http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/in...?topic=10327.0
Note: I’m not saying it won’t work - I’m saying HB seems to be saying “better not hook a 9 HW with 9 M SIDB Y cable to a G2N ...
Rickie
http://forums.sideimagingsoft.com/in...?topic=10327.0
Note: I’m not saying it won’t work - I’m saying HB seems to be saying “better not hook a 9 HW with 9 M SIDB Y cable to a G2N ...
Rickie
Well that is news. I just knocked the 9 20 transducer out of my bilge and received the 9 HW transducer in the mail today. I hope this isn't the case but I'm glad I haven't installed it yet. Can't wait to read these responses.
Rickie, They did not tell you what it would do to the unit? I have a solix with that setup and certainly looks like the software has options to that affect. I was sure Helix had settings for the HW transducer also. If anybody gets the whole story please post it. There will be many anxiously waiting. Thanks for the warning RickieQuote:
Originally Posted by rnvinc
Seems like this is a big secret! I find absolutely no mention anywhere on the site. Descriptions or manuals. They have (HW)transducer made for Helix as shoot through that all show compatible with g2 and g3. No notes saying caution about anything. To void a warranty will take more that some help desk employee telling a couple people will not serve as legal notice. Something smells fishy here. Bob
HMMM .... I thought sure there were people on here who had successfully used the HW transducer and Y cable that way. Hope we can find the reason they are recommending against this.
There are but not sure if anyone did on a g2 helix. We also don't know what the problem might look like or if this, I will call it a rumor at this point affects any other models or generations. Bob
This is the answer I received from my contact at HB ... (after the post on sideimagingsoft was entered and I didn’t have an answer for the poster) ...
QUOTE: My apologies for the delay in response as I wanted to ensure that I was getting the correct information.
In general, the G3N models can use either the 9 20 or the 9 HW transducer with the y-cable in conjunction with their MSI+ transducer. This will not cause any issues but when they are using the 9 20 transducer, it may not give them the clarity they would expect with the original HW application.
With the G2N models, they will not be able to use the HW transducer via the y-cable in conjunction with the MSI transducer included. The unit is not programmed to accommodate this application so will need to continue to use only the 9 20 transducer for high speed readings. The HW can only be connected to the G2N models if they are going direct without the y-cable and is chosen as the connected transducer. UNQUOTE
Notice the 1st line that my contact was delayed in answering until confirming the info to be given ...(my contact usually knows all the answers - it’s unusual my contact needs confirmation) ...
I realize that some may have already set up this scenario with no ill effects ... and I have no intention of my personal recommendation either way ... (I can’t reason this in my mind either because the Y cable is just wires) ... (Remember - any transmit signal can be pushed thru any piezo - but that doesn’t mean it’s good for the transmitter or the piezo - so there may be issues we are not aware of) ...
I’m simply bringing this info up I received (from a reliable source at HB) to start a discussion ... to see if we can determine more information from sources ... before we (as HB helpers on the forums) get into a situation where we are giving advice to users that may damage their units or void their warranty ...
Rickie
I think there was a problem with one of the DI units using the US2 transducer .... that we never fully understood either. Must be something similar .... some sort of impedance mis-match or some such.
Interesting.... just thinking out loud here.... but could this have anything to do with why those Bass Pro/ Cabelas black Friday units came with a different (updated) si transducer than the original gen2's came with? Wonder if this same warning applies to those units?
Like I said... just thinking out loud. I did actually add a 9 hw to my bilge to use with my gen2 helix si unit, but ended up changing to a gen 3 si unit before I ever got to test it out. Maybe glad I didn't use that combo after reading this.
Minn Kota still does not list any numbered core series DI nor HELIX 5&7 DI G1 as compatible with US2 ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob B
https://www.minnkotamotors.com/learn...sal-sonar-2#HB
Rickie
I encourage anyone with HB contacts to search for more information until we get a better understanding of why HB may be recommending not to use the 9 HW in a Y cable scenario with HELIX G2N ...
Rickie
I just joined this forum this morning after purchasing my 1st Humminbird product yesterday (Helix 10 SI g2n). I came across this post and thought maybe I could offer my thoughts.
I am most familiar with Garmin and Lowrance. I spent 2 hours at cabelas yesterday before finally pulling the trigger. I was originally going in with the intention to purchase the Solix 10 after about 20 hrs of online research over the past few weeks. Cabelas had a great price (Black Friday deal) on the Helix 10 g2n, so after playing with the Helix 10 (g2n & g3n) and Solix 10 units side by side, and reviewing all the specification differences and making my final comparisons, I just COULD NOT justify spending $1,500 more for the Solix 10, and got the Helix 10 Mega g2n.
On to my opinion about the "y cable" and running two ducers on the Helix 10 g2n... During my time in the store yesterday, I chatted with Humminbird to confirm this very question. Could I run two transducers with the y cable thru the g2n? Their answer was, yes. By the way, when I opened the box last night and pulled out the upgraded 9 HW MSI+ ducer, that was a big surprise. But, here is where I think the confusion is... The original message that started this post referred to running a 9 HW thru hull and 9 HW MSI transducer. The only way the y cable works is with one CHIRP/9 HW transducer. In my application, I will be using the y cable with the 9 HW MSI+ ducer included with the package, with a "dual beam/freq (50/200)" airmar thru hull, Not DUAL SPECTRUM Chirp 9 HW thru hull like the user stated in the original post. As previously mentioned, the y cable splits the dual freq from the 9 HW MSI +, therefore only allowing it to run a dual beam/freq 50/200 thru hull while running the 9 HW MSI+ on the other end of the Y cable.
The HB rep confirmed with me yesterday this would work. So, my conclusion is, don't try to run two Chirp ducers off the Y cable. Run one 9 HW MSI+ and one non-chirp dual beam/freq. 50/200 thru hull.
Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnvinc
Default 2D for those units is 200/455 kHz. The US2 is 83/200 kHz.Quote:
Originally Posted by rnvinc
It's been discussed, here is one. http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=1004225
I have still only tried it briefly, just to see if it worked and it did. Helix 10 SI MEGA G2N with HW 2D connected with Y cable.
cards 21 at what post # does the discussion get to this topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cards21
post 67 or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDP
I have my Helix 10 G2N unit connected to the si/di/2d transducer that comes with this unit. I also have a Mega DI transducer with lowQ 2d connected via y cable to this same unit. I've been using it now since the latest update. The 2d is much improved over the standard 2d. So far no issues for me and I've used my allot in this time period. Not sure what the issue could be.
Can you hold bottom reading and mark fish at 25 mph?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royt
Yes! I usually run my boat in the low 30's and have no problem reading depth at that speed. I have even marked some brush piles on the ends of points while running twenty something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mipasadyn
Well I've read through all the responses and I'm still not sure what I'm reading. So I just bought the 9 HW thru hull to put on my new Helix 12 G2N that came from BPS with the new HW transducer. So am I good to install it with the Y cable or no?
I have the same setup and am wondering the same thing. I tried it out last weekend and worked fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinnerb8
I've been running the XP 9 HW transducer for several months now. It is hooked up to my Helix 10 SI Mega Chirp G2N unit via the 9 M SIDB Y cable. I guess I can switch over to my old transducer still in the bilge alongside the HW transducer. Just a matter of disconnecting/connecting the cables under the console. Left the old transducer there as a backup just in case.
So damn many issues with HB any more that it makes me regret not switching to Lowrance when I had the chance as I replaced my 998s with Helix units.
If it works why would you switch? Until Humminbird has an official statement this is just a rumor. Has anyone had any hardware problems that is using an HW transducer on a Y cable? Bob
Why wait until I see damage done? Then it might ge awfully expensive to fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcoy
Please understand ... the only info from HB we have at this time is the 1st line customer service reply noted at sideimagingsoft from that poster noted in post #1 of this thread ... and my contact confirming the info ...
We must realize that “just because it works” doesn’t mean that HB is going to warranty your product if it fails ... (I can run US2 and a Y cable thru a numbered core series DI unit and it works - but my warranty is voided as per the Minn Kota compatibility website) ...
Now I agree we don’t have definitive public documentation from HB that its not OK ... but we also don’t have definitive public documentation from HB that it is OK (as far as warranty) ...
Remember ... a warranty protects the “company” as much (or more) than it protects the user ...
It’s your warranty - do what you want (I frequently push outside the warranty - but that’s my choice) ...
Personally I will not recommend this Setup to users on the forums until we have a better understanding ...
(Note: There are others that are checking with their sources) ...
Rickie
Here is the short version of the damage concern:
The G2N SI 2017/2018 unit's default 2D frequency is 83/200 kHz. 83 kHz is too powerful for the HW piezo. If your unit does not have a setting to change to HW CHIRP, do not connect a transducer to it that has HW in the model name. If you do, the HW piezo will burn out, maybe cause a short circuit and damage the unit processor. The only way to have HW 2D is to change the setting to Built-in HW+MSI. Use that setting if you have it or install software that provides that setting.
Before you make that change, go to the Setup menu and write down the default settings for Start and End frequencies CHIRP SI and CHIRP DI. After you do the Connected Transducer change, go back to the Setup menu and change the frequency spectrums back to the original numbers. That way your unit will perform as designed with its included SI transducer.
So .... There's only a problem if the transducer selection isn't done correctly .... and the default transducer setting will not be correct?
I suspect it is the same with the DI units and US2 ..... If the transducer setting is correct there won't be a problem.
I think the concern is that the Connected Transducer default setting in G2N older software is “MEGA Imaging” but doesn’t say anything about 200kHz/83kHz ... and 83kHz is the damage concern ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob B
As Wayne noted - to use any HW xducer - only use a Connected Transducer selection of “Built in HW+MSI” ... or update software to get that selection ...
That should set the 2d transmitter to push the HW piezo correctly ...
Rickie
OK, I've made changes to my setup (Helix 10 SI Mega Chirp G2N unit using an XP 9 HW transducer in the bilge and a Mega Y cable) based on what I've read here and responses to PMs.
- Connected Transducer = Built-In HW+MSI
- Display Frequency = High (Do not use the Low or Medium setting as that would damage the HW piezo and the unit for reasons mentioned above by Rickie and Wayne)
- 2D Sonar Chirp Frequency = Start 140 kHz, End 240 kHz
- DI Chirp = 1150 - 1275
- SI Chirp = 1150 - 1275
- Display Spectrum = Full
- Di Display Spectrum = Mega Chirp
- SI Display Spectrum = Mega Chirp
If I understand this issue correctly, with these settings I can continue to use my HW transducer with this unit and Y cable w/o damaging the transducer and/or unit. Basically, these settings avoid using the Med or Low frequencies which can cause the damage HB has warned us about.
This is a critical issue for those of us using the HW transducer on a G2 unit via a 9 M SIDB Y cable, so free to review, comment, correct anything I've misunderstood.
The extra step to actually set the frequency ranges makes it more complicated ..... and may be why Humminbird was recommending not to use this combination. A user will have to remember to do these settings any time the device is reset to default thru the life of the setup.
Good catch :thumb up2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob B
Just so I understand, those of us that just purchased the Cabelas/ BPS g2n Helix 10 with the HW transducer is ok to run the HW shoot thru transducer with y cable. Correct?
Yes your unit is already tuned to the included transducer which includes the HW piezo and the settings to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mkm
The only thing you would be doing is changing the location of the HW piezo.
Thanks Wayne, PM sent also with another question.
"DANGER Will Roberston DANGER"---quote from Lost in Space.Quote:
Originally Posted by mkm
Brown trout and others... did You have to change the chirping ranges for the 800 and 455 ranges as well or just set the mega ranges appropriately?
If you want all the frequencies to function at their best, you change all the frequency spectrums to match the connected transducer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachzee20
If you don't use any of the other frequencies, it makes no difference.
This thread has been a lot of help and I think is going to save me a lot of money. I just installed a Helix 12 Chirp Mega DI G3N CHO on the bow replacing a Helix 9 Mega SI GN2 GPS getting ready for Mega 360. I have it connected to the Mega DI ducer on the Ulterra right now and will need the mega Y cable to connect the Mega 360. Right how it is connected to the old 360 by Ethernet. I have another 10" Mega SI G2N GPS on the bow and one on the console. I was thing I was going to have to replace both of those with new Mega SI+ units with a XM 9 HW MSI /T ducer on the stern. If I am reading all these post right all I need is the ducer and will just loose the low freqs and some range. I don't use the low freqs and seldom run the range pass 80' anyway. I down loaded the update for the G2N units also. Don
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Johnson
That makes no sense.
The only frequencies you loose is the 2D 83/200 kHz and that is replaced by HW CHIRP. You don't loose any of the Imaging frequencies.
A G3N has the same Imaging frequencies as the G2N.
Sorry Wayne I guess I didn't have my mind wrapped around this using a XM 9 HW MSI /T with my old G2N units. I only use D2 to the bow unit that is used for Navigation My fishing buddy runs it and the tm while we push jigs for crappies. I use the two 12" units one for LiveScope and the other for SI or 360. The 2 units on the console are only used one for nav and the other SI when running to the area we are fishing for the day. being all these lakes are small we fish that is for very long. I leave the Helix 10 on because it is connected to the ducer on the transom which is shared over the network. Guess I will get a new ducer then for the transom. Don