Battery charger and battery life question.

[Delta Bass Fool]

So the Minn Kota Digital's are doing good things. I think I'll call minn kota to ask about the differences between the Digital and the PC models.

[catdude28]

Delta, I have been using commercial flooded batteries for cranking in my last three boats, of which the last two have been the same rebadged Deka battery that you just bought. The first thing I always do is remove the labels to I can check the water levels. My charger is the MK 330D.

Listen to Catfan. These are not really maintenance free if you want longevity in a bass boat. They are wet batteries. However, when used in a typical commercial vehicle, they are only used for a short period of time, and then discarded and replaced. No need to check levels because they are not looking for long term use. So, for those users, they don't bother checking levels and can be "maintenance free" for them. Also, as mentioned, faster recharging of at least 10 amps will increase battery life. 15 amps is even better.

Not sure about the specific difference between the D series and PC series from MK, but I believe the PC series is a little better, and a little beefier. I do know that the PC series qualifies for proper charging of an Odyssey battery, where the D series does not.

[Jboutfishn]

Have been running the MK318PC for 6 years now with zero issues. It is plugged in 24/7 when not on the water. If you watch indicator lights it will tell you of a battery failure before it leaves you with a dead/dying trolling motor.

[DQM]

The only real difference between the D and PC chargers is that on the PC chargers you can select battery type by bank, so that each bank can be optimized for charging a specific battery type.

On the D models, you cannot select battery type at all.

Some other small differences, but that’s the big one.

The PC chargers are generallly smaller in size and a bit lighter too from my experience.

I have a 345PC and it has been trouble free. I would recommend it to anyone.

[BoilermakerRT178]

Great thread thank you. Lots of good helpful info. I now have a MK 345PC and I leave it plugged in 24/7. Wondered if that was standard practice and it would like many of you do that.

Lost two batteries by charging occasionally through the winter. To be fair it was a different boat and charger but once I kept it plugged in all the time issues went away.

[DQM]

I leave mine plugged in 24/7 when on the trailer including all winter in storage.

[Delta Bass Fool]

No need to isolate batteries especially when connected to parallel or in series. The charger will charge them.

Thinking back to why I would prefer to kill all the power on the boat while charging brings up the following reasons for my peace of mind. I want the new charger to be less prone to a failure from any electrical problems that may arise in the future. Not likely to happen where I live but critters can always come aboard unexpectingly and chew on live wires and cause shorts or even worse a fire. If there is any problem like that I would rather find out when at the boat rather than have a boat with problems cause a fire in my garage.

There has to be a good reason for the perko type kill switches I am looking at. Any one have one or more of these wired to there batteries? This is the type I am looking at and so far I am undecided on any specific model. https://www.amazon.com/Perko-8504DP-...1GK2NBTRS52N32

Here is the type of fus block I am considering. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

[Delta Bass Fool]

Great thread thank you. Lots of good helpful info. I now have a MK 345PC and I leave it plugged in 24/7. Wondered if that was standard practice and it would like many of you do that.

Lost two batteries by charging occasionally through the winter. To be fair it was a different boat and charger but once I kept it plugged in all the time issues went away.

Yes I have to agree, this BBC forum delivers and all the advice given in this thread is very much appreciated. There are a few forums I visit where the members are very active and helpful and this is one of them.

Thank you to every one for contributing to this thread. After learning a bit more about battery charging from this thread I have started leaning more towards the charger you mentioned Boilermaker. The added 5 amps is only about $50 to $60 more for this model. It is starting to make more sense to get this MK 345 PC model. Being lighter and in the back of the boat is a plus. My only concern is with it being lighter has me wondering if it is of cheaper quality for a higher premium or if they used less potting to reduce weight.

My old charger “Guest Pro Charge” is a big heavy brick. I had considered trying to repair it but getting the guts out of the potting would be the biggest challenge. I vaguely remember reading about a guy that used some kind of chemical solution to dissolve the potting material from a voltage regulator that is used in an older late 60’s to early 70’s John Derre garden tractor. Now I have to see if I can dig that info up. Would be cool if I could salvage this charger but I have my doubts.

[FrancoCialone]

I have the MK315D (3 X 5 amps) and have had no problems for 7 years. My batteries (group 27s) are fully charged in 3-6 hours. Charger was in boat for 6 years and now is mounted on a portable plywood board because needed room in battery compartment (very tight) for a bigger starter battery. My original batteries (deka) lasted 6 years before one of the tm batteries died, so replaced all of them. I don't leave charger plugged in 24/7, just long enough to see solid green lights and during winter once a month. I check water levels once a month as well. I guess the charger will last even longer not bouncing around the lake !

[Delta Bass Fool]

6 years is pretty good for battery life Franco and 3 to 6 hour recharge time is respectable as well. On average how low do your batteries drain when you use them fishing?

I am thinking of mounting the new charger when I get it in one of the front compartments or under the helm to transfer some of the weight towards the front of the boat. Considered transferring a battery or two as well but not much room for that and they would end up moving up and down more as they get closer towards the front so I scratched that idea. I may scratch the moving the charger up front as well if it needs to be located in the bildge / battery compartment for accurate temperature monitoring.

[Nightmare]

I am thinking of mounting the new charger when I get it in one of the front compartments or under the helm

Keep in mind a couple concerns.

The bilge area is most often the largest area compartment and can dissipate more heat. I normally block my lid open at least an inch for both heat and hydrogen gas dispersion - wide open if I can.

Most charger manufacturers either have guidelines for extending lines or extension kits that comply with their guidelines. Keep in mind that the longer you make the wiring run, at some point, the gauge of wire needs to be heavier to carry the same load - especially at the charger end (which you can't make heavier).

[BoilermakerRT178]

Yes I have to agree, this BBC forum delivers and all the advice given in this thread is very much appreciated. There are a few forums I visit where the members are very active and helpful and this is one of them.

Thank you to every one for contributing to this thread. After learning a bit more about battery charging from this thread I have started leaning more towards the charger you mentioned Boilermaker. The added 5 amps is only about $50 to $60 more for this model. It is starting to make more sense to get this MK 345 PC model. Being lighter and in the back of the boat is a plus. My only concern is with it being lighter has me wondering if it is of cheaper quality for a higher premium or if they used less potting to reduce weight.

My old charger “Guest Pro Charge” is a big heavy brick. I had considered trying to repair it but getting the guts out of the potting would be the biggest challenge. I vaguely remember reading about a guy that used some kind of chemical solution to dissolve the potting material from a voltage regulator that is used in an older late 60’s to early 70’s John Derre garden tractor. Now I have to see if I can dig that info up. Would be cool if I could salvage this charger but I have my doubts.

This 345PC charger can be found new for under $330. It seems to get some reliable reviews w little hassle. Given a $100-$150 wet cell battery can be fried overnight if something goes wrong...I'd just buy a new one and call it a day. Also not sure what year your old charger is and what capability it has to be able to deliver a float or maintenance charge like the new ones do. Seems like an easy call to me but everyone is different and is in a different situation. Good luck.

EDIT: Just checked...You are in luck! Minn Kota is running a $50 rebate if purchased before May 31. Makes it $280.

And no I dont work for MK/Johnson Outdoors

[Delta Bass Fool]

I found a mk345pc for less than $311.00 on Ebay. I'm just not sure if Johnson outdoors will honor the rebate if purchasing a new charger on ebay.

I would sell the older charger with the boat if the time comes for me to upgrade my boat.

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[coachallen]

Genuis Battery chargers. I have them for 7 years and still going strong. I also rin 3 AGM batteries from Sears and they charge them fine. I had to go with 2 two bank chargers because of space. https://no.co/

[Cgs1967!]

It’s not really maintenance free. The plates are alloyed with calcium which reduces water loss during charging, but may not eliminate adding water. Big downside is that alloying with calcium reduces cycle life when you run the battery down between charges.

Actually, calcium is only used as a hardening agent in the plates. Lead is very soft so battery manufacturers use calcium as a hardening agent as mention. There are many hardening agents used. Selenium is another. Cycling capability comes from the plate design. A tubular plate has more surface volume and the plates are usually thicker than flat plate technology. Flat plates work well in a starting application. Tubular plates also do better in a heat environment. For every 10 degrees constant increase in temperature the battery life is cut in half. There is design life and real world application and they are two seperate things.

[CatFan]

Actually, calcium is only used as a hardening agent in the plates. Lead is very soft so battery manufacturers use calcium as a hardening agent as mention. There are many hardening agents used. Selenium is another. Cycling capability comes from the plate design. A tubular plate has more surface volume and the plates are usually thicker than flat plate technology. Flat plates work well in a starting application. Tubular plates also do better in a heat environment. For every 10 degrees constant increase in temperature the battery life is cut in half. There is design life and real world application and they are two seperate things.

No. Though it does harden the plate, calcium is used primarily because it reduces gassing in the battery. Cycling capability is directly related to plate composition and thickness, not shape. Calcium reduces self discharge, reduces cycle life and makes the battery more prone to damage from overcharging. Adding tin to a lead-calcium plate gives back some of the cycle life. Antimony increases gassing over calcium, but doesn’t suffer from the cycle life hit that lead-calcium does.

I can’t imagine how you could make a practical battery with a tubular plate. There is certainly nothing on the market with such a thing. The closest are the spiral cell batteries which have very thin plates that are essentially rolled up flat plates. This makes them very rugged, but they suffer from inefficient use of space so the batteries aren’t very practical in deep-cycle applications.

[menoceros]

be careful and read the specs closely on all multi bank chargers. some makers label them 3 bank 15 amp and when you look closely you see that they are saying a total of 15 amps or 5 amps per bank others say 15 amp three bank and mean up to 15 amps per bank for a total of 45 amps the best are the models that share the total output and each can use up to the max depending upon the battery its connected to so as your starting battery gets fully charged the other two banks can use more amps to charge your trolling batteries Also charging batteries with a low amp rate when they are discharged is not good for the batteries a good rate of charge is best when the batteries have been pulled down and they should be recharged as soon as possible after fishing low amps are only good for a maintenance charge for fully charged batteries I would not buy a charger with less than 10 amps per bank

[Delta Bass Fool]

Keep in mind a couple concerns.

The bilge area is most often the largest area compartment and can dissipate more heat. I normally block my lid open at least an inch for both heat and hydrogen gas dispersion - wide open if I can.

Most charger manufacturers either have guidelines for extending lines or extension kits that comply with their guidelines. Keep in mind that the longer you make the wiring run, at some point, the gauge of wire needs to be heavier to carry the same load - especially at the charger end (which you can't make heavier).

Thank you again, I had not considered the length of the run from the front to the rear or heat dissipation for the charger.

EDIT: I just pulled the trigger on the MK 345 PC on ebay with 6 months interest free financing for $310.46 shipped. Minn Kota told me through chat they would honor the rebate. I'll see how it goes. :)

[haus9393]

Smart choice. Currently I’ve been dealing with a 10A per bank charger and wish I had ordered 15 per bank when I purchased my boat. It has led to many bad days on the water due to batteries not fully charging over night, mainly my cranking battery. I’ve done a ton of research lately on chargers/ batteries and how to calculate how much power you will use during a day and recharge times. I’ve leaned how much of an advantage lithium batteries are vs agm and lead acid. I just purchased a 2 bank dual pro professional with 15amps per bank dedicated for my cranking batteries. I went to 2 agm 31s this year with a northstar 2150 mca 103AH and 220 RC and a Duracell 31 agm with 1000mca 105AH and 210 RC in parallel. Yesterday I fished 11 hours and left all my graphs on all day long. I ran for maybe 1 hour combined so not a lot of recharge from the motor. At the end of the day I was reading 12.36 V on my cranking setup which is supposed to be 50-70% discharged according to charts I’ve seen , probably closer to 50%. Last year with just the northstar agm I would have been completely dead which happened a lot. Currently until the end of the week when my new charger comes in I am charging my 3 trolling batteries in their own bank (10amps each) and both cranking are being charged off 1 10amp bank. I have a dual pro sportsman 4X10 onboard. It took 12 hours to fully charge my cranking batteries. Basically each battery was getting 5amps.

I read a good way to tell how long it will take to charge a battery is look at your AH rating on the battery and divide that number by the number of amps you are charging with, that value will be the amount of time it takes to charge your battery in hours. So 103Ah battery like my northstar on a 10 amp charger will take about 10.3 hours to fully charge from dead and my Duracell will take 10.5 hours. If you fish for a half day on average and immediately plug your boat in you should be fine, but if you are a full day guy multiple days in a row it won’t work out for you well. Bump your charger up to a 15 amp charger and now in 6 hours you will be fully charged.

It took my 10 amp charger 12 hours to charge 2 agm batteries at 50-70% health. Which makes since because I have 208 AH combined with my 2 batteries which at 10 amps would take about 20.8 hours to charge from dead. If they were really around 50% dead then it should take 10-11 hours which it was pretty close to that. It’s not an exact science and usually you need to add 10% which would be an extra hour of so if time for the battery to “top off”. Next weekend when I have 2 15amp banks that charge time should be cut into 4 hours since I’ve tripled my output amps.

My trolling motor batteries are always usually fully charged within 4-6 hours on the 10 amps so I will continue to use my original charger on them.

Im not 100% on how dangerous charging with 20amps can be since I’ve seen going over 20 seems to create a lot more heat and it’s considered a “fast charge” and anything less than 10 amps is considered a “slow charge”. Over time a fast charge is not recommeneded but I haven’t done much research to see why other than potential damage due to heat. 15amps seems to be an all around good number for us bass guys that usually need 5-8 hours to recharge before the next day. Hopefully this helps someone looking into buying batteries or chargers.

[Cgs1967!]

No. Though it does harden the plate, calcium is used primarily because it reduces gassing in the battery. Cycling capability is directly related to plate composition and thickness, not shape. Calcium reduces self discharge, reduces cycle life and makes the battery more prone to damage from overcharging. Adding tin to a lead-calcium plate gives back some of the cycle life. Antimony increases gassing over calcium, but doesn’t suffer from the cycle life hit that lead-calcium does.

I can’t imagine how you could make a practical battery with a tubular plate. There is certainly nothing on the market with such a thing. The closest are the spiral cell batteries which have very thin plates that are essentially rolled up flat plates. This makes them very rugged, but they suffer from inefficient use of space so the batteries aren’t very practical in deep-cycle applications.

I agree with most of what you said. I did not mean that the shape of the plates gives you more cycling. I meant that through certain plate designs the plates are made thicker and therefore allow for more cycling. As far a watering is concerned a low antimony (less than 3%) selenium battery will require approximately 1/3 less watering early on than a calcium. As the battery ages it will eventually require more watering and may use as much or more than the calcium. Calcium batteries do not self discharge as quickly as a lead selenium but calcium takes longer to recharge. I do believe that for a boat application and money aside that a gelled electrolyte or agm absorb glass mat are the better option.