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  1. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Luling, La.
    Posts
    12,738
    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bfrank View Post
    So why isn't LA like the most of the rest of the US where if it's navigable water it isn't private. That would seem to fix the issues. That's the law to pass if they are interested in fixing the problem.
    I am about to get a law degree after digging through all this mess for 3 years. When each state came into the Union....there is a deal called the Equal Footing Doctrine. Each state came with some pre-existing laws and things that governed say...marriages and property rights. In many states, they were former English, Spanish , or French possessions. The Kings and Queens of these countries gave out land grants for people to come here and settle the area for them. Every state honored existing Land Grants. The other 49 states follow English Common law, and Louisiana, followed French Napoleonic law. The US Constitution implies a deal from the English, called the Public Trust Doctrine. This was copied from that nation. It dealt with tidal waters affected by the ebb and flow of the tides. It says, no matter who sells, buys, and owns these tidal areas, the waters will remain in public trust...forever. There are several things mentioned in this deal...one being if the waters are...in fact...navigable. A state like Texas says if you can float a canoe in that water, it is navigable and public trust protected water. Louisiana has a way different definition of "navigable....like a tugboat being able to traverse it...LOL. Add in... the oil and gas industry came to this state out of Texas in the 30's. They started buying millions of acres collectively for the mineral rights....are are the biggest collective owners of our coastal areas. They slowly paid our legislators to amend laws pertaining to our waterways....of course...for their benefit. Furthermore, a judge here ruled that one must go back to when this state was admitted into the Union....in 1812...and look at the map of that time to determine...if a water area was...navigable. Complete BullChit! The maps at that time were so incomplete, that many areas were not even named or surveyed. This is what they stuck us with. In 1988, Phillips Petroleum was sued by the State of Mississippi...when Phillips was about to sink some wells in their coastal area below I-10. Phillips claimed they owned certain bays, inlets, and rivers. The state said no, they owned much of what Phillips was claiming. This went to the Supreme Court, and Phillips...lost. The court told Phillips the US gave those areas to the State of Mississippi in 1815....when they came into the Union. Furthermore, the Court told Phillips that the wetlands they did own, they could not post it and keep citizens out of it...it was PUBLIC TRUST Waters OF THE US, as well as that state. Well, when that ruling came down, the oil companies here liked to chit a brick. Louisiana has the largest areas of wetlands in the nation, Miss. only has a little. Huge amounts of money, mineral rights, access all were at risk for them. What did they do??? Well they did what they always did since they came into this state...buy politicians. In 1992, they had the Legislators further amend our laws to make it even muddier, and harder...to change. This is where we are now. The citizens cannot change nothing, our "representatives" must vote and change it. Our group, for the first time ever, got a bill out of Committee and on the floor of the house to be voted on last year, HB 370. The bought hacks in that Committee thought they had to votes to table the bill, but we got some newly elected House members on the Committee, and narrowly got it out. The La Landowners Assoc and the big oil companies were livid. Before the House vote, the big boys brought in 21 big lobbyist from DC, and started handing out checks. We lost the Bill by a few votes. With thousands at the Capital , they tried not to vote on the bill, and to add amendments that would be a poison pill to it. This went on for hours, but it showed the public how business was done in these halls of power....and people finally looked up from their cell phones and laptops to realize...they better start demanding better representation. So the next election coming will be interesting. I told folks to vote out anyone who has been there over 8 years, especially those who have been in there for...generations. GET THEM THE HELL OUT! Then, I reckon we will see how things go. Now fellas, if you hear about my brakes not working on the interstate, or a fit of depression and a ..suicide... DO NOT BUY IT! LOL. I told the folks here 3 years ago when we started this, it would not be a one or two or 3 year fight, but years. There was a group in the 90's who tried what we are doing, and another group i the early 2000's who tried. They only lasted a few years before they were beat down. One thing we made sure to let this greedy bastards know is....we will be around here...for as long as it takes. They HOUSE decided to form a two year taskforce on this mess, of which we have 3 members on. It will report recommendations in February. I feel it is a waste of time, but we are working on things in the meantime. I have gotten word from Shell Oil and another big company, that they broke away from the Landowners Assoc, and are in conflict with those folks. They also sent word they have no issues with the public using the waterways, so that is good to hear. But we must change things here...or it will continue to go downhill.

  2. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    3,711
    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by lakebouef5 View Post
    I am about to get a law degree after digging through all this mess for 3 years. When each state came into the Union....there is a deal called the Equal Footing Doctrine. Each state came with some pre-existing laws and things that governed say...marriages and property rights. In many states, they were former English, Spanish , or French possessions. The Kings and Queens of these countries gave out land grants for people to come here and settle the area for them. Every state honored existing Land Grants. The other 49 states follow English Common law, and Louisiana, followed French Napoleonic law. The US Constitution implies a deal from the English, called the Public Trust Doctrine. This was copied from that nation. It dealt with tidal waters affected by the ebb and flow of the tides. It says, no matter who sells, buys, and owns these tidal areas, the waters will remain in public trust...forever. There are several things mentioned in this deal...one being if the waters are...in fact...navigable. A state like Texas says if you can float a canoe in that water, it is navigable and public trust protected water. Louisiana has a way different definition of "navigable....like a tugboat being able to traverse it...LOL. Add in... the oil and gas industry came to this state out of Texas in the 30's. They started buying millions of acres collectively for the mineral rights....are are the biggest collective owners of our coastal areas. They slowly paid our legislators to amend laws pertaining to our waterways....of course...for their benefit. Furthermore, a judge here ruled that one must go back to when this state was admitted into the Union....in 1812...and look at the map of that time to determine...if a water area was...navigable. Complete BullChit! The maps at that time were so incomplete, that many areas were not even named or surveyed. This is what they stuck us with. In 1988, Phillips Petroleum was sued by the State of Mississippi...when Phillips was about to sink some wells in their coastal area below I-10. Phillips claimed they owned certain bays, inlets, and rivers. The state said no, they owned much of what Phillips was claiming. This went to the Supreme Court, and Phillips...lost. The court told Phillips the US gave those areas to the State of Mississippi in 1815....when they came into the Union. Furthermore, the Court told Phillips that the wetlands they did own, they could not post it and keep citizens out of it...it was PUBLIC TRUST Waters OF THE US, as well as that state. Well, when that ruling came down, the oil companies here liked to chit a brick. Louisiana has the largest areas of wetlands in the nation, Miss. only has a little. Huge amounts of money, mineral rights, access all were at risk for them. What did they do??? Well they did what they always did since they came into this state...buy politicians. In 1992, they had the Legislators further amend our laws to make it even muddier, and harder...to change. This is where we are now. The citizens cannot change nothing, our "representatives" must vote and change it. Our group, for the first time ever, got a bill out of Committee and on the floor of the house to be voted on last year, HB 370. The bought hacks in that Committee thought they had to votes to table the bill, but we got some newly elected House members on the Committee, and narrowly got it out. The La Landowners Assoc and the big oil companies were livid. Before the House vote, the big boys brought in 21 big lobbyist from DC, and started handing out checks. We lost the Bill by a few votes. With thousands at the Capital , they tried not to vote on the bill, and to add amendments that would be a poison pill to it. This went on for hours, but it showed the public how business was done in these halls of power....and people finally looked up from their cell phones and laptops to realize...they better start demanding better representation. So the next election coming will be interesting. I told folks to vote out anyone who has been there over 8 years, especially those who have been in there for...generations. GET THEM THE HELL OUT! Then, I reckon we will see how things go. Now fellas, if you hear about my brakes not working on the interstate, or a fit of depression and a ..suicide... DO NOT BUY IT! LOL. I told the folks here 3 years ago when we started this, it would not be a one or two or 3 year fight, but years. There was a group in the 90's who tried what we are doing, and another group i the early 2000's who tried. They only lasted a few years before they were beat down. One thing we made sure to let this greedy bastards know is....we will be around here...for as long as it takes. They HOUSE decided to form a two year taskforce on this mess, of which we have 3 members on. It will report recommendations in February. I feel it is a waste of time, but we are working on things in the meantime. I have gotten word from Shell Oil and another big company, that they broke away from the Landowners Assoc, and are in conflict with those folks. They also sent word they have no issues with the public using the waterways, so that is good to hear. But we must change things here...or it will continue to go downhill.
    Good luck!! Truly.

    It's sad it is so hard to get sportsmen and many commercial interests on the same page...for the betterment of the majority. Seems nowadays...every group hates every other group!

  3. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    775
    #23

    Praying

    Lb5 it’s obvious you’re fighting an uphill battle and we thank you for your perseverance ...unfortunately for many “ out of sight out of mind”...You mention you’re fighting for your grandkids, I’m still trying like hell to get their parents to shive a git for our days are numbered. Big industry thumbed their noses where I came from & bought gov officials. I screamed you’ve contaminated our water, earth, & air to no avail. Then big industry throws another X number of dollars to enlarge a school, expand their business, pay college tuitions. I wish you all the best sir. We’re a small category. And the flooding is only going to get worse.

  4. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Luling, La.
    Posts
    12,738
    #24
    These greedy people on on boards of other companies, and have huntung and fishing interest in other states. I hear they are starting to apply some similar tactics...stay vigilant. Wherever you live.

  5. Better Lucky Than Good! Casslaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    7,035
    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by lakebouef5 View Post
    I am about to get a law degree after digging through all this mess for 3 years. When each state came into the Union....there is a deal called the Equal Footing Doctrine. Each state came with some pre-existing laws and things that governed say...marriages and property rights. In many states, they were former English, Spanish , or French possessions. The Kings and Queens of these countries gave out land grants for people to come here and settle the area for them. Every state honored existing Land Grants. The other 49 states follow English Common law, and Louisiana, followed French Napoleonic law. The US Constitution implies a deal from the English, called the Public Trust Doctrine. This was copied from that nation. It dealt with tidal waters affected by the ebb and flow of the tides. It says, no matter who sells, buys, and owns these tidal areas, the waters will remain in public trust...forever. There are several things mentioned in this deal...one being if the waters are...in fact...navigable. A state like Texas says if you can float a canoe in that water, it is navigable and public trust protected water. Louisiana has a way different definition of "navigable....like a tugboat being able to traverse it...LOL. Add in... the oil and gas industry came to this state out of Texas in the 30's. They started buying millions of acres collectively for the mineral rights....are are the biggest collective owners of our coastal areas. They slowly paid our legislators to amend laws pertaining to our waterways....of course...for their benefit. Furthermore, a judge here ruled that one must go back to when this state was admitted into the Union....in 1812...and look at the map of that time to determine...if a water area was...navigable. Complete BullChit! The maps at that time were so incomplete, that many areas were not even named or surveyed. This is what they stuck us with. In 1988, Phillips Petroleum was sued by the State of Mississippi...when Phillips was about to sink some wells in their coastal area below I-10. Phillips claimed they owned certain bays, inlets, and rivers. The state said no, they owned much of what Phillips was claiming. This went to the Supreme Court, and Phillips...lost. The court told Phillips the US gave those areas to the State of Mississippi in 1815....when they came into the Union. Furthermore, the Court told Phillips that the wetlands they did own, they could not post it and keep citizens out of it...it was PUBLIC TRUST Waters OF THE US, as well as that state. Well, when that ruling came down, the oil companies here liked to chit a brick. Louisiana has the largest areas of wetlands in the nation, Miss. only has a little. Huge amounts of money, mineral rights, access all were at risk for them. What did they do??? Well they did what they always did since they came into this state...buy politicians. In 1992, they had the Legislators further amend our laws to make it even muddier, and harder...to change. This is where we are now. The citizens cannot change nothing, our "representatives" must vote and change it. Our group, for the first time ever, got a bill out of Committee and on the floor of the house to be voted on last year, HB 370. The bought hacks in that Committee thought they had to votes to table the bill, but we got some newly elected House members on the Committee, and narrowly got it out. The La Landowners Assoc and the big oil companies were livid. Before the House vote, the big boys brought in 21 big lobbyist from DC, and started handing out checks. We lost the Bill by a few votes. With thousands at the Capital , they tried not to vote on the bill, and to add amendments that would be a poison pill to it. This went on for hours, but it showed the public how business was done in these halls of power....and people finally looked up from their cell phones and laptops to realize...they better start demanding better representation. So the next election coming will be interesting. I told folks to vote out anyone who has been there over 8 years, especially those who have been in there for...generations. GET THEM THE HELL OUT! Then, I reckon we will see how things go. Now fellas, if you hear about my brakes not working on the interstate, or a fit of depression and a ..suicide... DO NOT BUY IT! LOL. I told the folks here 3 years ago when we started this, it would not be a one or two or 3 year fight, but years. There was a group in the 90's who tried what we are doing, and another group i the early 2000's who tried. They only lasted a few years before they were beat down. One thing we made sure to let this greedy bastards know is....we will be around here...for as long as it takes. They HOUSE decided to form a two year taskforce on this mess, of which we have 3 members on. It will report recommendations in February. I feel it is a waste of time, but we are working on things in the meantime. I have gotten word from Shell Oil and another big company, that they broke away from the Landowners Assoc, and are in conflict with those folks. They also sent word they have no issues with the public using the waterways, so that is good to hear. But we must change things here...or it will continue to go downhill.
    Good for you! I really enjoy reading about someone using their degree for the good of us all! If you could only get lobbyists out of the govt. we would have representatives making decisions on OUR behalf! If I can help in any way feel free to PM me! Not sure I know any more about this topic than you do, likely much less, but if I can help I will.
    2006 Triton SP-185, 2006 Evinrude Etec 90, PowerTech NRS3, Garmin Echomap Plus 73CV & 93SV

  6. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Schertz Tx
    Posts
    819
    #26
    Its truly sickening. Ive been involved in a similar bureaucratic mess for gulf fisheries for years. Its amazing how OVERbought our rights are when it comes to access in all these aspects. I wish you the best and hope at some point we start to make headway. SEC helped us last time round but its gonna be short lived unless those that are bought within NOAA and the EDF through business deals can be weeded out. Best wishes its a battle I understand just not in the same aspect.

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