Which Deer to take

I have been seeing and waching three does, two botton button bucks and two yearling does. Have not tken one yet but I am going to put some meat in the freezer soon. Thought about taking a button buck they proboley wont't hang around after this season anyway but would like to let them grow as well. If I take a doe tow of them have drop twins so they might do it a agian the other has no yearling with her. Have not seen a mature buck yet this year but soo as they go into heat they start showing up. Which one for meat and improve the heard

Read Chad's post on QDM. Unless it's a question of overpopulation, you can't do anything to improve the quality of deer by taking any of these. What we're you hoping to improve?

Population is good not over just would like to see more bucks around, but I have read that those two button bucks will go of on there own after this winter

I have read that before using there logic maybe taking a mature doe.

Take one of the little ones for meat and let the big does drop two more this spring. If you take a big doe you kill three with one shot.

In our area, they are practically begging for hunters to harvest does... In fact, some counties allow you to harvest up to 8 deer on antlerless tags... I took a doe last year for the freezer, and I will do the same this year if given the opportunity. Overpopulation and declining health issues are real hot topics around here - there are a lot of buck hunters, and does pretty much get overlooked. Illinois is having some buck vs. doe numbers issues, and it's becoming a problem in some areas.

You can't constantly pull bucks out of the population and not create a problem - bucks and does need to be harvested in order to keep a healthy deer herd. Remember, does produce bucks, but too many does can restrict the number of good bucks in any population... Inbreeding and overpopulation are the big reasons why buck quality can drop in any area...

I would take the one that doesn't have a yearling. If it looks like an old doe it's more than likely it is past its prime.

leave the pups alone, take one of the does. all kinds of arguments can go with one or the other, but which is gonna be more apt to fill up your freezer?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOK123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Population is good not over just would like to see more bucks around, but I have read that those two button bucks will go of on there own after this winter
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That's definitely not something that applies around here. If you want to see more bucks, shoot fewer of them. They tend to follow the food more than anything. If a buck is happy and healthy, he'll live his whole life in a fairly small area and in five years he won't be so little.

And about the "mature doe" thing? If she's bigger than average, leave her until her teeth fall out. She probably has good genes for improving average size. This is no different than people--big parents tend to make big kids. A big old doe might also be in charge of a group of does and lambs who look to her to lead them and make decisions for the group. Shooting her might be like shooting the queen which messes up their social order. If the does are happy, healthy and not overpopulated, I wouldn't bother them but taking one for the freezer probably won't hurt much either.

You can try to take barren does to improve the health of the herd but I for one couldn't tell you whether she never got bred or had a fawn that died or got eaten or can't have fawns at all. It's like trying to determine the life story and antler potential of a button buck. You can't do it.

There are reasons for each side,I don't think I am going to take any untill after the rut, that many does coming in heat will get the attention of some bucks I have been guilty in the past of taken bucks that were not at the prime. I need to let the little ones walk hold out for a bigger one. Then havest a doe for the freezer during the late part rfile season.

Wow...there are so many variables to answer this question logically.....

For instance...if you are in an area that has extremely harsh winters and high mortality rates from cold weather, then it is acceptable, and even in some cases advised to take one of the fawns.

If you are in an area that has low lactation rates among mature does, then shoot anything that doesn't have testicles....and as many as you can....

If you have high lactation rates, mild climates, and low natural predation, advisably take one of the does.......any of the does.......remember that you don't manage for 1 year...you are in for the long haul....that being said, I have heard some thought processes on it that if you have very good fawning rates, and have a fairly balanced sex ratio (which most of the country doesn't), then taking the smaller doe is a smarter move simply because with natural and illegal mortality rates (not even taking into account legal hunting) the adult doe has a higher survival rate.

As far as when to shoot them, the earlier the better....deer eat 8 pounds of groceries per day.....groceries that can get sparse later in the year post-rut....in addition, bucks will spend up to 48 hours with a single doe breeding and courting.....only to shoot that doe later.....the problem with that is that you can actually aid in helping the timing and duration of the rut by taking the does out that you intend to before they start breeding. No good can come from waiting to take a deer you know you intend to take.....no good except for purely hunting, and you can hurt yourself in the long run.

Bottom line.....sounds as though you may be just starting this, so I would suggest taking a doe, any doe, and go ahead and get your meat.....

And I've heard about killing one doe is equal to killing 3 deer many times....not a knock on anyone.....but that is only true in controlled situations where you have 100% fawning rates....in ANY other situation, killing one doe can, and most times will actually be an increase of deer....

Ahhhhh....just reread your post....2 out of 3 have little ones...unless the one with no little one is a yearling (1.5 year old deer), then you may not have high fawning rates in your area.....have you seen very many other deer this year? Have the does had fawns?

That is the only one I have seen with out at least one fawn, twins was the norm of what i have seen else where around here. When we bought he place four years ago deer just would pass through nothing here to hold them I was all pasture and the rest mowed down couple times a year. I have been working on it now the last two year seeing resident deer staying around all year. The program seems to be working out. We are in an area that 15 deer per square mile accroding to the lastest survey.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOK123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We are in an area that 15 deer per square mile accroding to the lastest survey.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How bad are the winters in your area? In these parts, winter habitat is the determining factor in deer population. Some areas of the Maine had 35-40% winter kill last year which amounts to 3-4 times the annual harvest. It's next to impossible to make winter cover in your lifetime but you can feed them (if legal) to boost local populations. Keep in mind though that feeding them through the winter allows even the scrawny weaklings to survive and continue breeding.

Winters are not an issue here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOK123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Population is good not over just would like to see more bucks around, but I have read that those two button bucks will go of on there own after this winter
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If you kill their mom they will stay around. She is the one who will run them off. If she's gone they will stay in her home range.

That used to be the norm and accepted belief Roddy...there was even a pretty good study that proved it....problem is there have been a couple in recent years that went the opposite way.....I'll post a couple articles on that on here in another thread....one from the original thought, and one from the recent studies....

There is only one answer to this question, A mature Doe!!!!! even if she has twins, they will be fine.

I have always been a meat hunter. If it's brown - it's down! http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/popcorn.gif

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOK123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I don't think I am going to take any untill after the rut, that many does coming in heat will get the attention of some bucks </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats my theory on my land. The hot does are better than any buck attractant on the market.

Truth is too many does, dilutes the urgency or peak of the rut. In other words you will see less chasing and less deer movement. This has been my experience over 30 years of deer hunting.

Alot of differing opions on this.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jettdog68 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Truth is too many does, dilutes the urgency or peak of the rut. In other words you will see less chasing and less deer movement. This has been my experience over 30 years of deer hunting.

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tis true, to many ladies create less competition. with a large population of girls, even the subordinate's get a piece of the pie, right down to the lowly spike.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HOOK123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Alot of differing opions on this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Could be because we don't really have the whole picture of your situation and most everyone is gonna answer based on how they manage their own deer. Their goals may or may not apply to your area and this being the internet, answers will be all over the map anyway.

Sounds like your land is still mostly open, is there enough cover to hold the bucks you want? How big is your parcel? What's around you? Do any of your neighbors try to follow QDM? You said it's not overpopulated but is it at carrying capacity? Whole bunch of blanks to fill in before you can come up with any sort of plan.

I still doubt it'll matter much one way or the other if you took a yearling doe and they're good eats.

the subordinates are gonna do alot breeding anyway...not matter what type of ratio you have in the woods.

here's another tidbit....all does, regardless of age (it is said that fawn does will only breed minimally...@ 30%) will come in heat...all will breed....all are capable of producing fawns....no such thing as an old barren doe...oldest doe on record in the wild was 22 years old...she had singles, twins or triplets until her last year...so any and all does will breed and come in heat and attract bucks. problem is, with too many does, a very simplistic was to look at it is that the bucks don't have time to breed all of them, as they are only receptive for a day or two...if they don't get bred the first cycle, it may be 2 or 3 cycles later before they get it....what occurs there is late fawning, miscarriages, poor quality feed when the fawns are born, etc. None of those are good scenarios for the deer herd. Shoot plenty, and shoot them early....