Electrically challanged!

[ChrisS22]

Here's my set up
2x31 series Batteries Plus deep cycles (brand new)
1x27 Northstar X2 (1r old)

80lb ultrex
onix
Helix
360

Here's the story...

A couple weeks ago my trolling batteries went dead after about 7hrs of fishing. Given batteries were three years old and the cheap one's that came with when new the boat I assumed a set of new batteries were in order so I bought two new deep cycle 31s from batteries plus.

I plug in the charger (3 bank pro mariner) and fish a few times. Get home plug in the on board charger and trip a GFI overnight. I plug into another GFI and trip that one as well. I check voltage and the charger is only putting out 12.5 -12.4v to each bank. I install a new minn kota 330d check the next day and all 3 batteries read 12.8-12.9 I'm thinking life is good again. Unplug charger and check the batteries 24hrs later the 31s read 12.28v &12.34v , the X2 reads 12.3v. Plug in charger and it shows 13.5v to all bank's. I leave teh charger plugged in and in less than 10min the charger indicates all batteries are fully charged.

I unplug from the charger and check each bank periodically....


7:01 31a-12.80v 31b-12.88v X2-12.74v
7:50 31a-12.58v 31b-12.69v X2-12.61v
9:00 31a- 12.56v 31b-12.64v X2-12.60v


1)I'm perplexed that the batteries would show a full charge in approximately 10mn
2)I had the master turned off so there shouldn't have been any draw overnight. I later determined my ultrex would turn on even with the master switched to off (another bug I can't quite figure out)

I plugged the on board back in overnight then unplugged it this morning. I also disconnected the trolling motor. Plan is to check voltage this evening. Any advice is appreciated?

[CatFan]

You should see well over 13V with the charger plugged. How are you measuring the voltages? If it’s a meter, I’d try another one.

[Jonestrollingmotor]

As said above, I would try a different meter. On the other hand, usually when it only takes 10min to charge, there is usually a battery issue and I understand that two new batteries shouldn't have an issue.
John

[ChrisS22]

I checked using a Centech meter...When I initially plugged the charger in I got 13.56v 13.57v & 13.56v, should the readings be higher ? Is it possible my old charger smoked all 3 batteries?

[CatFan]

I checked using a Centech meter...When I initially plugged the charger in I got 13.56v 13.57v & 13.56v, should the readings be higher ? Is it possible my old charger smoked all 3 batteries?

You should never see less than 13V with the charger plugged in unless the batteries are deeply discharged. When first plugging in you should see something around 14.5V. Try your meter on your truck battery just for a sanity check.

[ChrisS22]

Well I purchased a new multimeter and checked the batteries. After a 24hr rest from charging they all read 13.1v. I went this past weekend and after ~ 6hrs of moderate use the trolling batteries were pretty much smoked. I had to have the cable on my ultrex replaced and asked to tech to check for a parasitic drain he couldn't find one.

One other question, does the voltage read out on humninbirds show the voltage from the cranking battery? I'm assuming it does as mine run off the cranking battery but I hate to assume. Whats odd is that voltage gets low as well and I put onix at the console on standby and only use my 360 and Helix whenever I'm at the bow.

[rocket man]

Humminbirds will show voltage of bat. connected to.

[Jonestrollingmotor]

On most boats, the trolling motor is wired to it's own batteries with the depth finders and other accessories on the cranking battery. If left connected, there is a parasitic draw on all variable speed trollingmotors, but it's not enough to deplete batteries over a day's fishing. When you used the term "pretty much smoked", what was the battery reading after "6hrs of moderate use" and can you define "moderate". Also, look at the RC on the trolling motor battery and divide it by 60. This will tell you how many hours of continuous draw that battery can have at a defined (not sure what draw rate the Batteries Plus are rated) rate of draw. Ie:, a battery with 220RC that is rated at a 20A draw will sustain the 20A draw for a little over 3.5hrs. The trolling motor is drawing apx 50A while turned on. If you're not running on high speed, the 50A is broke up into pulses based on the speed setting(for instance, with speed set to 50%, you're drawing apx 50A, 50% of the time that you're on the button so each minute on the button is actually pulling 30seconds from the battery.) With all this in mind, depending on what moderate is, 6hrs may be the best you'll see.
John

[ChrisS22]

I wasn't able to check my voltage when I got home due to bad weather. But I'm guessing I was around 12.1-12.2. At the end of my day I had the ultrex turned up to 10 and was only doing 1.5mph, on fresh batteries I usually get 2.8mph. Moderate use for me is trolling between 2-5 on the dial. Worse thing is before the new batteries I could spider rig all day and without any noticeable loss of power. My plan I to take my meter this weekend and check he voltage periodically. Problem is at this point I'm out of my league on figuring what the problem is.

[billnorman1]

If you run your trolling motor batteries down to where you have to use full power, and the motor still won't perform, you are damaging the batteries.
You say you bought new deep cycle batteries, what size are they and what is their AH rating?

[ChrisS22]

Duracell deep cycle 31s from Batteries Plus. AH is 105

[BigBucketMouth33]

Does your ultrex run through a 50 amp breaker that you can turn the power off to?

[jawjatek]

I can run my 80 lb Terrova on my 2 group 31 Duracell Ultimate Platinum Deep Cycle AGM batteries all weekend without needing recharging. The TM is the only thing connected to them, except a Dual Pro charger I plug in when I get home. Boat is a 17' Alweld mod V with a 50 HP, so it is on the light side. Something is draining your batteries, but without looking at it, or a lot more info, I can't say what that might be.

[Dixie Chicken]

Not that it's drastically different, albeit different none-the-less... the voltage displayed by the Humminbird is the voltage it sees on the board itself, WHILE it's on... INSIDE the unit. (Rather than voltage outside directly across the terminals.) This will always be less than what you'll see directly across the battery terminals, at the battery. Depending on wiring from the battery, fuse block, etc. it could easily be a few tenths.

[ChrisS22]

Does your ultrex run through a 50 amp breaker that you can turn the power off to?

Yes, its a 2016 Basscat with a breaker at the battery. But during my last trouble shoot I determined that even with the breaker turned off the Ultrex would still get power up.

[BigBucketMouth33]

Yes, its a 2016 Basscat with a breaker at the battery. But during my last trouble shoot I determined that even with the breaker turned off the Ultrex would still get power up.

Thats why i was curious to know if you had the breaker. If the breaker is in the off position then your ultrex shouldn't be able to power up. Without being present to troubleshoot it sounds like you have a bad breaker. That may be contributing to draining the batteries

[SamMule]

Easy to test the breaker. Out one voltmeter lead on each side of the breaker.
With breaker off should read whatever your system voltage is. 12v/24v.
This confirms breaker shuts off properly.
Switch breaker to on and voltage should read at or very near 0v.
This confirms good continuity and no voltage lost through breaker.
If readings are anything other than described, remove breaker & check voltage across open circuit. Should be system voltage.
At this point, if you get anything other than system voltage, you have problems elsewhere.

[Kanuck1958]

Easy to test the breaker. Out one voltmeter lead on each side of the breaker.
With breaker off should read whatever your system voltage is. 12v/24v.
This confirms breaker shuts off properly.
Switch breaker to on and voltage should read at or very near 0v.
This confirms good continuity and no voltage lost through breaker.
If readings are anything other than described, remove breaker & check voltage across open circuit. Should be system voltage.
At this point, if you get anything other than system voltage, you have problems elsewhere.

Well, you almost got that correct. What you are describing is a voltage drop across a static circuit. That won't tell you anything. The circuit has to be dynamic to give you an accurate voltage drop across the circuit breaker.

[SamMule]

Well, you almost got that correct. What you are describing is a voltage drop across a static circuit. That won't tell you anything. The circuit has to be dynamic to give you an accurate voltage drop across the circuit breaker.

First test is static. And yes, it will absolutely show a drop of system voltage across the open circuit breaker. The positive side is wired directly to the battery, so the available voltage at that point will be, in this case, ~24v

By closing the breaker and creating a complete circuit, you are confirming that you do not have any unwanted voltage dropped across the breaker. Closed circuit = dynamic. Easy way to check for excessive resistance across breaker.

Now, if there is a power or ground supply issue, or another circuit somewhere parallel bypassing the breaker, you will see 0v in test #1 and we can go from there.
Voltmeter can be used in either static or dynamic circuits. Just depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Ammeter, (which is what I suspect you're thinking of) on the other hand will only work in series on a dynamic (operating) circuit.
My favorite tool for finding a parasitic draw is an inductive clamp. Which, would be my next suggestion after confirming normal breaker operation.

[Kanuck1958]

First test is static. And yes, it will absolutely show a drop of system voltage across the open circuit breaker. The positive side is wired directly to the battery, so the available voltage at that point will be, in this case, ~24v

By closing the breaker and creating a complete circuit, you are confirming that you do not have any unwanted voltage dropped across the breaker. Closed circuit = dynamic. Easy way to check for excessive resistance across breaker.

Now, if there is a power or ground supply issue, or another circuit somewhere parallel bypassing the breaker, you will see 0v in test #1 and we can go from there.
Voltmeter can be used in either static or dynamic circuits. Just depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Ammeter, (which is what I suspect you're thinking of) on the other hand will only work in series on a dynamic (operating) circuit.
My favorite tool for finding a parasitic draw is an inductive clamp. Which, would be my next suggestion after confirming normal breaker operation.

Sorry, still wrong