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Guys, I am on my 3rd Point 1 on my new boat. It will not calibrate. It gives decent heading data while underway with either the outboard or the TM (so while moving) but no useful heading data while fishing and not underway.
I swear on all my other boats my Point 1 gave great heading data while not moving. Or maybe I have lost my mind?
Help guys... how is your Point 1 heading data while your boat is standing still?
Where is the Point one mounted.
Can you post a picture of the antenna for review.
Not sure what you mean by heading data? Do you mean when moving the icon is straight and pointing in the direction of travel and while not moving the icon is moving? Or the icon is straight but the map is spinning? Or when approaching a waypoint, you get close and suddenly it’s behind you? All can be symptoms of improper installation but more likely result from not correctly selecting the Point 1 to supply the correct data to each unit.
NoCAL
What graphs are you running.
What graphs are you running. I belive I know what your problem is
Typically the problem is magnetic interference. Check for magnetic interference and re-locate the P1 to a better spot.
Attachment 461464
You can see in the picture where my Point 1 is installed. It has no problem seeing the satellites as I use the Point 1 as the GPS source on my console-mounted Carbon 12 and my bow-mounted Carbon 9. My GPS position on my charts is fine never had a problem there.
This install location is pretty common.
The internal compass of the Point 1 is what provides heading data. The compass of course is a magnetic device no different than any other compass you are used to. As long as the placement of the antenna is not in a place that has magnetic interference (RFI, EMI) it will work. The compass does not require a view of the sky just that is is level and the "arrow" on the antenna is aligned forward when installed. I have the Point 1 selected as the data source for heading on both units. This is how all my previous boats were setup and they all worked as intended. This is also how Roy Barrow instructed to setup the Point 1 when I took his Lowrance class years ago... Roy is the man when it comes to Lowrance!
I have checked best I can for magnetic interference I use a handheld compass and cannot see any obvious interference.
To clarify: my heading (meaning which direction the chevron icon that represents the boat on a Lowrance chart is pointed) is correct and usable when the boat is in motion while powered by the outboard or TM. When I am fishing and neither the outboard nor TM are moving the boat, the boat icon on my chart does not point in the correct direction it can be 180 degrees out or 90 degrees out or 10 degrees out.
I have talked to Lowrance level 2 tech support twice now while on the water. They cannot find anything wrong with my software settings that would cause my problem. They are in the process of calibrating a new Point 1 before it ships to me. I will install their pre-calibrated unit and see if that fixes the heading issue.
Does anyone know what is causing lack of usable heading data while my boat is not in motion?
Are you sure you are using the P1 as source for heading at all? Sounds like you are using GPS-calculated heading. That will be correct when the boat is moving, but not while stationary or drifting slowly.
Based on the info you are providing your settings are not optimized for your boat; and I agree with Team Colibri that it sounds like you are not setting heading under vessel to the Point-1. Check your settings against this article:
https://storage.westernbass.com/mag_...ge6/index.html
If all settings are correct, 2 thoughts...
There are likely several wires (potential source of EMI) that lead to the console just under where you currently have the Point-1 (perhaps a common location, but not necessarily a good location).
Double check the screws used to secure the Point-1 are non magnetic stainless.
Also I would set your bow unit to use its internal GPS for position, but Point-1 for heading.
Attachment 461478Attachment 461479
Yep, I already have the vessel heading setting set to Point 1 always have on all my boats. Learned this one a long time ago. I realize that on my bow unit I prolly should change the GPS source to the bow-mounted Carbon and will for waypoint accuracy. But the GPS source does not affect the heading data and that is the only thing I am having a problem with while the boat is stationary.
Again, the Point 1 will not calibrate on my boat. It times out immediately as soon as I touch the calibrate button. Lowrance is stumped and sending another unit that they have already calibrated.
Any ideas?
... Marc, great article BTW in Western Bass. Having you advise on my Point 1 issue is greatly appreciated!
If you have not done so, these two pics give a quick way to check for proper voltage and resistance on the N2K backbone.
I had similar problems after having my hull replaced and discovered that the shop rewired my N2K backbone and left off one of the termination resistors. It took me several weeks and a lot of frustration to sort it out.
https://i.ibb.co/QN1v09h/6256-E16-E-...8269-C03-F.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/VpKjwKb/22-ECAFDB-E...397-A31069.jpg
To me the symptoms point to no heading data. Why does the Point 1 selected for heading data say Invalid? I think you are ready for a hard reset and NMEA 2000 device calibration.
NoCAL
... if you look at picture in the Western Bass article written by Marc the Point 1 shows as "invalid" there, too. Not sure why it says "invalid" I pulled up the menus in my garage and snapped the photos.
Bill Reynolds, was your NMEA problem (or one of them) your Point 1 not providing proper heading data while the boat was stationary but good data while the boat was underway? And would your Point 1 antenna successfully calibrate on your boat?
... does the Point 1 show invalid because it was inside my garage without a clear view of satellites? I believe the Point 1 does not show as invalid when I am on the water but I do not recall for sure.
Not having the Point-1 working when stationary or drifting with river current would seriously hurt my tournament success. Yes, you are correct; it will show invalid when it is not getting a fix on satellites. If it does show invalid on the water it will not be functioning. Sounds like you are doing the right things, but I would consider relocating your new Point-1 to the rear of your boat as close to your transducers as possible while avoiding engine interference. Use of duct tape to temporarily locate it and move it around is a good idea before drilling screw holes. As mentioned use non-magnetic screws (the ones that it comes with), and do not over tighten them which can bend the housing and impede its operation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyred
Marc, yep on all my other boats I had the Point 1 on the transom above the transducer for accuracy. My new Ranger RT198P aluminum is foam filled and limits the places I can mount it with underside access to the cable. It would have to be on the carpeted deck above the battery box and that would put it in the way of co-anglers was my thought. I went with behind the drivers seat to get it out of the way knowing I would sacrifice some waypoint accuracy at the console.
Marc, just spit balling... any chance a soft or hard reset is needed to fix this? I have not because the GPS function of the Point 1 has always worked and a reset did not seem to be warranted.
I guess I have not thought to check that my rigger/dealer used the supplied screws and not ones that would be magnetic? Or that they warped it by securing it too tightly... although against a carpeted surface this seems less likely.
... well, I thought I would go pull the screws used to secure the Point 1 down to the deck and ONE OF THE TWO WAS A MAGNETIC SCREW! Man, I cannot believe it... that is a simple thing for my dealer to check. I made sure the screw near it holding down the floor panel and the screws in the cup holder were non-magnetic and they were OK.
I replaced it with a non-magnetic screw. One of the ones that came with a Point 1. I had a couple.
I don't have time to go to the lake today to check on the water, but I did pull the boat out of the garage. When I went to calibrate the unit, it STILL times out immediately?
When I had the boat out of the garage in the open, in the data sources menu, the Point 1 showed as a valid source for GPS but still "invalid" for vessel heading.
This is driving me nuts!
mine was very erratic, sometimes it was ok and other times it would move to the left when on plane. A couple times when I was off plane it would be facing backwards and I would have to disconnect and reconnect it to make it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyred
I had a couple times it went to sleep and I had to disconnect and reconnect.
There were a couple times it would not calibrate but most of the time it did.
This went on for weeks and was very confusing and frustrating. I found the problem by checking the resistance in the backbone.
Your Point 1 is not providing heading data at all, moving or stationary. GPS is capable of inferring heading as long as the boat is moving. Consider, the boat moves 10’ forward, the GPS infers your direction of travel and keeps the icon pointed in the correct heading. Now consider you are sitting still pointing north. You begin to drift south and the GPS infers that you are moving that direction. It spins the icon (or the map depending on settings) to face south. What you are seeing while moving is normal GPS inference of direction. The heading sensor tells the GPS the direction the bow is facing and keeps it there regardless of drift. Your Point 1 is not functioning at all, moving or sitting still. You can verify this by disconnecting the Point 1. The icon will point correctly as long as you are moving.
If the symptoms you see are map spinning or icon flipping direction, the heading sensor is nonfunctional and your GPS is inferring heading by movement. If the icon is simply pointing in a direction other than where the bow is facing, it can be magnetic interference or an issue with settings. Question, in the map settings do you have it set to Heading Up? Finally, the Point 1 could be bad, but I kind of doubt that.
NoCAL
Sounds like 1 of 2 possibilities. #1 - NMEA2K network is not functioning properly. #2 you keep getting Point One antennas that are not equipped with a heading sensor or defective heading sensor. If you can see the Point One antenna and select it as a GPS source that would rule out the non-functioning NMEA2K network possibility. That leaves #2 as the only real possibility. Might want to take your antenna and hook it up to a buddies boat/NMEA2K network and see if it functions in that environment.
NoCal, my charts are set to Heads Up. Thanks for your reply and sticking with the thread.
Yupitsme, I can see and select my Point 1 in the device list.
Unfortunately replacing the magnetic screw I found yesterday used to secure the antenna to the boat deck did not fix the heading data problem. Same as before on the water this morning.
Lowrance shares that they got the antenna from their warehouse yesterday, will calibrate it this evening, and ship it to me Friday. Should have it early next week.
I know I'm late to the show but I seem to remember that Lowrance sold some Point 1s without the heading sensor. Is it possible this is one of those units?
... they do/did sell a Point 1 without a compass yes. As much as I have been in touch with Lowrance, and they have checked my serial number, I cannot imagine having the wrong unit. Anyway, new one is being calibrated by them so kinda hard to mix that up.
Keep us updated when you get your replacement and if that fixes your problem....
... will do, Al
So an update on my Point 1, NMEA problem:
I discovered that I had one or two bad T-connectors. One that I am almost certain was bad was the T-connector for the power node. I kept shrinking the size of the network, removing nodes until I could get that smaller network to work. I found that I could not get a network that consisted only of power, console HDS and Point 1 to work. When I changed the T-connector for the power, it started working.
My narrow definition of "NMEA network not working" was when the Point 1 would not provide accurate heading data. When the Point 1 was not working, it showed as "invalid" in the data source settings for "heading". It still would provide accurate GPS position and did NOT show as "invalid" at the same time for that GPS source setting. When I fixed the simple 3-node network mentioned above by replacing the T-connector to the power node, the Point 1 went from "invalid" to working properly, provided accurate heading data.
When I added the 2 nodes at the bow back into the NMEA network, the Point 1 started showing as "invalid" again... no heading data. I isolated it to the node for my Motorguide Tour Pro TM. I replaced that T-connector for the TM node and it started working in my garage. I thought the problem was solved.
Unfortunately when I went fishing yesterday and started using the TM, the Point 1 started showing as "invalid"... no heading data! Ugh! I removed the TM node from the network to confirm and yes that fixed the heading data for the rest of my trip.
I have tried 2 different new T-connectors on that TM node and neither fixed my issue. I am stumped. Any ideas?
When the TM is plugged into the NMEA network and working properly the user can control the TM via their HDS units. I am presently losing that functionality to maintain accurate heading data.
Same problem with MG Tour Pro 36. I just disconnected Tour Pro from NMEA network because, when it was powered, it took over primacy for heading input to network. Its a software issue with the MG Tour Pro and Lowrance interface, IMO. I never used my Carbons to control the TM anyway, so no lost functionality for me.
Barry, wow interesting you have the same problem on your setup. I was kind of expecting crickets from the group.
While I am not glad you are also having a problem, at least this may mean there is a problem with Motorguide or Lowrance and not something unique to our install or setups.
So I use Carbon units, too. So I guess we cannot eliminate either the Carbons or the Tour Pro.
Have you reached out to tech support with this to either Lowrance or Motorguide? I know... not fun.
I am going to start new threads... one in "Lowrance Sonar/GPS" and one in "Electrical/Wiring/Trolling Motors" to see if there are others with the same issue and any with solutions.
As I mentioned in the other thread, this has been a source of contention between Lowrance and Motorguide, and ultimately is the reason Lowrance decided to manufacture the Ghost motor. Interface issues are the problem, and Lowrance cannot fix Motorguide's side of the equation, and ultimately designed the Ghost to solve all interface issues and keep Lowrance customers happy.
Problem solved!!!
Lowrance technical support replied to my request for help:
"I hate to hear that you are still having some issues in regards to the Point 1. I reached out to some of my gurus and they seem to think that the trolling motor is messing with our PGN sentences. They recommended to try and change the instance for the Point 1 and then reboot everything. You can change the instance by going to your settings>network> device list >choose point 1 > configure and change the instance from 000 to 001."
This fixed my heading data issue when the Tour Pro was powered on and plugged into the NMEA network. When testing the failure, the TM has to be out in the open and must get a GPS lock. As soon as it GPS locks, it will start messing up the Point 1's heading data if there is a conflict with the instances of the devices.
It is not enough that the TM is powered on and deployed, it must have a GPS lock to cause failure. I learned this the hard way today while trying to re-create the heading data failure in my garage before changing the instance of the Point 1. I could not get it to fail when I realized the TM was not getting a GPS lock. Pushed the boat out of the garage, TM got GPS lock, and heading data from the Point 1 promptly failed.
Hope this long ordeal I have had to work through helps someone here.
Motor Guides Trolling Motors XI5 is the only model Lowrance Supports with its software built into the units, Some have gotten the XI3 to work but Lowrance says XI5 is the only model qualified.
... I have had two Xi5 units in the past hooked to Lowrance HDS units and the control software worked fine. The Tour Pro works just as well. The control software has always worked with the Tour Pro and my two Carbon units even when I was having the above heading data issues with the Point 1. It did not affect the control of the Tor Pro from the Lowrance.
Glad you got it resolved. Instance issues is one of several reasons I do not recommend using more than one Point-1 on the same network as well.