Larry, I am starting tomorrow on building the frame for lifting the top cap. I want to take pictures and post them as i move along. I can post them on bbc or use a host like Shutterfly instead?
Thanks
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Larry, I am starting tomorrow on building the frame for lifting the top cap. I want to take pictures and post them as i move along. I can post them on bbc or use a host like Shutterfly instead?
Thanks
Pics would be super great.
I'm facing this same challenge, but will wait till winter to dive in.
Mine was caused by a rather great fisherman but as well rather stupid when it comes to construction sense. He mounted ducers and speed wheels above the step, figured he messed up, DUH they did not work on plane, moved them, but filled holes with silicone and standard screws. I caught this problem many years ago, sucked water and such out of the mess up, sorta knew this event would be forth coming. Hey that was 10 years ago, I can't say as I'm crying.
BTW use West System epoxy for your wood prep and build up, it's much better than FG resin, penetrates deep, also replaces rot doctor at a much less price.
I'd also wager the damage to your FG from the plate came after it was rotted, I know mine did! In fact mine showed up this year, probably could have been seen last year but did not take a close look.
Have you thought about just cutting out the FG from the back side of the transom, replacing the wood then replacing the fg back side?
Ive seen pics of the three methods, cap removal and dig, Fg layer removal and dig replace, and the cast method. I too am uncomfortable with the casting method as well.
Stringer infestation is a major consideration, such of course needs to be dealth with at the same time if it exists in your boat or mine.
http://www.bassboatcentral.com/boardstuff2/pimp2.gif
I'm going to work on my lift this evening and hopefully start lifting the top tomorrow. I have gotten all of the top cap cut loose with the exception of inside the rod boxes. I have a cutting tool and it will be easy using that to cut it loose. I was able to get the splashwell loose from the transom and epoxy/bondo underneath. I wasd very lucky to have gotten the top cap loose from the transom and not having to cut the lip of the fiberglass off the top splashwell. I will be able to reassemble it back and will look like it did when built in 90. I am going to lift the top cap and i'm not attempting to cut the back of the boat off. I think with talking with Arron (Skeeter transom repair on this site) that it is easier to just lift the top and take measurements and take them again and then prefit everything and resin and install.
I spoke with Robbie at Stratos customer service yesterday and he said i was lucky to have gotten that top cap loose from the transom that most of the time you have to cut the fiberglass lip on the splashwell in order to be able to separate the top cap and hull. From what i gather my transom is about 3' wide and it has 45degree miter cuts tieing back into the inside of the boat back. I'm going to replace the transom,knee braces, and the top support board for the transom as well as possibly adding some additional bracing. I also have screw holes on the backside of the fiberglass transom from previous transducer screw holes and even two screw holes into the knee braces for some previous rigged bilge pump wires.....
I'm going to fiberglass the holes on the inside of the transom and use epoxy to fill the exterior indention on the metalflake. I'M NOT GOING SCREWING ANY HOLES into the back of the new transom. I am having my transducers mounted on the inside hull. Only places there will be holes cut through are for the splashwell tubes and four motor mounting bolts. I also am replacing the wood inside the transom/battery compartment. The screw holes were not sealed where the three battery trays were and it has got some rot on the wood not to mention water oozzing out of the holes and when i cut that off i'm sure the flotation foam will be soaked. By doing this it will rid the rotten wood,less weight from soaked foam and not to mention keeping the boat floating if capsized....If the foam is soaked and in bad shape I will be looking for A B foam to replace it with. Not to mention i have a soft spot in the deck near the console.
I also am going to fiberglass the top of the transom where the aluminum trim will cover the finish. I'm not going down this road unless i hit something sumerged! Is the product your speaking about the same purity/quality as Rot doctor?
I'm thinking about at least using two layers of mat (possibly three) and then finish it off with some nice woven fiberglass. I saw a company on Ebay that makes their own fiberglass and was wondering if anyone have bought from them? They have black fiberglass woven and it looks nice!! I'm sure the Seacast method would work but i'm not use to it and like to stick to original wood building process....Have heard great things about it though!!! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/smile.gif
I have not decided as of yet if i'm going to use an colored epoxy to finish the entire surface off with and sand it down. I will see if that is overkill when i get to that point. What is your process/technique you plan on using when doing your transom as well as are you going to use some sort of Cpes? I'm going to prefit everything then cover all the wood in Cpes and then use resin/epoxy to bond the two pieces of 3/4" plywood together and then use stainless steel screws/clamps to hold both pieces of the wood together forming the new transom and also stainless steel screws to hole the new transom to the two knee braces. Got any thoughts or suggestions?
I also have a vent for ventilation on each side and am going to mold a box and attach a hose too and drop near the bilge ares. Looking at my transom i think it was possibly caused by not having any 5200 or lifecaulk sealing the transom underneath the aluminum trim plate on the splashwell, two ventilation scoops allowed water to enter at the top of the transom, excessive screw holes for previous trandsucer mounts and the big threat is the jackplate biting on the lower side of the transom exposing the wood. I am going to take lots of pictures for reference and to post on here.
Make sure you do use marine grade plywood or you will be dissapointed. Marine grade is more solid and from what i was told that where the knots in the wood were they fill them and it makes it solid...
Where did you find the Cpes product your talking about and it is about half the cost of Rot Doctor? Got a link for it?
If you have access to a digital camera please take some pictures to post on here and it will help for reassembly. Also make sure you label/mark everything before you disassemble the boat.
Keep me posted.
Thanks, Garland
I got the lifting support built yesterday and today the trop storm has brought rain all day and tomorrow. I'm going to attempt to lift it on Thursday depending on weather.....
Well i started on removing the top cap today. It turned out to be alot easier than i thought. I did buy two chain blocks one for each end. I think they are worth the money not to mention making it easy for one person to lift the top. I will post some pictures this week.
I got the top caplifted from the hull today. I also got about 85% of the wooden fllor removed and underneath was wet foam. I am going to use your approach and let the sun/heat dry it out. I noticed that there were screws in the floor for the hotfoot and also when the boat was manufactured there are two plastic covers that are on each side and i guees the javelins ideawas to let the water drain from the seating/console area and drain to the back of the boat. Problem is that the water does not drain in the channel of fiberglass, seems it goes whatever point/easiest access for draining. It looks like it did not work well and the water ending draining to the sides of the boat near the foam encased in wooden boxes/fiberglass and eventually soaked the cracked fiberglass and entered into the wood. I'm going to add a flexible hose on each side and have it drain into the bilge area. I'm glad i found your post and i used chain blocks to lift the front and back. I placed a chain on both of the front cleats and same for the back and it was actually easier than i thought it would be to lift it from the hull.
I'm going to also rewire alot of the switches while it is apart and might try to get new steering cables. It is like you mentioned in the earlier post that once the top cap and lower hull are seperated it is alot easier to understand the construction.
I looked the the flooring plywood and it appears to be 1/2" thick. I'm going to run the plywood grain to the sides of the boat. I think i will not need any foam except for some areas for missing foam. Is it hard to post pictures on Shutterfly? I have not kept a good diary of pictures to post.
Hope you been catching fish.....
G.
I have located marine grade plywood for 79 per sheet. I am going to use that for the transom and 1/2" plywood for the floor. I covered it yesterday with a tarp due to storms. I was wondering will it hurt to leave it covered for a week? The weather lately has been unpredictable. I want to get the foam dried out and hopefully soon be able to lay new wood and fiberglass for the floor.
I don't think it will hurt to leave it covered. Having it covered would be better than letting it get rained on. Just be sure that it is dryed completely through before you cover it with new ply. I am glad that you are coming along on your project. http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by javelin90 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm thinking about at least using two layers of mat (possibly three) and then finish it off with some nice woven fiberglass. I saw a company on Ebay that makes their own fiberglass and was wondering if anyone have bought from them? They have black fiberglass woven and it looks nice!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd have to see it to make a real opinion, but my first inclination is no. For the glass to be strong it has to be fully wetted(saturated with resin). With the white stuff, this is easy to tell because it goes from being white, to silver, to almost clear when its fully wetted. If you have black, how do you tell? Also keep in mind that woven is the most difficult glass to wet in the first place. Mat is easy except for the fact its a pain in the ass becauses it breaks apart into individual clumps. Eglass cloth is super easy as well, but woven is so heavy you really need to work the resin into the cloth. I wouldnt want to add any layer of difficulty to it.. Besides, if you want to color it, thats why they make paint http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif You are talking about the inside of the bilge, not making hoods for kids with Honda's and Eclipses...
Furthermore, Im skeptical of any product that is ONLY sold on ebay. Websites are easy to build, and a 'company' that is not professional enough to atleast build a website just gives the impression of being REALLY fly by night.
Speaking of wetting fiberglass, I would think that the colored glass would have its own characteristics when it came to showing WET. Anyhow when I was doing my rebuild the guy that helped me glass handed me a large paint brush. Probably 4 or 5 inch but it was thicher than most probably a good 1 or better. After appling a coat of resin to stick the glass to I then took the brush and added more resin on the top. Then took the brush and TAPPED ( dabbed ) the glass until it was completley saturated. This made for what appeared to me to do an excellent job. http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif
I ordered 2 gallons of rot doctor today. I am thinking on which type of fiberglass to use. I saw there is a fiberglass thatis biaxialand has a mat finish on the bottom side and a smooth finish on the top. The fiberglasssite.com site says it uses less epoxy resin and would give anice strong finish on the transom and knee brace supports. Speaking of which i did get the transom and knee braces out yesterday. I used a spreader/pry bar and worked my way along the edges and was able to keep all of the transom pieces intact. I'm going to use a template from the original pieces and allow an overlap and custom fit the new pieces. I also think some of my transom failure was due to water seeping from the vents on the side and then running back to the wood boxed frame that houses the flotation foam. I took all of the wooden boxed frame/flotation foma out and was also able to keep the pieces intact ot make and exact replacement from the original wood.
What kind of fiberglass did you use? Cloth or mat? Mat is strong but requires sanding betweenlayers.
Thanks for your answers, G.
From what I hear, mat isnt really all that strong. From what i heard woven is the strongest. Makes sense to me, woven has the heaviest fibers and they are continuous as opposed to being only 2-3" long and not bound.
I dont have experiance with epoxies, but when dealing with polyester resins, the glass has nothing to do with if you have to sand between coats, its the resin itself. Polyester speaking, theres laminating resin and finish resin. If you use laminating resin, as long as it didnt kick for good, you can put another layer on without sanding. If it loses its tackiness, you have to grind it. If you use the finish resin, you have to grind it between each layer.
Thanks for the information. I found this website called fiberglasssite.com. I spoke with Mike and they have a fiberglass cloth that has a mat finish on the bottom and a biaxial (45 degree) pattern on the top. He said it is stronger than mat and gives a nice clean finish. I am having to replace the deck floor and was going to apply two coats of glass/epoxy on the deck and at least 4 on the transom/knee braces. Is woven similar to cloth?
I am coating everything with rot doctor after making my cuts/fitting and then am glassing everything in. I took the transom and knee braces out on Sunday and under the good looking fiberglass the pieces are waterlogged and rotten. was able to remove all of the transom support pieces as well as the transom and keep them intact. I did notice that one of the knee braces had a gap about a 1/4" where the wood was not touching the transom/bottom inside of hull. I figured that i would use cardboard and cut my exact cut patterns and then transfer to wood.
Are you currently working on your floor or transom on your boat or have recently completed a project? Larry has helped me tremensdously with his pictures on shutterfly and on BBC. I have taken some pictures and wished i had taken more to get together to post on shutterfly to help out other bass members. It is like Larry said that once you get the top off from the hull it will make sense on how the pieces come apart as well as making it easier with reassembly. I am using marine grade plywood for the transom and trad. plywood for the deck/floor and also am going to predrill the holes for the decking and before setting the wood to the stringers i'm going to inject cpes into the screw holes for better protection from moisture.
Replacing a floor and transom is labor intensive and my hats off to the guys that do this everyday. I would have gone that route but my budget prevents me from doing so.
With that said i do enjoy learning new things and saving money along the way. I;m going to add additional knee brace for the transom. It seems from the two air vents on both sides that when water would enter it would go where ever and also get on top of the boxed wooden frame that protects the flotation foam and drip/seep inside till it worked its way to the edges of the transom. Not to mention about 8 transducer screw holes and motor mounting bolts not properly protected.
Thanks for your answers, G.
Well, I was going to do some pretty big fiberglass projects for cars a few years ago and did alot of reading, books, and videos.
I started a floor replacement in April, just before I was aware of this site. I cut out the floor and replaced it from the top. If I had seen Larry's thread before I made the cut, I probably would have seperated the cap and flipped it, then just did all the work on the bottom side of the floor. Thats why I didnt take a bunch of pics, because its probably not how I would have done it again.
I admit, Larrys pictures and information is invaluable, and Im about to be putting it to use myself. Second time out with the boat was the Saturday, and I lost power(and lost plane) and found the water only about 1.5" deep. I assume the skeg hit bottom and cracked the transom. Although it passed the tilt and lift test 2 weeks ago, I imagine it was still partially rotted and I just hit it hard enough to bust what was left loose. Now it flops around like a limp.. well you know. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/crying.gif
Im trying to figure out the logistics of this at the moment. I almost got evicted by the landlord as well as the boat towed away by the county for doing the floor replacement. Im now even more jealous of you guys with neighbors that mind their own business.. LOL. I may have a freind talked into letting me split the cap at his house and store the cap there, then I am considering storing the rest of the boat(large canoe at this point) at the local fish camp hitced to the truck. I guess I can go over in the car on Friday night and pick it up, then drive it back on Sunday. But its not a definate on splitting the cap at my friends house, and if he says ok, I need to think how I want to build the gantry. I wish he had a 20 foot long swingset :)
Woven is similar to cloth, but its very heavy. Figure cloth being panty material, woven would be like a Carhart jacket. Granted in real life cloth is heavier than a carhart, but its a magnitude of scale kind of thing.
All of the systems will give a resonably smooth finish. Mat will finish out fairly smooth. E glass will finish out very smooth. Woven will also finish out somewhat smooth, it will just have a woven appearance coming through. I wouldnt buy glass mail order, you order way too much or you have to stop in the middle to wait for more to arrive. I buy mine at a local auto body supplier. They have woven, mat, and e glass.
4 layers should get you something pretty damned strong. And if you are going to do that many layers, dont worry about getting special dual purpose glass. Put your layer of mat down first. It will bond with the wood better than cloth. From there, build up with e glass cloth or woven. When I did my floor I one layer of mat, one complete layer of cloth(with about 4 faired layers in the joints where the new floor met the walls), and then a layer of woven over the top. I was going to do one more layer of e glass cloth on top of the woven to make it nice and smooth, but got a case of the "f-its". At that point I had I dont know how many hours and Tyvek suits in, and I was just plain tired of working with resin. Not to mention right abut that time is when I got the letter from the city, and the next day a letter from the landlord. Between the work on the floor, the console, then reattaching the console to the floor, Im figuring getting the deck split and the engine off is going to be the biggest challenge to the job. Once the deck is off I figure with proper planning I can have all the transom repair done in 2 or 3 weekends and ready to accept the deck again.
One other thing to remember is what larry said about running the glass around the corners of the wood(like going over top of the braces, or around the edge if you are totally encapsulating the transom boards, which I think is a good idea). The glass does NOT like to do this. Home Depot sells some E glass in the paint section. Its so thin its pretty much crap for strength, but for going around the edges it works well. If you try to use the heavy stuff it will end up like a U and you will have a big air bubble between the wood and the glass work.
Oh yeah, check this place out.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
They have a real good name in the hobby airplane builder and custom car builder groups. They arent the cheapest on stuff, but they have alot of stuff. This is where I got my videos from.
If you only get one video from them, I recommend this one:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/...1.php
Its by an older guy who filmed the video in his shop with probably a friend working a cam corder. he starts out the video saying "We arent trying to win any awards, but pay attention and you will learn something". Its about as close as you can get to hanging out at a glass shop and having someone tell you what hes doing.
Thanks for your nice reply. I am glad to have neighbors that mind their own business. I can understand it though. Getting the top cap from the hull was easier than i thought. Robbie at Stratos said i got lucky that the transom/splashwell seperated so easliy. I guess the moisture and rot contributed to that. I looked at how the original cloth/mat was laid up around the transom and knee braces and it was not a good contact when done on the wood. I hope the rot doctor arrives tomorrow and on Thursday/Friday i plan on fitting/cutting the floor and placing multiple coats of it on all the wood and stringers. I hope next week i can get started on glassing everything in and following week the transom. It takes time but it it not impossible to do. Just time and patience. I have taken some pictures and will post them when i'm done with the rebuild. Let me know if you have any questions between then.
I will say that a pry/spreader bar works good for seperating the top cap from the hull but be very very careful when using on near the hull/transom. I learned it will make some cracks/blister spots. I had already drilled some 1/8" pilot holes to see how wet the transom was origianlly so it will add to the final repair.
I will write more later,
If you are having problems with shutterfly, go to http://www.photobucket.com. Its so easy a caveman can do it :)
Id actually be interested in seeing some pics of your gantry rig. Other than where I am going to put the cap, that is my biggest obstacle right now. Im trying to think of something that wont cost me 200-300 in material.
Hi there, I just replaced the floor in my 91 Stratos 201. The floation foam was soaked too. I just got a claw hammer and pulled it all out back to the seats. I had waited for the stuff to dry and waited for 2 weeks (with no rain) it was still wet and I had had enough. Out with the hammer, crowbar and OUT WET FOAM!
I plan to remove the tanks and the foam underneath after I run the fuel out of them. Seem to keep fueling and fishin' http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif
Seal everything wood with epoxy before placing it in the boat. That was what I was told by a fishing buddy whose business it is to repair glass on 5 milion$ yachts.
If you take your time and do it right the first time. (Sounds like that IS what you are doing) This project will be a one time thing. http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif
Carpet is next! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif
Here is a pic after I pulled the foam out.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...t/IMG_5626.jpg
I will get pictures posted on thursday. I basically used the same principle as a framed wooden wall. I laid a 2x4 16' long on the bottom and also one on the topand then spaced the 2x4 8' long on top of the bottom 2x4 and capped it woth the other 2x4 16' long. I spaced the 2x4 26" on center and then used a 4x4x10' long on each end over the boat and also nailed a 2x4 on the side to help with support lifting. I also used a closed hook for the two 4x4x10' pieces and clipped the chain block into each of the two 4x4x10' pieces. I got myself two chain blocks from Agri supply for about 32 bucks each. I treid to use a 2ton puller but it is not goof for this type of application. I like the chain blocks because one person can control the lifting and lowering of the top cap. after i built my two wooden frame walls and the chain blocks cost me about 150.00. Once i got the top caplifted i removed the hull/trailer from under the top cap and then lowered the top cap on wooden blocks to release the stress on my lifting frame. My neighbor commented on whata cheap but yet strong lifting system i had made. I will post pictures of it on Thursday.
Looks like a good job so far and in the making. The rot doctor porduct arriver this evening and i'm going to coat everything good before placing the new floor and transom back in the boat. I removed the foam in the back of my boat and am letting it dry. I am going to add some more flotation foam to the places where it is needed. There is a company in Florida call Us composites and they sell flotation a+b foam. I am taking my time and yes my wife is jealous but when i say i can stop and get a 10,000 rig she says, no hunnie it looks good so far. LOL
I am taking my time and when i set the wood decking for the floor i'm going to predrill my holes and then right before i set the screws in place i'm going to inject Epoxy into the hole. I am going to take my time and add at least 4 layers of glass and resin on the new transom. I also am going to add addtional knee braces for better support from the hull to the transom. I also AM NOT going to have any holes for transducers or nothing screwed into the back exterior of the transom. I also noticed thaton both of the knee braces on the side that there were two screws drilled into for a support of the aerator pumps. I'm going to engineer/build a board for all of the aerators to mount to and alleviate anything penetrating the new braces. This project is a labor of love but worth a learning experience and once done a sense of overwhelming pride when i get on the water.
So have you completed your floor yet? Are you replacing the foam with new?
Thanks, G.