

hey European AM...
replaced fuel line yesterday and all new Spark plugs....
Fuel line, definately fixed my starving problem...
the plugs i took out "were" the correct ones, but they were all REALLY REALLY RICH looking...could this be a sign that my TPS really is putting out incorrectly as i had reported when we checked it last time...
Remember i had told you that when we checked it, it read 3.80 at IDLE and .95 at WOT...
TOOK boat to the water and still couldn't get the boat on plane without sending partner to the front AND running down the trim tabs, but once the nose starting dropping, it will set you back and FLY...turned my 26 FURY 5800 at 82.3 GPS yesterday...
what NOW for the sluggish low end???

Let's go back to the TPS situation FIRST. We need to determine "exactly" how you are taking these readings before proceeding (the APPROPRIATE method is to utilize a TPS TEST HARNESS, which plugs in between the TPS and the engine harness).

The factory service manual has very good instructions for this proceedure.

If you have access to a DDT (or the Computer Diagnostic System), you could "view" the TPS voltage to confirm that the readings are "similar" (if they're opposite of your testing results- you're doing something wrong). http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

well we dont have the tool needed, so i took it to a local outboard mechanic that does...
BUT
we were veiwing the voltage by unhooking the plug, and reconnecting it with 3 dummy wires that allowed us to put the end of the voltometer into the "now open" plug...

Between "which two color wires" were you taking your readings?

we unplugged, took 3 identical pieces of wire about 2 inches long, put slide on connectors on one end of each piece of wire, connected the connector to each of the prongs inside male end of plug, slid other end of wire directly into female end...This allowed us room to connect the black tester lead to the ground and connect the red lead to either of the remaining wires...i can't remember which of the wires in the plug gave us the numbers, but only one way would.
After we got the backwards reading, we figured we had it backwards and tried on the other wire and got nothing...

I will once again allow the use of my TPS harness if needed. Let me know and as soon as Rod Hipsher is done with it, I will have him send it to you. It would make it alot easier for Don to help if he got accurate readings from trusted OEM equipment. Let me know if I can help out, Jason Bubier http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/USA1.gif

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Fast 492 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I will once again allow the use of my TPS harness if needed. Let me know and as soon as Rod Hipsher is done with it, I will have him send it to you. It would make it alot easier for Don to help if he got accurate readings from trusted OEM equipment. Let me know if I can help out, Jason Bubier http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/USA1.gif </td></tr></table>

That's a GREAT offer- and an EXCELLENT IDEA.

Once you're set up with the harness- let me know and we'll go from there! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/thumbsup2.gif

well i really appreciate it, but i've already taken the boat to a NEW local guy that's been working on outboards for 20 years and HAS a Diagnostic Computer...
He called me this morning and after going through everything he knew, here's what he came up with...
#1 we WERE reading backwards somehow, and the TPS was just a LITTLE off on the idle end (1.08) WOT was (3.81)...
#2 he said the rebuild that my Dad did looked REALLY GOOD and compression checked out perfect...
#3 he did a few other adjustments that were minor...

Ultimately he said he didn't see anything that was WRONG or OFF enough that should be keeping me from running normally...
I've replaced spark plugs...
I've replaced fuel line with OEM mercury line...
this motor didn't do this on my Gambler 209...
I'm using the same Jack plate (bob's 10" hydraulic)

A couple more "pieces of the puzzle" may be helpful:

-What is your fuel pressure AT IDLE and AT WOT?

-What boat is this engine on now? 2003 Gambler Outlaw?

-What prop are you running? Still the 26 Fury?

-RPM's and WATER PRESSURE @ WOT?

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Fast 492 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I will once again allow the use of my TPS harness if needed. Let me know and as soon as Rod Hipsher is done with it, I will have him send it to you. It would make it alot easier for Don to help if he got accurate readings from trusted OEM equipment. Let me know if I can help out, Jason Bubier http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/USA1.gif </td></tr></table>
Jason I am back. Let me know I will send it wherever you want. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/thumbsup2.gif
Thanks a lot ! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/boardstuff2/beers.gif

need to check the fuel pressure...
yes 03 OUTLAW now....w/ 10" bobs hydralic
26 fury, but have also tried my 25 trophy which does a little bit better, but i'm turning it over 6,000 on top end...
can turn the 26 fury 5750 at 82.3 GPS...
turn the 25 Trophy 6,000 for a short period at 80(+/-)

How many RPMs do you hit before it comes up on plane?

Rpm's can very to get on plane based on boat setup. I wouldnt think much could be diagnosed based on that. If he is having to get up front to plane out I am wondering if it is a set up problem ? I knocked off a plug wire 1 time with my cowl when i was putting it back on and caused this symptom. I know my tempest is very sluggish out of the hole but my trophy can keep the r's and jump right up.

thats the problem i cant get over about 2400 rpms....if i start swirving the wheel and let it start breaking away, all of a sudden it will RRRRR and start to cavitate if i dont ease out of it....

I did notice the other day that unlike on my previous boat, this one will do better if i leave the Jackplate on about 5 start dropping to 3 while trying to get up...seems that speeds the RRRRev up....and wont cavitate once she ever starts going...

did u ever try different pvs plugs ? cant even get my boat up with them small ones in even the mid sized ones are a bit small for my tempest but like u said soon at she lays down she is gone http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/thumbsup2.gif

no the trophy 25 isn't a plus, so it doesn't accept any plugs...
the trophy 27 was, but only had 3 plugs to use...
the fury i've got, runs best on mid to top end, but doesn't have any plugs in, and i still can't get it out of whole smoothtly...

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by low slung cruiser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">I did notice the other day that unlike on my previous boat, this one will do better if i leave the Jackplate on about 5 start dropping to 3 while trying to get up...seems that speeds the RRRRev up....and wont cavitate once she ever starts going...</td></tr></table>

That information actually is helpful!

Keep in mind that the Fury will not ALWAYS run at the same height as a Trophy or Tempest. Very different prop. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

How much time has this engine spent "sitting"? I'm beginning to suspect that it may have injectors that are partially clogged (and might benefit from a good injector cleaning, such as what Tony Brucato, or Wayne Worthy offer.... http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

well...i bought the motor in june of 08....was a EBAY "as is" deal....no background info, but was guaranteed to run...that it did...ran for exactly 1 year almost to the day, when a checkvalve went bad and i scorched 2 piston walls...rebuilt july 09....spent 2 months breaking motor in, carefully...put on NEW (to me) boat in december 09...sat for 1 month while getting new boat painted...February 10 she was back in the water for first time on new boat....
CHECK THIS out...
the first day out, after letting idle for 10 minutes that first day out back in FEB, then had to idle through no wake zone, once i nailed it to come on plane...WSHHHH, right on plane she went, just like a dream...eased around the lake getting the hang of her...set her down to fish for a few minutes...jumped back in the seat, then BBBOOOOGGGGGG....from then on, its been sluggish....with the exception of like 2 random times when trying since...Its crazy, because over the past 3 months, i've tried to get on plane maybe 100 times...out of the 100, i'd say 7 she has JUMPED up on plane like she's supposed to do, 85 i've had to put trim tabs down and run to front, and the remaining 8 it wouldn't plane out no matter what i did...

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by ploppin4bass &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Rpm's can very to get on plane based on boat setup. I wouldnt think much could be diagnosed based on that.
</td></tr></table>

Since he did post that his rpms are only getting to about 2300, I think he could use a little more exhaust going over the blades. Recommend opening up the holes till you get to about 4500.

If you have all of the holes fully open, then I think you have engine problems and need to get it to someone like Don.

I have never experienced much with the vent holes and such. I cant run 2500 without my boat trying to plane out w/ a tempest plus. Say through a no wake zone were you are pushing I need to keep it under that . But like I said My motor tucks way under my transom witch led me to believe it could have been a set up issue.

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by low slung cruiser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">well...i bought the motor in june of 08....was a EBAY "as is" deal....no background info, but was guaranteed to run...that it did...ran for exactly 1 year almost to the day, when a checkvalve went bad and i scorched 2 piston walls...rebuilt july 09....spent 2 months breaking motor in, carefully...put on NEW (to me) boat in december 09...sat for 1 month while getting new boat painted...February 10 she was back in the water for first time on new boat....
CHECK THIS out...
the first day out, after letting idle for 10 minutes that first day out back in FEB, then had to idle through no wake zone, once i nailed it to come on plane...WSHHHH, right on plane she went, just like a dream...eased around the lake getting the hang of her...set her down to fish for a few minutes...jumped back in the seat, then BBBOOOOGGGGGG....from then on, its been sluggish....with the exception of like 2 random times when trying since...Its crazy, because over the past 3 months, i've tried to get on plane maybe 100 times...out of the 100, i'd say 7 she has JUMPED up on plane like she's supposed to do, 85 i've had to put trim tabs down and run to front, and the remaining 8 it wouldn't plane out no matter what i did...</td></tr></table>

I'm going to recommend switching gears a bit here.

Get your hands on a TIMING LIGHT. Take the boat out- run it, and see if you can duplicate the "won't plane off" condition. Connect the timing light to each plug wire (one at a time) and check for spark (the light should flash).

If you consistently see spark on all six cylinders (recommend duplicating the condition a couple of times), you're probably going to have to pull the fuel system, injectors, etc. down and go through them.

Don't skip the spark test- it is possible to have a CDM/Coil or a stator that "fires only under certain conditions". http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

hey don check this out...
put the basketball in jackplate to try and raise back end up some more...
NO LUCK...same problem
went home raise motor from the next to bottom hole, to the bottom hole...
went back to lake...NOW motor will get up on plane pretty good as long as i run down trim tabs and dont put jack plate any lower than 4" on my digital bobs gauge...
im noticing though that after the nose starts to drop, even though im easing out of gas to keep from cavitating, the motor will actually "BURN" gas for a second or two even after i've eased out of it...sorta like it had tried to flood and then as it frees up, it's got excess gas in there to burn...????
My mechanic up here still thinks that my exhaust is building up till the nose breaks over and then it clears...
the mechanic is a certified merc mechanic and has put it on the computer and set the timing and checked everything...says its set to specs...????

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by low slung cruiser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">My mechanic up here still thinks that my exhaust is building up till the nose breaks over and then it clears...
the mechanic is a certified merc mechanic and has put it on the computer and set the timing and checked everything...says its set to specs...????</td></tr></table>

It sounds like he may be right!

Which prop were you running during the above description (exactly)?

26 FURY....
i know my 25 trophy would be a little quicker, but the fury is PERFECT from the time the nose drops up to 5700....INCREDIBLE MID RANGE...plenty of bow lift...
i still fill like i've got something causing it to load up, that if fixed, would allow me to come out of hole better and not need trim tabs...

The problem you are having with your engine is a problem I have seen many times with the 1996 225 EFI's. I can fix it for under $400.00.

http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/popcorn.gif

http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

If it doesn't cure the problem, the cost is $0.00.

whats that???

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by Props4u2 &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote"> http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

If it doesn't cure the problem, the cost is $0.00.

</td></tr></table>

I believe he's referring to Service Bulletin 1996-03 (which references numerous items to check, followed by a different setup proceedure for TPS adjustment at WOT).

Might be worth having your local dealer reference this bulletin to see if it helps with your problem. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

Don,
It's nothing to do with set up or the bulletin.
Sorry but I'm not going to spill the beans, so to speak, on this one.
I will say that it is a performance upgrade that does not affect durability but does increase performance throughout the rpm range. I have been performing this upgrade on the '96 225 efi's since they were introduced with a 100% success rate.

<table width="90%" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=center><tr><td>Quote, originally posted by low slung cruiser &raquo;</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">26 FURY....
i know my 25 trophy would be a little quicker, but the fury is PERFECT from the time the nose drops up to 5700....INCREDIBLE MID RANGE...plenty of bow lift...
i still fill like i've got something causing it to load up, that if fixed, would allow me to come out of hole better and not need trim tabs...</td></tr></table>

Sounds like you ought to give Lee a holler and see what he can do for ya. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

DON...
just talked to my dad(who rebuilt the motor)
he said that when he was going throught the motor during rebuild he noticed that my intake only had like 1/2 of the little checkvalve/jet thingies...so he went to the local dealership and ordered a whole batch and we put them on as the manual shows...
THATS got to be it...Lee up at sanderson, said something about in 1996 there is something that they changed up in 97 or 98, and he can change mine...said that its something in reguards to intake porting...
All i know is before we went through my motor, i never ever had a problem coming out of hole...now i do...
i want to say it was 16 little jets that it was supposed to have and mine only had like 8...anyways they are inside the intake, and are supposed to direct the fuel/oil into the intake and not let it push back...

can I borrow that TPS harness? my motor running sluggish

I didn't say anything about intake porting. Someone must have misunderstood something.

Adam:

As I said earlier- if you want to see what Lee's option is.... try it. He's offered you a "no cost risk".... which is hard to beat.

As far as what he'd be planning to do.... I don't read minds. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

my bad LEE...was talking with my dad, and thats what he understood you to say...