why even ask for set-up help???

this is why i stay off of these board's but this particular post was brought to my attention. i hate seeing a person really in need ask a question then have to read 3 pages of everybody elses bickering on the topic, and its alway's the guy's who have never even leaned against the particular boat in question who seem to be the professor on that particular hull. so what happen's is the poor fella who need's to know get's off the net with no questions answered!
if someone gives advice then take it only as advice. you then have to decipher out of this info what you want to try. do what you can afford and what fit's your application. if you don't want to add more setback in fear of damaging your transom then don't do it. some people think that this stresses the transom to point of failure. i've never seen it happen but i may one day, the way i see it is if the setback caused the failure then the transom was on the way out anyway. This is only my two cent’s.
the statement was made earlier that a tr-21 would not run with a 12 inch setback. Here is my test and the results. A friend of mine who fishes b.a.s.s brought me his tr-21 with a 225 popti on it. Him as a passenger me driving.
Full of fuel, live well full to the lid and all of his gear.
6” setback and 26 tempest 66 mph.(call to triton, they say this is the fastest set-up don’t touch it, add trim extenders to get more bowlift) passenger had to go up front to plane off. Is this customer going to accept this as an acceptable 40,000 dollar purchase, no! (I don’t know what that cost though)
Leaves my shop, 14” setback and 27 power tech tr-04 worked by a good propman, 74 mph and good holeshot, pulls good to 70 then kind eases up to 74. falls to 66-67 in turns. So he’s happy. Next tournament is in Paducah Kentucky, calls me from hotel that night saying that all the other triton guy’s are asking how to make their boat run that good. They don’t get it because triton keep’s telling them that the factory set-up is the best.( I know triton is covering their butt)
This is only what I’ve done so I’m sure everyone is about to fire off at me about I don’t know what I’m talking about. Next someone didn’t believe that bens boat didn’t pick up 7 mph on just a jack plate change, well it did! 12” of setback was 70mph.(still no bow lift) bolted on 5” more and some height changes, 77 and some change. I was driving and ben and paul as witness to the gps when I got back. (paul has two allisons so i think he’s a credible boat set-up witness.)
Some body else said 12” was too much for a 18’ foot bassboat. Well I have a 18’ foot 525# pound drag boat with 10” at the moment. Is this too much for my boat? My point is people who give advice need to have atleast tried it to say that it does or doesn’t work. Any time ben gave setback advice it was because it worked on his boat so he’s giving free advice to someone else. A friend of mine was talking to guy that he sold a mid section to off of a high performance site the other day, well this guy was boasting how his mirage quartermaster was running 105 in the quarter mile with a stock 260 hp on it. No body could touch him. Well matt simply said I was running d.s.r.a. pro stock with a stock 200 merc efi and was running 103 in the quarter. Well this guy not knowing anything goes blasting him on the board saying how full of crap he is about my boat. Ok this guy never been in a sanctioned race is now an expert! I love it. I’ll give anyone on this board the chance to come to Monroe, Louisiana to see it for themselve’s better yet come watch a race. I never believed tat a stock 2.5 200 would run this strong either! For those of you who have never even seen a capsule drag boat in person then here’s your chance to come drive one too! That’s how good my boat is set-up that I would let someone who has never been over 70 drive my boat over a 100.
We eat, sleep and drink fast boats over here so for you non believers and realist you just need to hang out one weekend. This fall’s plans are project pro-stock, cobra and pro-craft. We want to see just how fast a stock 200 efi can go on my race boat. My goal is around 120.i bet the know it all’s are falling out if their chair’s now. Also is bens cobra it WILL run 85 this fall with his pro max. then for giggles I have pro-craft 200 dc just sitting in the yard, I’m gonna make it fly just so everyone on the board can call us liars about that too! I have plenty of motors, prop’s and time to dedicate to such a project.
On a serious note, I have met some of my best friend’s talking about boats on the net, this year I lost one of them. We were so tight that his wife wouldn’t let the funeral home close the night of the wake until I got there to say my farewell. They waited almost two more hours on me, they were in Houston. All this bickering is stupid, and the friendly trash talk gets taken the wrong way by someone who’s pride gets in the way. It’s trash talk, it’s to be taken as jokes not personal. I’m sure I’ll also get banned for this but a moderator should not ban a member for something said in a p.m. and not said directly to a member negatively in view of the other members. For those who don’t know ben has been banned for having different set-up techniques than a moderator. So it turned to some ribbing on a p.m. between the two. No other member was affected by what they said to each other but ben had to go when ben said we’ll see when I out run you. JUST FRIENDLY TRASH TALK!!!!! Nothing personal
So I’ll keep everyone posted on the outcome of our test’s but I will not give advice, so I can avoid all the being called a liar. We are having our last race September 16and 17 in vidor texs. I’m currently tied for first for pro-stock point’s this year and soon as this race is over then we will have time for some test’s again. I’m also planning on being at the bullet fall fest on lake Concordia again. Anyone who can come need’s too, lot’s of fun with good folk’s. the chili aint bad either. We had just as many race boa’s as bass boats last year. There will be plenty of trash talk too!!!
Good luck to all in the quest for more speed , if you haven’t gone broke then your not trying hard enough!!!!!! Just joking, believe me when I say that knowledge always outruns money. If you can’t out spend them then you have to out think them.
Later, jeff.

Funny thing.....when I went to bed last night, before I got off of the board I checked to see who was still on. When I seen that you were online reading in the Cobra forum, I knew I would wake up to a post from you.

A moderator did not ban Ben......the President of the BBC banned Ben. Larry and I are the moderators here and we had nothing to do with it....weren't even involved. I didn't even know about it until it was already over with.

I'll leave this post open for TODAY only for anyone to make their comments on the subject then it's getting LOCKED. I'm getting burned out on the subject myself. I'm the only female here and all the testosterone levels I am enduring is pretty much making me http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/sick.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/sick.gif. I could care less.

Was that the thread where Al and ben were going back and forth about agreeing to disagree??? Never did read all of it but I do agree on setback MORE baby!!!!!

Joe

P.S. Hi Cleveland!!

WOW! I'm away from the computer for a couple of days and the Cobra forum turns into the mideast.

Kathy you souldn't go to bed so early. Imagine what you could have missed yesterday if you'd taked a little nap. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

I musta missed the thread....I've only seen Ben offering help here... http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/ohwell.gif

Chad, the thread is still up if you want to read it, entitled "Set-Up Help."

Ok, just for the record..........I'm the only one on the BBC that can ban someone and it takes a lot to be banned from here. BBC's been around for years and we're getting quite close to 13,000 registered members and there are something like 52 on the banned list. I think that should tell you that it takes a lot to be banned.

No one was banned because of what was in the thread; they were banned because of the extremely nasty IM's that were sent after the fact insulting me.
I'm a very laid back individual and don't normally let things get to me and just let things slide. But in this particular case I don't have to be insulted to that level and have to let it slide.

I'm not the only one that was questioning some of the "advice" that was being given, for example that a trim ring will provide more top end speed.

I never said that 17" of setback wouldn't work (or that 12" setback wouldn't work on a TR21). I said that it wasn't good advice to be giving to owners of Cobra 201's IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, mainly due to the fact that the boats were not designed and built to take that much setback.
The factory never would have warrantied anything over 12" setback so if these guys have problems they could be in for big expense and/or have accidents.

Others, including myself question when there's no proof/photos of what's being claimed.
It's my responsibility to ensure that bad advice/dangerous advice is not given out on BBC. Am I a setup expert? Of course not; I've never claimed to be one. I do not give advice unless I know it to be fact; if I'm not sure I will either give my opinion on what I "think" or I will get one of our setup experts on the BBC to confirm.

I didn't call anyone a liar; I would not do that in a post. I merely questioned this particular setup and why we'd not see photos. The answer given was that the motor had been a problem for a year........seems like a very long time to have problems with a motor.

If the extremely insulting IM's had not been sent then nothing would have changed here other than a locked thread. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoePA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P.S. Hi Cleveland!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

HI MY BUDDY JOE !!!! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/smile.gif

Kathy...It's all Pat's fault! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif

Kathy if he still had his Cobra he wouldn't have this attitude, or complex http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

Sent you an IM Jeff. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif

http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT Pat. You get 2 http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif from me. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif

Larry, don't you have a garden to work in or flowers to plant....ain't that what retired people are 'posta do ?? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

Flowers?? Is Larry working with Tyson now? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

Read the thread...musta been some nasty IMs!! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/eek.gif

I do know that dude has done alot of work to his Cobra...I know that his suggestions to me on my boat has helped to the tune of about 4 mph, and I haven't been brave enough to try the other stuff yet... http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif ...he has a buddy that does his motor work for him, and they are always tinkering with all kinds of boats, and I think the guy that fixes them has been working on his own boat (I think I saw him say that one time) and hasn't been able to to put much time on Ben's.....did get an invite to go up and watch him push that 201 77 (which I don't feel to be too unbelievable seeing as I had a 201 with a stock 200 at 72 before I got my 216)...wish I would have gone....could've put alot of cunfusion to rest...

I hung a 12 inch slidemaster off of my 216 (had an 8)...he did tell me not to put 17 inches on it... http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif don't worry there....my boat has about a 3/16 inch bevel on the back (very back of the pad, running all the way across the boat)...I can only imagine that it is surely the reason my boat rides so flat, and can only speculate that it will keep the nose down, and result in a loss of speed.....but also know that it is the reason I can take both hands off the steering wheel, reach in the ice chest, open a coke, and tie my shoe at 70 without worrying one bit about chine walk or the boat moving one inch off of the pre-set course....for me, that is worth more than a couple miles an hour...

Do know, though, that Al definitely has reasons for what he does, and generally they are pretty damn good! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif I trust in the decisions he makes!

al, come on now if you were insulted by what ben said then you do need to lighten up. he was joking, i was on the phone with him while you two were going at it, he was laughing. i can assure you he was not trying to insult you or hurt you personally. the comment about your age and how boat set-up and prop's have changed dramatically over the years was merely to prove a point. we younger guy's have the energy and drive to keep testing and finding more speed. no offense from me, i run into this all the time when these older guys who raced in the 80's go buy them a new boat and pull their prop's out of the top of the closet and start trying to race. we run all over them and they don't get it, but they won't take our advice because their pride wont let them take advice off a 25 year old. so if you didn't like what ben said to you in a p.m. then ban him from i.m. people so you won't have to worry what is said behind the scenes. don't ban him from the board in general. he has helped people go faster on this board whether you agree with the technique or not. now, i drive buy a skeeter dealer every day on my way to the shop and noticed on his last order that just came in that they all had 14" setback with 250 yamaha's hanging on them. it's coming guy's these boats now days are being built alot heavier to handle customer needs and the weight of these new age big block's. we are going to see the industry doing what we have been doing for years to make these big boat's run. think back in the 80's and early 90's all the boats barely had any built in set-back, now look at them today. al, i'm sure your a good ole boy and have to work hard to keep the peace on this board. if it weren't for you than these fellas would not have this board to b.s. on, but i don't think banning ben was the appropriate measure for something between the two of you. this is why i made the point earlier about how guy's don't take thing's personally, it's supposed to be fun!
jeff

Chad........I never questioned that Ben was running 77 mph; I'm sure he is, but 85 mph with a stock 225 PM on a Cobra 201 is a tad hard to believe. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif

Would make a lot more sense to me if, 1. we could see photos/videos of Ben's boat that he keeps talking about, and 2. if he would be saying that he has 17" of total setback but that he didn't recommend it for everyone.
When guys come on saying that they've got this much setback then others are going to think it's a good idea........maybe it is and maybe it isn't.
All I said was that it was a lot of setback for a boat that wasn't built for it.

What happens when guys put on 17" of setback and then have major hull problems?
Re the Triton TR21's, I had a 6" on mine then went to a 10". Speed went up some.......I could run 77 mph with the 225 Yamaha set 8" off the transom. Would more setback help? Not according to Todd Morgan who is one of the best setup guys I've seen. Sure, it's possible that 12" (or more) might have given 1-2 mph but at what expense? The boat was not designed (or warrantied) for more than 10".....I had already had Paul Rieger agree that they'd warranty 10" and no more.

Re the IM's........yeah, I'd consider them to be nasty.
There's been a few times where guys have been banned on BBC before and come back, it takes an apology and sometimes it happens.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Al from Canada &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Flowers?? Is Larry working with Tyson now? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

What you talking 'bout Willis? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

Jeff...........so because I'm 62 I don't know anything about boats? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif

I learn a lot from reading advice given on the BBC from guys that are 18 to 70. A day when I've learned something is a good day; if you don't learn from others then how do you learn?

I've only owned 4 bassboats but I've always been in high performance cars all my life and I love going fast. I'm more into the performance of my Gambler than I am the fishing aspect.

I could post the IM if you like but I consider IM's and e-mails to be personal....this IM was NOT in fun and joking trust me.

I just read the IM again and I can't find where there's anything funny in it Jeff. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif