Verifying possible timer base problem 200 Johnson

[GSXRFANIM]

I have a 98 Johnson 200 (J200STLECE) that I am not getting spark on lower port side cylinder. I have been working on this for a bit.
I have the service manual and was running the Ohmmeter test on the sensor coil.
Using a Fluke MM I checked per the manual, Ohms on pin D to A, B, and C on both port and starboard connectors coming from coil.
Also did pin D to D from both connectors. That was in spec.
I got all similar readings on all tests except port side D to C which after I traced it on a schematic and did continuity test thru the power pack happens to be the lower port cylinder.
I havent taken the flywheel off yet but with all the experience here on BBC, does it sound like the sensor coil at this point?
Also, can someone verify that the flywheel nut is 1 7/16"

Appreciate all the help

[GSXRFANIM]

Also having a hard time finding the model number for the Timer base assembly for a 1998 Johnson 200.
If anyone can help with that I would appreciate it.
I am finding all kinds for Johnson/Evinrude but not for my particular model and year.

[dentpusher]

http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E...2-54b6da9661dc
According to BRP online parts catalog, this is what I ordered today. Sensor and timer base Assy. #0584586

I ordered from MarineEngine.com because they made rush processing and shipping easy. I'm in a hurry to get mine running for our week @ the lake vacation.

[ChampioNman]

http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E...2-54b6da9661dc
According to BRP online parts catalog, this is what I ordered today. Sensor and timer base Assy. #0584586

I ordered from MarineEngine.com because they made rush processing and shipping easy. I'm in a hurry to get mine running for our week @ the lake vacation.

That part has been super seeded to 0763775 you'll more than likely get that one and not the 0584586.

[GSXRFANIM]

With ordering the Timer base assembly, should I get a retainer as well?
Anything else I might need?

Man is that timer base expensive compared to other models and years. I kept seeing mid $200 prices until I found mine

[GSXRFANIM]

Dentpusher, Why are you ordering one?
What kind of troubleshooting or issue did you have to realize it is the timer base?

[ChampioNman]

With ordering the Timer base assembly, should I get a retainer as well?
Anything else I might need?

Man is that timer base expensive compared to other models and years. I kept seeing mid $200 prices until I found mine

No you should be good on the retainer just be careful removing it. We don't set the parts prices we just have to pass it on the the customer. BRP just announced a 5% price increase on all the parts. That part fits all of the carbed 90* V-6 motors from 1993-2001.

Yes the nut is 1 7/16"

[ChampioNman]

Have you moved the coil itself with another coil along with the plug wire to see if it stays or follows?

[GSXRFANIM]

I have moved the coil and wires to another cylinder.
The only thing that I did not do that you had recommended before is swap the actual wire from the power pack to lower coil to the middle cylinder and see if the issue follows.
Thanks for your help Championman

[Evinrude57]

Ignition problems are a LOT easier and more accurate to diagnose with a DVA meter. In my experience trying to use ohms still left me guessing a lot of times until i pulled out the DVA meter.

I also used the CDI troubleshooting manual a lot when working on ignition systems. IMO its like a cheat sheet that would a lot of times help find the issue a lot faster.

Here is a link to a version of that manual:
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AvL93mvUdPtnqkdm8YyJrMyJhytO

[dentpusher]

Dentpusher, Why are you ordering one?
What kind of troubleshooting or issue did you have to realize it is the timer base?

My motor began to have what felt like a significant "electrical" type miss at end of last year. My spark jumps 7/16" pretty good but I ran through trouble shooting in OE manual and my charge coils measured low also it indicated bad timer base. But our lakes are closed from flooding so I am just trying to change everything as to not ruin whole family (us, sister's and parents) vacation with no boat. Finishing carb kits today, prolly drop back end in "wakeless lake" tonight to test, verify TDC and timing.
New timing light got in last night (other one blew up) stator and base will be in tomorrow if I'm still having issues. I'm tighter than "bark on a tree" but am slowly coming to grips, after 20 years of ownership, boats are EXPENSIVE, and if you want one, you're just gonna have to leave the wallet open.

[GSXRFANIM]

Ignition problems are a LOT easier and more accurate to diagnose with a DVA meter. In my experience trying to use ohms still left me guessing a lot of times until i pulled out the DVA meter.

I also used the CDI troubleshooting manual a lot when working on ignition systems. IMO its like a cheat sheet that would a lot of times help find the issue a lot faster.

Here is a link to a version of that manual:
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AvL93mvUdPtnqkdm8YyJrMyJhytO

Thanks Evinrude, good info there.
I think i have someone here at work who can build a DVA adapter for my Fluke digital meter.
I definitely want a better reading to verify it is the timer base instead of dropping $380

[GSXRFANIM]

Yeah dentpusher, I was following your post since it was pretty similar to what I am experiencing.
The only thing is, my boat runs good. Doesnt spit or sputter and you could not tell it was only running on 5 cylinders.
I didnt find it until I changed my plugs and the one was clean as could be.
I thought it wasnt getting fuel because i have a "cheap" spark testor that shows spark but I am thinking its not powerful enough.
All cylinders have good compression readings.
I started rethinking my troubleshooting and went thru my manual to look at things better.

[Bassbuster95]

Make absolutely sure your battery is fully charged and in good condition

[Evinrude57]

Make absolutely sure your battery is fully charged and in good condition

Good point

A low or undersized battery has caused my to chase my tail on ignition problems before because it appears to be turning the engine over fast enough for testing purposes but its really not. I now always take all the spark plugs out when doing my testing this puts less stress on the battery and starter and get more consistence results from the tests.

[dentpusher]

What's weird about mine is, it fails the voltage test on the charge coil with a DVA adapter on my meter, 94/87V it should be >130 but when my motor is running, it's showing > 14V charge on battery??? It also checks low on figure #14 of the sensor coil test with Port side.72,.78,.66V and S .73,.68,.76V

My motor was still running but it felt like there was one or 2 cylinders gone. Compression is lower than I'd like, within 10% @ 105psi but it is an old motor. I am going out now to put new filters, Oniker clamps on everything, reinstall rebuilt carbs and check timing/TDC then go retest fuel system to make sure no air leaks.

[316jughead]

What's weird about mine is, it fails the voltage test on the charge coil with a DVA adapter on my meter, 94/87V it should be >130 but when my motor is running, it's showing > 14V charge on battery??? It also checks low on figure #14 of the sensor coil test with Port side.72,.78,.66V and S .73,.68,.76V

My motor was still running but it felt like there was one or 2 cylinders gone. Compression is lower than I'd like, within 10% @ 105psi but it is an old motor. I am going out now to put new filters, Oniker clamps on everything, reinstall rebuilt carbs and check timing/TDC then go retest fuel system to make sure no air leaks.

You need to reread the manual on the charging system and the ignition system.

[dentpusher]

You need to reread the manual on the charging system and the ignition system.

Please don't be cryptic. I have read the principle twice and the test procedure at least 4 times now and tested once before a DVA was available and 2x's after with the same results. My charge coil tests low. According to test, page 3-44, "Proceed to Ohm test". It passed. Then to page, 3-46 test #14 for Sensor Coil (results above, >.8V) which means, since my wiring is pristine and no connector "green crusties", "If wiring and connector condition is good, replace timer base." Since you were being cryptic, I'm assuming you are referring to my working on fuel system. I am actually doing that because I did not use "recommended" clamps (old school worm gears) and my engine has not had carbs apart in about 15 years so I figured it would be wise to just "re-kit" them due to age and I do run ethanol for busy part of summer. I had explained my symptoms to one of the older mechanics at a large marine repair shop locally and he said, "check VRO, they go bad all the time, 15 years is pretty long". Here is what I found on my diaphragms. I think they could use replacing (these photos are after they dried out some too, they were worse).




I may not wrench on this stuff every day but I have a couple years of mechanical engineering schooling, rebuilt my first lawnmower engine, solo, at 12 (I'm 52 now) and have successfully tinkered all my life but big 2 strokes are complicated, expensive, high performance machinery that blows up plenty all on its own for minor causes so I am just trying to be cautious. If I can get someone with the years of experience, which I lack, like Champ, SeaHorse or yourself (?) to answer a question, why not ask to be on the safe side?

I am human, so if I missed something, please, share.

[316jughead]

I don't know what being cryptic is. I was referring to your lack of knowledge of what the charge coils do. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. After years of helping here, I have lost interest in explaining what can be learned in the service manual. You don't have to give us your life history, just because someone is not experienced in working on these motors doesn't mean he is stupid. In 28 years I also went to several schools, factory Evinrude and OMC Cobra, some I did not want to attend but it was required to maintain factory certification. This isn't rocket science, your going to get it fixed.

[dentpusher]

No harm, no foul. I did read that but it is not super explicit on what the "Charge Coil" actually does. I took it as implying that it was the charging circuit but I was not sure if it also provided a bit of juice to the power pack to "charge" a capacitor, or something similar, in addition to providing current for the rectifier to "charge" the battery.

I do have a question. Since my components (stator and sensor) failed some tests, should I stop testing there (because the rest of the tests will be invalid) or complete the testing all the way to the plugs and just keep those results in mind if it does not run right in the end. A mechanic buddy of mine said his stator did not test 100% but his engine still runs fine. Then again, I don't want to blow up my motor or other parts (this is where experience pays). Thanks for your help.