Flashing An Outboard

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Originally Posted by GOTTA BIG SACK

Isn't the stock motors with no flash supposed to be a tad over the said HP? If so every boat is overpowered.

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Outboard manufacturers have 10% wiggle room on HP rating.

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Originally Posted by shall36

I still haven’t seen a legal theory in all of these posts that links flashing an outboard motor to increased liability associated with operating a boat in a safe fashion. I put forth the theory that an overpowered boat that suffers some sort of structural failure or an overpowered boat that is operated at a speed it wasn’t designed to operate at resulting in an accident could make it much easier for a victim to make the case that the operator is 100% responsible for all damages. What I haven’t seen is a theory that says that someone in an overpowered boat who is themselves a victim of another operator or causes damage that has nothing to do with the boat being overpowered is somehow automatically more liable for damages. I sort of get the sense that people don’t understand how Litigation works. Not that I’m an expert by any means.

I can sue anyone for anything that I want. I think I’ll sue some of the people on this board for being exasperating, but I am unlikely to win.

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Who said that ??

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Originally Posted by shall36

I still haven’t seen a legal theory in all of these posts that links flashing an outboard motor to increased liability associated with operating a boat in a safe fashion. I put forth the theory that an overpowered boat that suffers some sort of structural failure or an overpowered boat that is operated at a speed it wasn’t designed to operate at resulting in an accident could make it much easier for a victim to make the case that the operator is 100% responsible for all damages. What I haven’t seen is a theory that says that someone in an overpowered boat who is themselves a victim of another operator or causes damage that has nothing to do with the boat being overpowered is somehow automatically more liable for damages. I sort of get the sense that people don’t understand how Litigation works. Not that I’m an expert by any means.

I can sue anyone for anything that I want. I think I’ll sue some of the people on this board for being exasperating, but I am unlikely to win.

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Well maybe “sue” was a little strong verbiage and hold responsible for their actions would have been less abrasive. I have a great friend that is a 20 plus year judge and asked him his opinion. If he agrees I will post his opinion from a legal aspect.

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Originally Posted by Elwood

Flashing an ecu does not make a true 300 plus engine. Many other things go with a HP upgrade. My 300r has proven that several times. I know this will not be popular with you flash guys and gals but, If I am ever involved in an accident with a SHO the first thing I am going to is have the motor checked for a flash. If the flash over rates the hull I will sue. It is fine if you want to increase HP but don’t over rate the hull. Does not seem to matter to most folks and Nizpro should enforce that. It is illegal to run more HP than the hull is rated for. Someone is going to get burned.

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it is not illegal. You, sir, are simply talking outta your ass.

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Originally Posted by Elwood

Well maybe “sue” was a little strong verbiage and hold responsible for their actions would have been less abrasive. I have a great friend that is a 20 plus year judge and asked him his opinion. If he agrees I will post his opinion from a legal aspect.

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You are going to seriously ask a judge for his opinion on boats having altered ecms under their cowlings.
Youre a character.
I guess I shouldn’t tell ya what I have done to my tow vehicle…I’m not sure if your heart could handle it. :roll:

I was a repair tech and service manager that did outboards

the manufacturer can and did (at that time) deny claims because of tuned ecu's.

I won't say which brand I worked with as it's just gonna cause a ruckus anyway.

they wanted digital pics of the engine, lower, ecu, etc, and later a download of the ecu (basically you hook it up, send them what they asked for and hope for the best).

remember a tuned ecu enables a lot more power and torque. Can the boat take it? Can the lower unit take it? Everything connected to the engine is susceptible.

also it was mentioned that some motors are identical with changes made to increase hp. That's not exactly the case but I'll leave that for y'all to argue about.

If there was a powerhead failure that was directly resultant of the ecu's tune, they denied it. Had a few really mad customers, all said they were gonna take it to court but I (service manager/tech) had nothing to do with it-it was between customer and tuner; all I did was let the mfg make the decision and then relay the decision to the owner.

a lot of times it was a don't ask/don't tell affair. IF they didn't want a download, I didn't send it. But the last year I did it (2020) they wanted download for every engine that had a claim, even if it was a cowling seal, although I doubt that they'd ever deny something like that over a ecu tune. However, if they noted in their system that it showed an ecu tune, and later on there was a problem, that may become an issue.

was a good career but I'm glad I got out of it

I also did tractors and "delete kits" were a thing. Clutch gone? Broken transmission? If it was deleted, warranty would NOT cover it. Of course the clutches aren't generally covered anyway. That also was a big deal. Trucks are similar. Some dealers won't touch them if they're deleted and the tractor mfg I worked under advised us of the same. Said that if we knew the emissions equipment was tampered with, we had two options: replace the tampered emissions devices or tell the owner to come get it. Reason being, if it was tampered with and we said nothing and if for some reason a claim went to court and it wasn't noted, the dealer sets themselves up for some liability. And having dealt with the feds, I can tell you from my own experience, they are no fun to deal with. None at all.

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Originally Posted by lugbolt

I was a repair tech and service manager that did outboards

the manufacturer can and did (at that time) deny claims because of tuned ecu's.

I won't say which brand I worked with as it's just gonna cause a ruckus anyway.

they wanted digital pics of the engine, lower, ecu, etc, and later a download of the ecu (basically you hook it up, send them what they asked for and hope for the best).

remember a tuned ecu enables a lot more power and torque. Can the boat take it? Can the lower unit take it? Everything connected to the engine is susceptible.

also it was mentioned that some motors are identical with changes made to increase hp. That's not exactly the case but I'll leave that for y'all to argue about.

If there was a powerhead failure that was directly resultant of the ecu's tune, they denied it. Had a few really mad customers, all said they were gonna take it to court but I (service manager/tech) had nothing to do with it-it was between customer and tuner; all I did was let the mfg make the decision and then relay the decision to the owner.

a lot of times it was a don't ask/don't tell affair. IF they didn't want a download, I didn't send it. But the last year I did it (2020) they wanted download for every engine that had a claim, even if it was a cowling seal, although I doubt that they'd ever deny something like that over a ecu tune. However, if they noted in their system that it showed an ecu tune, and later on there was a problem, that may become an issue.

was a good career but I'm glad I got out of it

I also did tractors and "delete kits" were a thing. Clutch gone? Broken transmission? If it was deleted, warranty would NOT cover it. Of course the clutches aren't generally covered anyway. That also was a big deal. Trucks are similar. Some dealers won't touch them if they're deleted and the tractor mfg I worked under advised us of the same. Said that if we knew the emissions equipment was tampered with, we had two options: replace the tampered emissions devices or tell the owner to come get it. Reason being, if it was tampered with and we said nothing and if for some reason a claim went to court and it wasn't noted, the dealer sets themselves up for some liability. And having dealt with the feds, I can tell you from my own experience, they are no fun to deal with. None at all.

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No need to say the brand, that has Mercury written all over it.

I doubt too many of you guys have actually been sued. I have, both personally, and through my employer.

Plaintiff's attorneys are very thorough. Should you be running a souped up boat, they will find out.

Then, all they have to do is convince a sympathetic jury that your, from the plantiff's viewpoint, negligence in some part contributed to the accident and you just lost everything you have. Remember this will be a civil suit, not a criminal trial. The burden of proof in a civil suit consists of convincing most of the jurors. Much less than a criminal trial.

Just to go 3 - 4 mph faster.

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Originally Posted by 21XDC

Because there are some that will sue for anything.... Sad world we live in. Describes character.

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I would approach it from the perspective of a lawyer coming after you. No telling what charges they could have imposed as I'm not a lawyer but that is what they are paid to do.

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Originally Posted by Dixie-Raven

I would approach it from the perspective of a lawyer coming after you. No telling what charges they could have imposed as I'm not a lawyer but that is what they are paid to do.

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Lawyers get Murderers/Rapists off Scott free with loop holes.... Scum bags!

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Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen

You are going to seriously ask a judge for his opinion on boats having altered ecms under their cowlings.
Youre a character.
I guess I shouldn’t tell ya what I have done to my tow vehicle…I’m not sure if your heart could handle it. :roll:

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And what kind of character are you for not wanting to know the implications for you and your family for the actions you take? That is a slight miscalculation on your part!

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Originally Posted by PatriotAW4

No need to say the brand, that has Mercury written all over it.

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I should have stated, 2 manufacturers of outboards.

if one were to read the warranty statement, often they include "modifications that are not approved by the manufacturer" (or similarly worded) as a specific exclusion.

apparently most fishermen dont read the book they get with their motor an rather than call the manufacturer of the motor to ask if its ok to bump the hp up it is much more convenient to get on the net an ask folks about what a motor manufacturer has to do if their motor fails. in real honesty they dont want to know .

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Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen

it is not illegal. You, sir, are simply talking outta your ass.

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:doh:Shots fired.

The Yamaha SHO 4.2 is engineered to run at 330hp (as the 300 offshore) within a certain rpm range, so I don't really see a mechanical reason for not doing it (other reasons maybe).
My opinion: All major companies (insurance, auto, manufacturers, etc.) have entire divisions of staff whose only job in life is to find reasons to deny claims that would eat into their profits. I can't imagine that Yamaha, as one of the largest companies in the universe would not also. And now that flashing is being talked about more and more, they are surely becoming more aware of it....again, only my opinion
p.s. looks like this thread has potential for being the longest one in BBC history :nanner:

https://i.postimg.cc/qRXbT8v3/IMG-1270.jpg

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Originally Posted by McQuaig

p.s. looks like this thread has potential for being the longest one in BBC history :nanner:

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:roll: Not even close.

I understand guys desires to get more with less but knowing that it might void the warranty is a big risk to take IM on something that already runs good ( presumably) in the name of getting a few more HP. I am not understanding this part. This from a guy with a 115 that i had a high score 46 MPH on last week and I am more than happy with that. They guy that speeds off at the light in a red vette impresses me no more than the bass cat passing me after take off, long as my name is ahead of his at weigh in right!!!

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Originally Posted by Elwood

And what kind of character are you for not wanting to know the implications for you and your family for the actions you take? That is a slight miscalculation on your part!

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I’m the fun loving kinda character.

Man this has been all over the place.....I hate that adults can not have a discussion with out the name calling or just down right rudeness because it does not fit their agenda. I knew, as said before that I would not be popular throwing out some facts about flashing a motor above the manufacturers recommendations and the fact that a 200 can be made to think that is is a true 300+ when it is not. Please talk to any real outboard mechanic about the additional items from intake to exhaust differences on a 200 hp and a 300 hp with the same block. Plus the original poster asked "Flashing an Outboard?". It can't be all good.....lol

1. Flashing above manufacturing recommendations.
-Legal ramifications:
--I have talked with one of my best friends that is an active judge, bass boat owner, and tournament fisherman, here are his comments. Your liability for over powering your boat is situational. Kind of like if you are idling and hit someone with the prop then it is an accident and the motor will not be judged. If you are running and get into an accident then your flash can be taken into consideration in both criminal and civil court. Of course the outcome with be determined on how much speed and the extend of property damage and injuries are concerned. In some cases especially civil it doesn't have to be your fault because if the extra HP has been deemed to have contributed to the accident then you may be held liable. That is the short version of the legal side.
--Insurance may or may not cover you if you let them know that you have increased the HP or if it has over powered the hull you are running. If they right the policy then if you are involved in an accident they will legally have to cover but will not renew the policy. Severely over powered and they may have some recourse against the policy holder.
-In the end I don't think that it is worth it! Your life your family your decision........