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  1. Member
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    #881
    I would like to give a BIG shout out to Andy at Drewtek, and the folks at LithiumHub. I was contacted by Andy and asked if I would like to upgrade my two Ionic LithiumHub 12V 50ah TM batteries. I was offered an upgrade/trade in of the two 50s for two 12V 100ah Ionic LithiumHubs. I accepted their offer, at what I considered to be a very fair turn in / upgrade price.

    It is nice to know the dealers and companies of products we buy are concerned, and watching.

    Andy and the folks at LithiumHub.......

    Thank you!
    Ed
    Ed R.


    2006 ChampioN 198 225 Optimax

  2. Member
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    #882
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed R View Post
    I would like to give a BIG shout out to Andy at Drewtek, and the folks at LithiumHub. I was contacted by Andy and asked if I would like to upgrade my two Ionic LithiumHub 12V 50ah TM batteries. I was offered an upgrade/trade in of the two 50s for two 12V 100ah Ionic LithiumHubs. I accepted their offer, at what I considered to be a very fair turn in / upgrade price.

    It is nice to know the dealers and companies of products we buy are concerned, and watching.

    Andy and the folks at LithiumHub.......

    Thank you!
    Ed
    Andy is great to deal with.

  3. Wren
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Jeanerette, Louisiana
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    161
    #883
    2nd test my Ionic 50A batteries and 125A cranking,36v Minn Kota Fortrex today in a tournament, daybreak to 3pm.

    71% showing on the App for trolling and 87% left on cranking running live wells, 12 and 9 Lowrance Units.

    So I think I have the correct setup.

  4. Member
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    Aug 2019
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    Novato, CA
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    #884
    I am getting a new boat with a Merc 250 4 stroke and I was going to use my Lithium Ionic 125 for the cranking battery, but from what I can find, it is not compatible with those motors. Does anyone if that is really the case?

    Does a lithium programmed Dual Pro charger work on regaulr lead batteries also ?

  5. Member
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    Jun 2012
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    17
    #885
    I’d like to order 3 myself, do I just order direct from the website? Also I have a an original ranger 4 bank charger. Will this work, or do I need a new charger, I am currently running a north star agm 31 for cranking.

  6. BBC SPONSOR / PHOENIX MOD DREWTICK's Avatar
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    #886
    Quote Originally Posted by JCClark View Post
    I am getting a new boat with a Merc 250 4 stroke and I was going to use my Lithium Ionic 125 for the cranking battery, but from what I can find, it is not compatible with those motors. Does anyone if that is really the case?

    Does a lithium programmed Dual Pro charger work on regaulr lead batteries also ?
    we can have dual pro program one bank for agm, you could charge a lead battery with the bank programmed for lithium but they (dualpro) says this should only be for a temporary situation.

    also this should be the NANO profile which is now dual pros standard lithium profile for most major brands including Ionic
    Drewcraft Specializes in Lithium Batteries and Chargers, We carry all Brands of Trolling Motors and Graphs, Minnkota, Lowrance, Garmin, Motorguide
    910-722-0001 call or text
    info@drewcraft.com

  7. BBC SPONSOR / PHOENIX MOD DREWTICK's Avatar
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    #887
    Quote Originally Posted by frogmanmike View Post
    I’d like to order 3 myself, do I just order direct from the website? Also I have a an original ranger 4 bank charger. Will this work, or do I need a new charger, I am currently running a north star agm 31 for cranking.
    I can hook you up, PM me your email address and I will send you a price and some info about the chargers, I will need to know what charger you currently have
    Drewcraft Specializes in Lithium Batteries and Chargers, We carry all Brands of Trolling Motors and Graphs, Minnkota, Lowrance, Garmin, Motorguide
    910-722-0001 call or text
    info@drewcraft.com

  8. Member
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    Oct 2012
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    San Francisco, CA
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    53
    #888
    Hello!

    I ran my 125Ah cranking and 3 X 50Ah trolling batteries for the first time last week. At the end of the day 1 my cranking was at 98% and trolling batteries at 60%.

    * I was fun fishing so didn’t run any pumps
    * I got on the water at 7am and no lights were necessary
    * It was a pretty windy day, so I would say trolling motor a little more then average workout

    I didn’t even charge the cranking battery overnight and went out day 2. In the afternoon while making a descent run all my electronics shut off. I immediately looked at the app and it showed me cranking battery is 100% charged and it also showed me High Voltage error. When I got on plane and started to run again, same thing occurred.

    I figured that since I was not running many items that drain the battery it must be charging faster then it’s draining, and when it gets to full it turns itself off to prevent overcharge. I sort of solved the problem by running my live well pump the rest of the day.

    Has anyone else experienced this?

    Thank you in advance!
    Last edited by Igor Reiant; 09-23-2019 at 03:23 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. young angler 188Musky's Avatar
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    The shores of Lake Michigan, Wisconsin
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    #889
    Igor, what kind of motor do you have on your boat?

    My ProXS would not send the battery into alarm when it was at 100%, but will show a much lower charge rate, say 1 amp.

    Later in the day, after using some of the charge on the battery, it will charge at a higher rate.

    The highest voltage I have ever seen while running is 13.7 volts, using both the Smartcraft gauge, and the voltage display on my Lowrance MFDs.

  10. Member
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    #890
    Quote Originally Posted by 188Musky View Post
    Igor, what kind of motor do you have on your boat?
    I am running Mercury 225 ProXS

    When you say "it would send the battery into alarm" what do you mean by that?

  11. Member
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    #891
    Quote Originally Posted by Igor Reiant View Post
    I am running Mercury 225 ProXS

    When you say "it would send the battery into alarm" what do you mean by that?
    I think he means the battery management circuitry would cut off the battery, just as it appears to have done for you.

    I'm not necessarily implying a problem, but it's possible there is an issue with your charging system, maybe? I also wouldn't have the foggiest idea of how to test it on the ProXS. Seems like it must be one of two things, either the voltage regulator on the charging system of the motor is allowing a higher voltage than normal, or the BMS on the battery, that cuts it off, is not right. You may need to look into what the normal output voltage range should be on your motor. I believe the BMS on the battery is supposed to allow up to 15.1-15.2V, at which point it will cut off or isolate the battery to prevent over voltage damage.
    Kevin | 2000 Champion 19​1 | 2000 Yamaha OX66 200hp

  12. young angler 188Musky's Avatar
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    #892
    Quote Originally Posted by Igor Reiant View Post
    I am running Mercury 225 ProXS

    When you say "it would send the battery into alarm" what do you mean by that?
    Kevin is correct, I mean that there is no high voltage error, or red dot on the third screen of the Ionic app.

    Mine is a 225 ProXS as well.

    A start would be to check the voltage while running on your Smartcraft gauge, or your sonar/gps voltage display.

    Watching the charge cycles of my Ionic batteries, charging with an older Dual Pro 15/15/15, they seem to go into error and prevent the battery from further charge at 14.7 volts on the app. My motor never exceeds about 13.7 volts.

  13. Member
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    #893
    I tried charging each battery individually with a portable LiFePO4 charger to see how they behave at full charge, where it’s full and at what point I may get that High Voltage error. I tested 2 out of 4 of my batteries so far. One was cranking 125Ah, and second was the 50Ah trolling #1. They both seem to get that HV error BEFORE the charger turns off (before charger recognizes that battery is full). Charger is set up with the max output of 14.6v. However the battery turn on High Voltage error right when it’s about to reach 14.4v, and looking at the INDIVIDUAL cells I notice they are NOT BALANCED at full charge. As a result I think one of the cells that goes over 3.7v is causing this error.

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.23.10 AM.jpg

    Here I am adding up the voltage of each cell:

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.26.16 AM.png

  14. Member
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    #894
    Mine are doing the same thing with Minnkota 460PC charger set to AGM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor Reiant View Post
    I tried charging each battery individually with a portable LiFePO4 charger to see how they behave at full charge, where it’s full and at what point I may get that High Voltage error. I tested 2 out of 4 of my batteries so far. One was cranking 125Ah, and second was the 50Ah trolling #1. They both seem to get that HV error BEFORE the charger turns off (before charger recognizes that battery is full). Charger is set up with the max output of 14.6v. However the battery turn on High Voltage error right when it’s about to reach 14.4v, and looking at the INDIVIDUAL cells I notice they are NOT BALANCED at full charge. As a result I think one of the cells that goes over 3.7v is causing this error.

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.23.10 AM.jpg

    Here I am adding up the voltage of each cell:

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.26.16 AM.png

  15. Member
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    Chesterfield VA
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    #895
    Quote Originally Posted by Igor Reiant View Post
    I tried charging each battery individually with a portable LiFePO4 charger to see how they behave at full charge, where it’s full and at what point I may get that High Voltage error. I tested 2 out of 4 of my batteries so far. One was cranking 125Ah, and second was the 50Ah trolling #1. They both seem to get that HV error BEFORE the charger turns off (before charger recognizes that battery is full). Charger is set up with the max output of 14.6v. However the battery turn on High Voltage error right when it’s about to reach 14.4v, and looking at the INDIVIDUAL cells I notice they are NOT BALANCED at full charge. As a result I think one of the cells that goes over 3.7v is causing this error.

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.23.10 AM.jpg

    Here I am adding up the voltage of each cell:

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.26.16 AM.png
    I think we need input from Andy or Lithium Hub - doesn't seem right that it is cutting out at 14.4V, even 14.6 should be ok. You may be onto something with the idea of high voltage on one cell. Don't know enough about the BMS to know if it should be able to balance charge as well, you'd think it would, which would mean selectively cutting out certain cells until they are of equal charge. At the limit of my understanding I'm afraid.
    Kevin | 2000 Champion 19​1 | 2000 Yamaha OX66 200hp

  16. Member
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    Edina, MN
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    #896
    This has been one of my concerns and why I am hesitant to move forward with lithiums (well, and my 31 AGMs are a year old and will probably last a few more years, but the weight savings would be nice and would spur me to move before my batteries need replacing).

    I have a 2013 Mercury 150 Fourstroke and the alternator puts out a solid 14.6v at above 2000 RPM, with live well and two Lowrance graphs running. Just seems a bit close to the HV limit for my liking at the moment. Well, that and cold weather issues.

    I also think it would be a good idea for lithiumhub.com/RangerZ to be a sponsor. I know Drew-Tek is and that is great.

  17. Member Bob B's Avatar
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    #897
    Quote Originally Posted by Igor Reiant View Post
    I tried charging each battery individually with a portable LiFePO4 charger to see how they behave at full charge, where it’s full and at what point I may get that High Voltage error. I tested 2 out of 4 of my batteries so far. One was cranking 125Ah, and second was the 50Ah trolling #1. They both seem to get that HV error BEFORE the charger turns off (before charger recognizes that battery is full). Charger is set up with the max output of 14.6v. However the battery turn on High Voltage error right when it’s about to reach 14.4v, and looking at the INDIVIDUAL cells I notice they are NOT BALANCED at full charge. As a result I think one of the cells that goes over 3.7v is causing this error.

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.23.10 AM.jpg

    Here I am adding up the voltage of each cell:

    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.26.16 AM.png
    The balance on those cells is too far off. Does the BMS balance them out after they sit for a while?
    __________________________________________________ ___

    **Looking for the one that makes it all worthwhile**
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  18. Member
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    #898
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob B View Post
    The balance on those cells is too far off. Does the BMS balance them out after they sit for a while?
    Yes! From what I am told the BMS should be balancing the cells. In my case I see them balanced most of the time, and they start to get off balance when charging above 14.2v and further you go the more unbalanced they seem. Once they sit for a little bit and charge drops a little they come back to balance.

    If BMS protects each cell individually 3.7v is definitely HV for that cell

    If 14.6v is max charge for these batteries, simple math ==> 14.6v / 4 cells = 3.65v per cell max in that case, while 3.7v x 4 would be 14.8v and that would be overcharge.

  19. Member
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    Nov 2010
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    Salisbury, NC
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    #899
    fishnfireman, I don't know anything about your motor. I don't know what battery you are using or have tried to use. In fact I don't know any thing at all about your experience in engines. I'm not qualified to even make a guess about your engine. No one is going to guarantee what will happen to you. I stated in "my" experience "my engine keeps running when disconnected from the battery". The fact is as long as the alternator on the outboard functions properly the engine runs off of it, not the battery. You can use any battery you want. There are some post right on this thread that states some lihium batteries management board's has been redesigned to take care of high voltage spikes coming from the alternator that normally shuts off the battery. That is programmed for the board to shut off at 15V to protect itself.
    So what you need to understand is the engine does not run off of a battery. The battery is used to start the engine and maintain power to run a 12Volt system.
    As for what you were "told" I can't comment on that either, because I don't know the actual fact's first hand. There are some posts of graphs and charts going off, but not the outboard itself, not the outboard itself is a key item.
    Let's look at something else:
    Say your automobile's battery is dead. The process would be to jump start the engine. Once the jump start power is removed and the engine keeps running, the reasonable answer is to get the battery checked. If the engine stops when the jump power is removed, the reasonable answer would be to get the alternator checked. Simple fact the engine will run because of the alternator current. Now what is the battery really for, it's there to run your automobile's 12 volt system, power windows, headlamps, air conditioner, etc.
    Now, the reason that the lithium battery makers are reprogramming the management boards to not shut down is because "The outboard electical system is putting out over current voltage" this is a very undesireable solution. The outboard current should be corrected, not the battery management board. The way it manifest itself is in the "Charts and Graph's cutting off", this happens why? Because the battery is getting to high of a current and shutting itself off to protect itself and your 12 Volt devices. The aggravating factor is "we have to push the Graph or Charts power button" to restart them, livewells come on because they are on a switch and start as soon as current is restored.
    Mike I cannot guarantee anything for you, I certainly wish I could. The technology of lithium is a great source of power for our use. The science of them is complicated for most. Overall I'm very happy with lithium especially IONIC lithium batteries. I hope you can find away to enjoy the same technology as a great number of fishermen on BBC have found.
    I'm hopeful we will find why outboards alternators cause the high voltage output. I'm trying to help find answer's not only for myself but so other's can enjoy the technology that's here for us. Once again I don't know if reprogramming the management boards is a good thing or not. Seem's to me that was the purpose of the board to begin with to protect from over voltages for safety and to keep cells charged and balanced.
    I hpe you find what you are looking for.
    I'm posting this so it can be seen on this thread also. It is posted on another thread as of today, 9-25-19.


    RangerZ - IONIC Batteries, Lithiumhub.com

  20. Member
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    #900
    DQM, I am currently working with Igor. Right now I'm waiting to hear from on the water results. Igor's batteries are brand new and have not seen hardly any use, on the water one time to see how boat performance would be I think. He has been doing some testing on his batteries as a result of a HV light on the Bluetooth app that was detected on the cranking battery, when his graphs shut down. He has posted some pictures on this thread of the app display. At the value's posted and recorded their will be no degrade in the batteries performance and use. The descepency could be in the app software, we have to find out. Keep in mind the app reads in miliamps. The total 14.6 voltage is not exceeded and the battery once sitting and stabilized the cells are in the appropreate voltage's. I don't want to get into the science of lithium because of the many techinical questions that could be ask.
    We have to realize battery cells are made by the million's and will commonly have a few different characteristic just through mass prodution, etc, a cell having a slight higher voltage, a cell having a slight more chemical amount. Then the cells are assembled to make the actual battery. After assembly there can be slight differences in the actual build of that battery, etc, a connection that has a slight amount of solder on connecting wires or the BMB build, there are a multitude of componets on the Board itself. Then the resistance of lithium is very low. All of these things can contribute to a minute voltage variance, as we are looking at ten thousandths of a volt. These specifications can only be measured accurately on labratory equipment in a labratory enviroment.
    Bobcoy posted a link on this thread earlier that is very good reading on lithium and will explain a lot to anyone interested. I would advise those that are deeply interested do read it.
    Back to the HV error. Charging a battery when it is at 100% surges the battery temporarily giving the same error as Igor has shown. This tells us if the battery is at full charge and gets hit with high amperage the voltage has to go some where, thus a temporary HV error. As soon as the current is removed the battery stabalizes and is within it's parameter's.
    I will be working to find answers we need with the technical people at IONIC. I would like to say Igor has been very helpful in finding the HV error with his testing, a appreciated and grateful thank you to him for providing his findings. I will post when I know more.


    RangerZ - IONIC Batteries, Lithiumhub.com

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