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Guys, I posted a thread a couple days ago about going with a 150 Vmax Carb, but am having second thoughts about it. Other than fuel and starting, can anyone tell me the advantages of the HPDI over the carb engine. I haven't taken delivery of my boat yet, so I can still change and pay the difference between the two, but need some convincing. Please help!!! Thanks!!!!!!
The HPDI is a much more refined, newer engine. It will be quieter and nicer all around.
The implications of 40% less fuel usage are that you can carry 40% less fuel for the same range. This means less hassle with filling (often from jerry cans for me). The option of longer range (i.e I can go a lot further with the same amount of fuel). Better resale.
"Other than fuel and starting", take one for a run to see how much better your boating experience becomes with one of these engines.
I change from a 150Vmax carb to an Ox66 EFI 225 Vmax to an E-TEC 225HO.
For my particular application, the E-TEC uses a lot less fuel. Over 40% of my engine running time is spent at idle where my E-TEC uses 0.7 litres of fuel per hour. I don't have an accurate number for the 225 Vmax HPDI but it doesn't have stratified mode so it would be in the order of 3 or 4 litres per hour. 53% of my time is spent at 2000RPM or less (in stratified mode). In my case, my average consumption is reduced by 2 or 3 litres per hour simply because of stratified combustion mode which only Optimax and E-TEC offer. On top of this is the fuel consumption savings that any four stroke would offer. My fuel consumption is about half what it would be with a carby engine.
Interestingly I try to never idle, no way would I spend 40% at idle except the engine printout proves I do. Total 109 hours so far.
That said, go ahead and purchase your Yamaha, you will love it. It is easy to dismiss "other than fuel and starting" as small issues but when you purchase the HPDI you will be glad you did.
I would happily have another Yamaha although I would have an E-TEC in preference. I don't want to hijack this forum. I'd love to have a 150 HPDI on my rack of play engines. I'd put a TRP gearbox straight on it!
The carby engine is an excellent workhorse but who would even consider a 1985 model car engine in a new car these days? Those carby motors have had no significant changes since the 80's. (well they have had improvements - eg better in salt water etc, but in use, they are much the same engines as they were 25 years ago).
I would spend the extra and get HPDI if I could.
Greg
HPDI you want be sorry.
Lots of HDPI advantages but the carb will be reliable and less sensitive to some things...
its less complex...less expensive to repair...it all depends, if you fish 3 days a month...
the carb won't be bad enough to notice...the HDPI has easier mods to get more speed.
Hey, toss a coin and enjoy...
no rebuild carbs
better gas and oil burn
I dont think you can go wrong either way, I have a 200 hpdi and my dad runs a 150 vmax. Dad only goes fishing about 5 times a year and the only problem he ever has is his fuel goes stale. I fish 2-5 times a week and have not had any problems. I am extremly happy with the amount of fuel my boat uses. I dont think that what I have said will help you much so I will shut up. BOth are great engines in my opinion.
I am not sure of the mpg of an HPDI, but I can tell you first hand that my 150 VMAX carb doesn't do bad. My last trip I went 100 miles on 26 gallons of gas. Thats on an 18.5 Skeeter. Spent most of the time between 4500-5000 rpms. An an occasional full throttle.
Just information...........use it as you like. http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/smile.gif
http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif Please read my post below http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif
I bought my 2007 Champ 183 with a carb 150 VMax. Would I have preferred an HPDI....yes.....BUT!
I bought mine 1 yr old, and if buying the equivalent 1 yr old boat, with a HPDI, after doing ALOT of pricing around the internet, I would have had to pay around $4,000 more.
Yes the carb burns more gas (guys, the 40% number is WRONG!) but it does burn more.
So i won't start any arguments, I'll use that 40% number in the following case:
Let's say I take my boat out on 40 outings a year.
Let's say I burn an average of 6 gallons an outing (that's about 21 miles of running at an avearge of 3-1/2 mpg)
Then I would have used around 240 gallons in a year.
Let's use the price of $2.50 a gallon (ya know gas will be there again! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/ohwell.gif )
2.50 X 240 = $600 of gas usage a year using a carb 150
$600 X .6 (40% less usage for a HPDI) = $360 of gas usage a year using a hpdi
SO...... using those numbers, I spent $240 more a year owning a carb motor.
hmmmmmmmm....Don't I have that $4,000 I saved getting a carb motor left to spend on that extra gas usage???http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/wink.gif
$4,000/240 = 16.67 years before I actually start seeing the savings on gas consumption if I would have got a hpdi motor.
I really don't plan on owning this boat for that long! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif
Keep the boat 1/2 that 16+ years (sell it after 8 yrs), and ya still got $2,000 of that $4,000 left over!
Owning a carb outboard that eats more gas doesn't look as bad as ya thought.........does it! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif
http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif
Modified by OhioChamp183 at 6:41 PM 2/13/2009
The hpdi looks cooler http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iron banks »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The hpdi looks cooler http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea, but that xtra $4K in your pocket will get more chicks! http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/boardstuff2/pimp2.gif
talked to dealer today, and for 1600.00 I can trade up to the HPDI and add a racor filter system. I think for 1600.00, I'm gonna make the trade. If it were 2500.00 or more, I would have to think about it, but when you think about a 25,000 dollar plus rig, 1600.00 isn't that much more, and I really think the resale later on will be much better with the HPDI than the carb. I don't think 1600.00 is a bad price for trade up. Anybody else???
Only $1600 difference from a new 09 150 VMax carb to a HPDI! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/eek.gif
I was looking at several 1 yr old 2007 Champ 183's, last fall, and everyone with a HPDI or Opti was 22,000-23,000.
The ones with the carbs were between $19,000-23,000.
I ended up stealing one, with the VMax 150 carb, for under $17,000 http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/eek.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/glasses.gif
Always seemed to be about a $3500-4000 difference.
for $1600 difference, it a NO BRAINER! http://xs-s.com/zf/images/smile/emthup.gif
I have an 07 150vmax carb and love it. Mine is on a 19ft G3eagle 190 so its not puching that heavy of a boat and the gas milage is not that bad. Mine starts just as good as any HPDI. I press the key in for 3 sec, crank it fires and when it coughs, press it in again and its ready to go starts like a car the rest of the day. I could have had the HPDI for not a lot more money, I know that this motor is a time proven design thats been around along time, not a whole lot that can go wrong.
scott
When I bought my ZX-190 Skeeter in 06, it was a $3500.00 diff for a 150hpdi. I bought the 150 carb. I really like it. The hard start is no longer an issue. Fires right off. I can live with the gas usage. I got this boat new for a steal. They had ordered it in for the Columbus boat show, it was loaded. Nobody bought it. They really lowered the price. It is Steeler colors. Sorry Browns Fans
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Skeeter ZX-190 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They really lowered the price. It is Steeler colors. Sorry Browns Fans</TD></TR></TABLE>
Isn't it TOTALLY OBVIOUS why nobody bought it, and they had to lower the price!? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif
signed:
A Brown's fan http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/embarassed.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/crying.gif
I'm a STEELER fan. So I guess it worked out to my advantage. Boy is the black carpet hot in the summer
boy, I'd hate to see what a brown & orange bassboat would look like??? http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/sick.gif http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/Laugh.gif
Bet you could get it for a real good price! http://www.bassboatcentral.com/smileys/roll.gif