Could This Accident Put the Future of MLF In Jeopardy?

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Originally Posted by n2theblue

I've been a lurker for a while but wanted to jump in and answer a few of these



This will be tough, unless they have some proof that MLF actively did something along the chain of causation that lead to the accident. Just holding a tournament is in itself not negligence. The decisions of individual boaters usually break the chain of causation.



It is highly unlikely punitive damages come into play in a case like this.



Contributory negligence doesn't just limit a claim, it defeats it entirely. If plaintiff is the slightest bit at fault, they get nothing. It's a harsh doctrine, which is why most states have done away with it.



I've seen lots and lots of talk about fog, but the only posts I've seen from people who were actually there say fog/visibility wasn't an issue




Negligence is the failure to behave with the level of care that a reasonable person would have exercised under the same circumstances. I don't think there's any way MLF can be held negligent UNLESS there were weather conditions in play. Just having a tournament is not negligent.



Damages awards from a trial are based on a number of factors including loss of income, but settlements are more based on insurance limits.

MLF may get named initially, but I don't think their exposure is very high, personally. There is no vicarious liability in play where the negligent actions of the boater can be put on MLF, it would have to be MLF's own negligence, and based on what I've seen so far its just not there.

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Thanks and welcome to BBC…your excellent analysis leads me to believe you might be in the legal field?

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Originally Posted by n2theblue

I've been a lurker for a while but wanted to jump in and answer a few of these



This will be tough, unless they have some proof that MLF actively did something along the chain of causation that lead to the accident. Just holding a tournament is in itself not negligence. The decisions of individual boaters usually break the chain of causation.



It is highly unlikely punitive damages come into play in a case like this.



Contributory negligence doesn't just limit a claim, it defeats it entirely. If plaintiff is the slightest bit at fault, they get nothing. It's a harsh doctrine, which is why most states have done away with it.



I've seen lots and lots of talk about fog, but the only posts I've seen from people who were actually there say fog/visibility wasn't an issue




Negligence is the failure to behave with the level of care that a reasonable person would have exercised under the same circumstances. I don't think there's any way MLF can be held negligent UNLESS there were weather conditions in play. Just having a tournament is not negligent.



Damages awards from a trial are based on a number of factors including loss of income, but settlements are more based on insurance limits.

MLF may get named initially, but I don't think their exposure is very high, personally. There is no vicarious liability in play where the negligent actions of the boater can be put on MLF, it would have to be MLF's own negligence, and based on what I've seen so far its just not there.

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I could see MLF paying just to keep their name from being included in a suit, even if they would not be held liable in the end.

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Originally Posted by trashmanssd

to me insurance will be the issue for the tournaments. Insurance companies are looking real hard at their risk exposures. Rates may become prohibitively high (like home owners insurance in Florida has). The Insurance company may want rules changes to help lower the risk to allow them to lower the rates to a number that is feasible for the Leagues.

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I carefully brought this issue up a few accidents ago and was censured for being callous. It will probably affect all of us because we buy insurance on our boats. One or more insurance companies will surely be sued, because that's where the money is. We will all have to pay that back.
In truth, one would be foolish to use their boat if not insured nowadays.

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Originally Posted by dean c

Thanks and welcome to BBC…your excellent analysis leads me to believe you might be in the legal field?

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Yep, land surveyor, then construction engineer, then mechanical engineer at a couple nuclear plants, and now yep I'm a lawyer who got tired of insurance defense and construction litigation and now does real estate closings. Fished mostly salt for a while but now doing more rivers and lakes.

I do like the requirement of having a boater safety course to operate a boat. At least the information was given to everyone. I know a personal family member that went to a local marina, rented a bow rider on a BUSY summer day, and went out. Had never driven a boat before. They threw the The instructions he was given were basically "here's the key, here's the throttle, here's the steering wheel, there aren't brakes."

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Originally Posted by billnorman1

I carefully brought this issue up a few accidents ago and was censured for being callous. It will probably affect all of us because we buy insurance on our boats. One or more insurance companies will surely be sued, because that's where the money is. We will all have to pay that back.
In truth, one would be foolish to use their boat if not insured nowadays.

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Insurance companies don't get sued in their own capacity, they step in and defend their policy holder. But yes the rest of what you are saying is correct, though I don't know why this would have a a huge effect. The horsepower hanging off the back of the boat and the geographic location is a bigger factor than anything when companies set their premiums.

Probably needs to be some brake pumping about this it could have been the striper boats fault for all we know it will probably take a lengthy investigation to determine fault.

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Originally Posted by n2theblue

Yep, land surveyor, then construction engineer, then mechanical engineer at a couple nuclear plants, and now yep I'm a lawyer who got tired of insurance defense and construction litigation and now does real estate closings. Fished mostly salt for a while but now doing more rivers and lakes.

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Glad to have you here:thumb up2:

How strong are these release of liability statements the tourney organizations have anglers sign and agree to?

There was a camera mount in Flint Davis' boat but I didn't see the actual camera. If that camera was operational at the time of the collision it should tell most everything that happened. But where is that camera and was it working?

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Originally Posted by Rider99XX

How much of this will factor into what happened?



From MLF's website;

PARTICIPANT RELEASE OF LIABILITY - READ BEFORE SIGNING
In consideration for permission to voluntarily participate in tournaments, events, programs and related activities
conducted by MLFLW, LLC, (DBA “MLF”) I acknowledge, appreciate and agree that:
1. The risk of injury, disability, death, loss or damage to my person or property from the activities involved in this
program is significant, including the potential for permanent paralysis and death, and while particular rules,
equipment and personal discipline may reduce this risk, the risk of serious injury does exist; and,
2. I have been advised by MLF, and have had the opportunity to seek legal counsel with respect to the legal effect of this
document; and,
3. I KNOWINGLY AND FREELY ASSUME ALL RISKS REFERRED TO ABOVE, BOTH KNOWN AND
UNKNOWN, EVEN IF ARISING FROM THE NEGLIGENCE OF MLFLW, LLC, ITS OFFICERS, OFFICIALS,
DIRECTORS, SHAREHOLDERS, AGENTS, AND/OR EMPLOYEES, OTHER PARTICIPANTS, AND
SPONSORING AGENCIES, SPONSORS, ADVERTISERS, AND, IF APPLICABLE, OWNERS AND LESSORS
OF PREMISES AND PROPERTY USED TO CONDUCT THE EVENT (“RELEASEES”) OR OTHERS, AND
ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR RISKS ARISING FROM MY PARTICIPATION; AND,
4. I agree to monitor weather and water conditions during my participation and assume full responsibility to remove
myself from hazards that may arise; and,
5. I willingly agree to comply with the terms and conditions for participation, including Covid protocols. If, however, I
observe any unusual significant hazard during my presence or participation, I will remove myself from participation
and bring such to the immediate attention of the nearest official; and,
6. I, FOR MYSELF AND ON BEHALF OF MY HEIRS, ASSIGNS, PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVES AND NEXT
OF KIN, HEREBY RELEASE, INDEMNIFY, AND HOLD HARMLESS RELEASEES, WITH RESPECT TO ANY
AND ALL INJURY, DISABILITY, DEATH, OR LOSS OR DAMAGE TO PERSON OR PROPERTY, WHICH I
SUFFER OR WHICH I AM FOUND TO HAVE CAUSED IN WHOLE OR IN PART BY MY NEGLIGENCE OR
INTENTIONAL MISCONDUCT, WHETHER ARISING FROM THE NEGLIGENCE OF THE RELEASEES, OR
OTHERWISE, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.
7. I agree to submit to a truth verification test administered by MLF and understand that failure to pass the examination
as determined by MLF will result in disqualification.
8. I agree to provide MLF with my taxpayer identification number.
9. I consent to being notified in the form of SMS (texting), email and/or push notifications concerning information,
including promotions, related to the events in which I am participating.
10. MLF will track each angler’s precise location in real time during tournament hours at all livestreamed events using
GPS-enabled devices. Location information will only be used by MLF for rule enforcement and media production.
The location of fish catches may also be used, in aggregate, by the MLF Fisheries Management Division for
conservation purposes.
I HAVE READ THIS RELEASE OF LIABILITY AND ASSUMPTION OF RISK AGREEMENT AND THE
ATTACHED RULES. I FULLY UNDERSTAND THE TERMS AND UNDERSTAND THAT I HAVE GIVEN UP
SUBSTANTIAL RIGHTS BY SIGNING THIS RELEASE, AND SIGN IT FREELY AND VOLUNTARILY.

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In Alabama you can’t have your own negligence signed away. The plaintiff attorneys most likely will try to establish that it was negligent for MLF to put this event on in the first place. They allowed a stage for this tragedy to happen could be the argument. If this argument is successful it could have far reaching consequences on the ability of tournament organizers to promote and organize tournaments as we know them. This could be a land mark situation.

I hope the family of those killed sue and win big. No reason to be running fast on a foggy lake when you cant see

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Originally Posted by NCrappie

I hope the family of those killed sue and win big. No reason to be running fast on a foggy lake when you cant see

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still a lot of unknowns but some that were on the water was saying there was little to no fog

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Originally Posted by dean c

Glad to have you here:thumb up2:

How strong are these release of liability statements the tourney organizations have anglers sign and agree to?

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I haven't read them, but if they are like a typical one they are pretty enforceable, depending on the state. Every state is a little different.

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Originally Posted by geodebasser

In Alabama you can’t have your own negligence signed away. The plaintiff attorneys most likely will try to establish that it was negligent for MLF to put this event on in the first place. They allowed a stage for this tragedy to happen could be the argument. If this argument is successful it could have far reaching consequences on the ability of tournament organizers to promote and organize tournaments as we know them. This could be a land mark situation.

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That will be very very difficult unless there is some factor like weather involved.

As far as signing negligence away, where are you getting that? I'm not an expert on alabama law but I found this with a quick search. Releases are valid except to wanton or wilful conduct, and fishing tournaments are fairly analogous to races. So long as people are aware of the risks involved, they can waive claims against the organizer.

Also this has nothing to do with any suit by the people who were injured.

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The most clearly articulated genre of pre-injury liability releases in Alabama are pre-race releases issued in the context of racetracks. See Barnes v. Birmingham Intern. Raceway, Inc., 551 So.2d 929, 932 (Ala. 1989). Until 1989, Alabama was the only jurisdiction in the country that upheld pre-race releases for negligent and wanton conduct; in 1989, the Supreme Court of Alabama held that “pre-race releases, although valid and consistent with public policy as to negligent conduct, are invalid and contrary to public policy as to wanton or willful conduct.”

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Originally Posted by NCrappie

I hope the family of those killed sue and win big. No reason to be running fast on a foggy lake when you cant see

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Was fog a factor in this accident? Were the rules of the road followed by both captains? Did you ever think for a minute that maybe the other boat was at fault here or at least shares some of the fault, or is it just the bass boat fault because it's a "fast" boat? Do you know these circumstances to be true? How bout we just let the people actually involved in putting the pieces of this accident together decide the results of what should happen next. My initial thought was the same with it being related to fog, but it sounds as though visibility may not have been an issue, I don't know, I was not there, these are facts that will come out in the investigation, lets let it play out and then we can armchair QB it.

i know one thing MLF has done a good job keeping all the anglers quiet.. which may just be out of respect of all involved which is a good thing.. figured there would be some post from guys that were fishing the tournament which social media for them is a big thing, but ive yet to come across anything

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Originally Posted by JayLaw

Was fog a factor in this accident? Were the rules of the road followed by both captains? Did you ever think for a minute that maybe the other boat was at fault here or at least shares some of the fault, or is it just the bass boat fault because it's a "fast" boat? Do you know these circumstances to be true? How bout we just let the people actually involved in putting the pieces of this accident together decide the results of what should happen next. My initial thought was the same with it being related to fog, but it sounds as though visibility may not have been an issue, I don't know, I was not there, these are facts that will come out in the investigation, lets let it play out and then we can armchair QB it.

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From what I have read and been told by person there, fog was not a factor in this. This is just based on comments read online and person at event.

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Originally Posted by JayLaw

Was fog a factor in this accident? Were the rules of the road followed by both captains? Did you ever think for a minute that maybe the other boat was at fault here or at least shares some of the fault, or is it just the bass boat fault because it's a "fast" boat? Do you know these circumstances to be true? How bout we just let the people actually involved in putting the pieces of this accident together decide the results of what should happen next. My initial thought was the same with it being related to fog, but it sounds as though visibility may not have been an issue, I don't know, I was not there, these are facts that will come out in the investigation, lets let it play out and then we can armchair QB it.

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:thumb up2:

If this were to put MLF's future in jeopardy then it will quite literally put every major tournament organizations future in jeopardy. If it were to fold the organization then everyone else would likely have to change operations as well. I'd guess they are highly insured for this type of occurrence, however, placing anglers personal irresponsibility on a organization could be stretch, and at this point we don't even know if that was involved here. As these type incidents occur it makes me realize more and more that MLF's BPT is the most forward thinking trail out there. Lines in.. no blast off boat races to or from a weigh in. I could mention several other non safety related improvements for fans and anglers as well, but they really aren't germane to the conversation. As a fall out of this, it may be time for these organizations, the industry and state agencies to take a good look at where we are heading as the waterways used to compete become more heavily populated with non competitors. It's probably way past time for speed limits on the water everywhere. If you want a perfect example of that go spend a summer weekend day on Lake of the Ozarks mo. or Lake Sidney Lanier outside Atlanta Ga. Insane stuff every day there.

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Originally Posted by DylanSam

From what I have read and been told by person there, fog was not a factor in this. This is just based on comments read online and person at event.

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I've also seen that fog wasn't a factor in some comments on mlf page. I've signed that mlf waiver and agreed to their rules for years knowing full well as the operator of my vessel that any incident/accident I'm involved in falls squarely on my shoulders as it should since I'm the guy behind the wheel.
Blinded by running directly into the sun was being tossed around last night as possible reason for impaired vision rather than fog.