Livewell question

[tap_tap_boom]

Hey Guys,

For those of you that fish tournaments I have a question for you. There isn't a timer switch on Recirculate like there is with the Aerator so do you guys manually run recirc throughout the day? I had 3 dead fish this past tournament and that hasn't happened before so something is different.

In the warmer months I usually put a bag of ice in the livewell and then fill it up at the 1st stop and add Sure-Life Release Me and run the aerator on auto. I didn't have to change the water and fish were alive and healthy so I don't know what changed. The aerator comes on and I see bubbles so I wanted to get your input on the Recirc. On day 2 I didn't put ice and emptied and then added fresh water 1/2 way through the day and my co-angler had a dead fish, but I know that fish was hooked deep so I don't know if that was the cause. Our fish we nowhere near as active as others in the bump tanks though.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike

[Johnny Maxwell]

Mike, I doubt many in this country have studied livewell water like I have in the past 6 years. I too had some fish struggle and almost die in a tourney which caused me to look for the cause and a solution. What I have come up with after talking to dean's of major university biology departments, marine biologists, reading every study known to man, etc. etc., is that water chemistry is so complex they all have great input and ideas but the bottom line is oxygen in the right amounts. It won't cure a deeply hooked or nerve hooked fish, but oxygen is usually the culprit. There are times the fish move up to feed quickly and leave a oxygen rich depth to spend just a little while eating and get caught in shallow water. Then, the livewell, which picks up that same shallow water...oxygen poor water, is circulated to fish that need more oxygen to thrive. Adding ice as or ice bottles as long as the temp doesn't get 7 degrees or so colder than the lake surface temp is a good way to go as long as you keep a thermometer going in the livewell and lake and don't shock the fish going into the livewell or coming out for release. I am not a fan of the chemicals added to water only because they are basically acting as a drug, they calm the fish down in the livewell which is good, but upon release those drugged fish have to be able to swim to waters that fit their needs for oxygen. If there is enough oxygen in the water up to (tech term for livewells...sorry) 12 ppm, the fish will do very well in the livewell and upon release. Of course the fish can suffer from toxicity brought on from excrement during stress known as ammonia or gassing, so opening up the livewell lid just a 1/4" while resting and fishing will help rid the livewell of ammonia some. Note that there are so-called oxygen generating systems being sold for bass boats. The amount of oxygen needed in an average livewell with an average bag of fish is so far greater than the ability of the little oxygen systems ability to supply it that I don't see them being anything more than a feel good thing for fisherman. With the Lord's help I hope to have a system on the market this year that addresses the issue. For now, if you have to keep the fish in top shape make sure you put ice in and sub-cool no more than 7 degrees. In a perfect situation you would pull water into the livewell only from the depth of the lake that has the most oxygen. Surface water in grass is oxygen rich in the afternoon but not in the mornings. Oxygen demand overnight from all the little organisms and fish consume the oxygen up at night. Photosynthesis during the day replenishes the oxygen making it better in the afternoon. Another good reason to hit grass in the mid day and afternoon times for some fish! LOL. Anytime you want to talk more, and learn more about this feel free to contact me. I didn't even touch the surface of how deep and complex water chemistry to us bass guys is. At least I hope I didn't confuse you too much.

[fishnfireman]

thanks for sharing .

[white gambler]

Good read Johnny !

To the o.p. I have only had my boat for a short time. Have fished 3 tx's out of it. The first two I just filled up, put valve on recirc, and ran my aerator on the timer. Water was 60-72 degrees. I did turn valve to auto once during the day and pumped in some fresh water for 4-5 min. Then valve back to recirc and timed aerator. Last months it was hot so I felt I needed to be more cognoscente of my live well environment. I put a 20oz frozen water bottle with catch and release in it immediately. I filled with water at my first spot. Then valve went to recirc and I had aerator on timer. Around noon, I turned valve to auto, and pumped in fresh water for 5-10 min Then I turned valve back to recirc, added another treated frozen water bottle and aerator back to timer. The last hour or so I ran the aerator on constant until it was time to weigh in. It was a sunny day in the mid 90's with water temp in the 80's. My fish came out very lively and swam off well. I don't know if this is the BEST way (I've not had a flow right system prior to this) just wanted to share my experienece. I installed a set of VT2 vents on the lids on my Sterling and i could tell they made a difference. Letting them breath, the gases escape, and kept water cooler. I have to believe they help with the oxygen content. I have a set in my shop that I need to install on this boat. I hope some more guys that have a lot more time in there boats jump in and share. I'm all for learning things, fish care is something I take seriously.

[hooken203]

Only my opinion. Ice in the livewell bad idea. Can drop the water temp too much. What’s in the water that made the ice? Frozen pop bottles maybe a better idea but will beat your fish up when you run in rough water. In the livewell all the oxygen exchange happens on the surface. I use my livewell pump and leave them on all the time on those hot days. It does a few things helps cool the water helps clear the water of contamination from the fish and raises the oxygen level of the water. Running the recirculation helps stir the water in the livewell and as it sprays on the surface adds oxygen. Hard thing is having enough battery to keep it all going for the day. I have not had a problem yet with battery being low. Crossing fingers and knocking on wood. I have had very few fish die over the years. Mostly smallies they seem to be a more delicate fish.

[white gambler]

Only my opinion. Ice in the livewell bad idea. Can drop the water temp too much. What’s in the water that made the ice? Frozen pop bottles maybe a better idea but will beat your fish up when you run in rough water. In the livewell all the oxygen exchange happens on the surface. I use my livewell pump and leave them on all the time on those hot days. It does a few things helps cool the water helps clear the water of contamination from the fish and raises the oxygen level of the water. Running the recirculation helps stir the water in the livewell and as it sprays on the surface adds oxygen. Hard thing is having enough battery to keep it all going for the day. I have not had a problem yet with battery being low. Crossing fingers and knocking on wood. I have had very few fish die over the years. Mostly smallies they seem to be a more delicate fish.

Hooken, I froze bottled water with the catch and release premixed in it. Only used 20oz bottles, so they dissolve quickly and I remove them to avoid what you are saying in the rough water. large bottles I agree with you, no good in rough water. You said you use your "livewell pump and leave them on" are you refering to your aerator or recirc pump? or both? Also do you do this with your valve on auto or recirc?

[Johnny Maxwell]

A great read for anybody wondering about oxygen bubbles and oxygen bubble production can go online and hit a google search for "surface tension of oxygen bubbles". What you will find out is that not all bubbles are the same. Just because there are a lot of bubbles from air in the livewell does not mean there is enough oxygen. Warmer water holds substantially less oxygen for a scientific reason. The smaller the bubble and the more pure the oxygen content is, the better off you are. Also read up on saturation of oxygen in water. It is very difficult to keep oxygen in warm water and easy in cooler water. Make those bubbles pure oxygen and tiny as possible and your off to the races.

[tap_tap_boom]

Great reply’s. Has anyone used hydrogen peroxide? Again, I haven’t lost many fish so this is something that recently started happening. Thanks

[Johnny Maxwell]

Great reply’s. Has anyone used hydrogen peroxide? Again, I haven’t lost many fish so this is something that recently started happening. Thanks

It can be ok if used correctly. 3% purity is max and make sure you know how many gallons of actual water (fish do displace a lot of water) you have in the livewell. Warmer water takes a lot less peroxide to cause issues. Read up on the dosages based on water temps and fish weights. I personally think that anything that will keep a fish from dying is good. But if all it does is keep them alive long enough for a tourney weigh-in, and then they die of shock after release, shows a horrible attitude towards our great resource. I don't mean this personally of course. I just mean a long term thriving bass is better than a short term dead one. I'd def look at other methods before trying to cure the problem by dumping chemicals in the livewell. My opinion on that one. I know many might disagree but they should be able to back up their opinions with some facts.

[NOTGSXR]

Bigger problem with bags of ice is contaminants such as chlorine etc will harm the fish as well...

[white gambler]

Great reply’s. Has anyone used hydrogen peroxide? Again, I haven’t lost many fish so this is something that recently started happening. Thanks

I read a very good article a while back from Texas parks and wildlife fisheries where they discussed proper dosages and benefits of peroxide. I have a bottle in my fish care box but have not experimented with it yet. After I put those live well vents in my last boat , they seemed to help so much that I did not need any other additives any more. And the live well system and size on the sterling/gamblers is lacking compared to the one on the Allison.

[F150owner]

Wow, great info in this thread.

[hooken203]

Hooken, I froze bottled water with the catch and release premixed in it. Only used 20oz bottles, so they dissolve quickly and I remove them to avoid what you are saying in the rough water. large bottles I agree with you, no good in rough water. You said you use your "livewell pump and leave them on" are you refering to your aerator or recirc pump? or both? Also do you do this with your valve on auto or recirc?

Yes I leave my aerator pump running all the time with the valve set on Auto. I also run the recirculating pump I believe this draws water off the lower part of the livewell and then sprays it back into the surface. I fish mostly in northern Iowa on the Mississippi River so I don’t have to do this all the time but when I see water temperature in 80s I start to worry about dead fish so that’s when I leave them run.

[white gambler]

Yes I leave my aerator pump running all the time with the valve set on Auto. I also run the recirculating pump I believe this draws water off the lower part of the livewell and then sprays it back into the surface. I fish mostly in northern Iowa on the Mississippi River so I don’t have to do this all the time but when I see water temperature in 80s I start to worry about dead fish so that’s when I leave them run.

This is what I've learned with the way my system works. I'm not sure for how many years it has been set up this way on the Allisons. Took me a little bit to get use to. In regards to the recirc swith on dash panel--With flowrite valve set on auto- recirc dash switch pulls fresh water in through the lower port livewell opening (also functions to fill the well) and continues cycling fresh water in (while boat is off plane.) When boat is on plane it only recirculates the water in well and does not pull in fresh. Hence the "auto" functionality. With flowrite valve set on recirc-- it will not draw in any fresh water, only pull from one side of the lower livewell and discharge out the other lower side. It discharges water from the lower port side opening in the well always in regards to recirc dash panel switch. It does not, on my system, spray water on the surface. This would be the obvious valve setting choice for those who prefer to cool the water, treat it, and manage it, with the theory better than dumping warmer and warmer fresh water as the day gets hotter on the fish. It does create quite a bit of bubbles though down below when it is running, which I would think should help as much or potentially better than the aerator function. My aerate switch on the dash ,self explanatory, does just that. Pulls water from well and sprays it out on the surface regardless if the flowrite valve it on auto or recirc.

[minnowlimo]

Johnny, thanks for your info, This topic of fish care comes up every year in the summer. I have also done tons of reading and research to best take care of my fish but always trying to do even better. I am all ears to learning more about the subject if you have any more advice, info links or whatever. Thanks

[Woody22]

I run my livewell with valve turned to automatic and run my aerator on auto timer. If I get in dirty water, I will turn to recirculate and aerate the same water. I have fished lots of tournaments on 90 degree days and haven't lost a fish as of yet. If I have a lot of fish in well, I will turn timer to manual setting and let it run. I've learned the auto position puts plenty of water in well and replenishs it when needed. I recently weighed in 5 bass that weighed 25 lbs. (largest weight I've ever weighed in tournament) which is big on my chain of lakes and all was caught by 10 a.m. Temp was 90 degrees. I ran my aerator on manual until weigh in at 3 pm. lol All the fish was alive and well.

[Johnny Maxwell]

Johnny, thanks for your info, This topic of fish care comes up every year in the summer. I have also done tons of reading and research to best take care of my fish but always trying to do even better. I am all ears to learning more about the subject if you have any more advice, info links or whatever. Thanks

Thank you for the kind words. We all love our boats but we also all love our bass. Keeping them as healthy as possible should be very angler's top priority. I'll try my best to post some links this week of some great articles and research papers (white papers) that I have saved over the years. One thing I did not mention is wave action when deciding when to pump water into a livewell or recirc only. If the lake has a lot of wave action that has been going on for a few hours at least, that water would likely be a great candidate to pump into a livewell. Calm water that has not been agitated by the Good Lord's waves for a while could be very low in oxygen if the temperature of the water in the lake is above 80 degrees give or take a degree or two.

[minnowlimo]

Ok thanks

[Tim Powell]

Tap Tap: the aerator switch is timed and manual, the recirc switch is on/off.

Here is what I do:

Livewell valve stays on recirc and empty till I catch my first fish. Then I turn aerator switch to manual and move valve to auto. This allows fresh water to pump in continuously. When I leave good clean water I will change the valve to recirc, turn off aerator, and turn on recirc pump.

I dont use additives and I dont add ice. Very rarely do I lose a fish like this UNLESS the fish was sick when I caught it and for those there is nothing that can be done unfortunately.

Mr Maxwell is a wealth of knowledge on this subject.

Also make sure your livewell is clean. And make sure your pumps are working properly.

[JWW9589]

This is a good thread. Let me ask a question just to clarify the livewell operation. If the switch on top of the livewell is in the “recirc ” position and the aerator switch is in “auto” will you have timed recirculating of the water without pulling in new water?