Wacky / Neko Hooks

[DrewFlu33]

I know we've hashed this out multiple times over the years, but I'm noticing a lot of new stuff hitting the market. Seems like a good time to revisit!

After perusing a bunch of tackle sales sites over the last month or so, a common theme that I'm seeing is other hook manufacturers jumping onto the straight shank bandwagon that the VMC Neko hook started (at least to my knowledge - I know the Gamy B10S Stinger has been out much longer but has never been marketed that way). Probably a good idea as that VMC has been massively popular. Mustad, Owner, and Eagle Claw (Trokar) at least have rolled out similar offerings.

I'm also seeing a similar push with the Kahle style or "shiner" hooks I had previously only seen from Gamakatsu; I'm not sure if other companies had them all along and are only now marketing them this way, or whether I just overlooked this style previously. Just going down the list at Tackle Warehouse I see that Berkley (Fusion), Falcon Lures, Gamakatsu (obviously), Hayabusa, Moto, Mustad, OMTD, Owner, and Zappu all offer hooks that basically fit into that category.

Of course there is always the standard wide gap "octopus" style that has long been the standard for drop shotting and wacky rigging.

I became completely sold on the straight shank variety last year with the VMC Neko. After losing some fish on the classic style last year, I'm even thinking about going toward straight shanks on my drop shots full time this season if I find it doesn't lead to fewer bites. Though I'm sure it probably happened, I can't recall losing a single fish on the VMC Neko last year.

One really big key to those straight shank hooks working so well, in my mind at least, is having that point offset. Even though I shouldn't be trying to fix it if it ain't broke, I'll still likely be trying out the Owner version this upcoming season; I know for a fact that it has the offset point from a video Cody Meyer did introducing it, and when they mention the "silky gray" finish I have to believe it's Owner's Zo-Wire which I know produces an amazingly sharp, high quality hook. With the others (aside from the Gamy B10s which I believe does have it, but isn't available in a weedless version), it isn't clear to me whether the offset point is there or not, and though I'd sort of have to believe it is, I'm not willing to order them and risk it.

I could never mentally get on board with the Kahle-style. This is mostly because that point is aimed right back at the shank and I feel like it would have to result in missed fish or require a circle hook type "hookset" which is something I don't want to have to think about. This style was designed for live bait fishing anyhow, right? Might just be in my head. Anybody using that style with success? Hayabusa's flick shake style head, the "Little Shaker," piqued my interest due to what looks like a really weedless design but the hook style still scares me.

More generally, what's everyone doing for their wacky hooks nowadays? Anybody had their hands on any of the newer stuff out there that can comment on it?

[swampshark]

went through alot of different brands...living in south louisiana we really can't use anything that is not weedless....no open water clear lakes here...settled on Tsuyoi weedless 4/0 and 5/0...offset design and will flat stick anything that bites it....alot of the other weedless brands were just to flimsy...straightened them out on hook set

[School Master]

All I fish is smallmouth. On top of that, the meanest of all smallmouth, Great Lakes smallmouth. The last 2 years the Neko Rig has been UNREAL in hooking percentage to land ratio.

I throw a ton of tubes and often that's by far and away the best thing to throw. When I throw 1/2, 3/4 and even 1oz baits when they are super deep, it makes for a excellent recipe for them to jump and throw that giant piece of lead back at you. You simply don't have this issue with a Neko rig. Now you can't (at least me, I'm too impatient) throw a 1/32 Neko Weight in 45' with 2' waves, so it does have it's limits with me. When I can throw it though, I do because I know they are coming in the boat.

I too have tried all the hooks out there. This is coming from a die hard Gamakatsu fan boy, I can't find one that beats the VMC. Sure some of them are probably as good, but price, quality, performance you can't beat the VMC Neko hook.

I went to silicone clear rings and fancy pliers late last year over o-rings. I throw a hand poured senko style worm and tungsten nail weights. Straight 6lb fluoro on a 7'6" rod. All centered around ultra clear water and big smallies. LOVE me some Neko Rig.

[M1RT]

Not a fan of VMC hooks but their Neko hook is legit. It's sharp and holds them well. It works well on a wacky rig, drop shot, and Neko.

[DrewFlu33]

I'm am in the same boat as you with the silicone tubing and rigging tool, School Master. I used to be a big heat shrink fan and thought the silicone was a gimmick, but it's definitely a difference maker. I actually sort of accidentally started a little business venture that began with trying to avoid paying the crazy costs for the "name brand" stuff. I was trying to source the tools and tubing initially just to save money. The tubing ended up being very, very hard to find and get right, and long story short, I am about to pull the trigger on being a BBC sponsor with kits at a pretty substantial savings over what's out there now. I'll make a post talking about it when I get that ironed out.

I'm really hoping heavier tungsten nail weights make it to market at some point as I totally agree on it being limited for deeper water. Biggest I've found at prices I'm willing to pay are 7/64 which makes it at least palatable to throw in water up to about 15 feet with reasonable wind.


I am with you guys completely on VMC. I generally really don't like their hooks at all for various reasons, but those Neko hooks are the real deal. Maybe I should just keep going with them and not even mess around with the Owners...

I'm also glad to hear that you've had luck with them on the dropshot M1RT...that sort of reinforces my decision to give them a try this year. Are you using the smallest size for drop shotting, or just going with whatever you'd use on a normal wacky or Neko? Suppose that could be the same as well - I tend to like the size 1 or 1/0 for wacky and Neko rigging.

[M1RT]

I use size 1 for most of my uses. I will upsize to the 1/0 when Neko rigging a "magnum" size worm. I'd probably use a size 2 on the drop shot, but I don't feel like adding even more hooks to my collection.

[basscat tyler]

Drew, I’ve been so happy with the B10s that I haven’t strayed from it other than buying the VMC weedless Neko hooks. Honestly if I wanted to take the time to learn how to tie my own weed guards I’d spit for those also. I for one actually like VMC hooks other than their trebles. I think you are right about having the offset and the O’Shaunessy bend definitely helps keeping them hooked up

[Jfish]

Good information here, thanks for sharing. There's a guy on youtube who did a review of 13 wacky hooks which I thought was pretty good.

[Real Pudd legend]

B10s Gamakatsu is money and cheap , 25 for $10 and it’s in bass pros fly section.

[DrewFlu33]

I can tie flies...I should look into adding a heavy fluoro weedguard to the B10S. I'm a Gamakatsu fanboy anyhow, and I know the B10S is a great hook in general. I used to use the hell out of them tying flies when I took my extended hiatus from bass fishing, but never used them in an actual normal bass fishing application before.

Awesome insight all around! Keep it coming!

Also would love to hear thoughts about other hook styles or experience using other brands of the same styles...I'm especially wondering about what people like for wacky jigheads. That Hayabusa is such a cool design, but that hook style looks like a nightmare.

[basscat tyler]

Drew I can’t remember if it was Aaron Martens or Brent Ehrler but one of them had a video tying a weedguard with #100 fluorocarbon I think. The B10s is one of the best hooks I’ve ever bought for anything period. It’s extremely rare for me to miss or lose a fish on that hook. And they’re cheap ha

[eyra_kid]

Drew,
Some good info here. You convinced me, and I picked up a couple packs of #1 VMC Neko hooks yesterday. Got some of the new Z-Man BangstickZ coming, so these should be perfect.

I've mentioned this on other pages here, but my absolute favorite wacky jig isn't even designed as a wacky jig. It's the 1/8 oz Stupid Tubehead by sponsor ACT lures.
https://shop.actlures.com/Stupid-Tub...-Tubeheads.htm

I don't even remember why I tried one this way. Probably had a tube tied on, ripped it off and added a stickbait in a hurry. It's funny you mention a Kahle hook, because that's what these remind me of. Now, I am not usually a fan of any type of EWG hook. I only use them when I have to, as I miss more fish with them. These ACT jigs flat stick em when wacky-rigging though. Note, I did try his finesse stupid tubehead as a wacky jig, which has a more traditional EWG. I wasn't as happy with the hookups on those.

[DrewFlu33]

I remember you mentioning that, eyra_kid, and still haven't tried it for whatever reason. I suppose the size of the hook has me a little scared that it will affect action dramatically over a smaller wacky jighead, but I think that may also be yet another instance of my giving the fish way too much credit.


On a different note that's related to this thread: Gamakatsu has just introduced two new hooks that fit into what we're talking about here. First is a new version of the B10S now made with their "Tournament Grade Wire" (TGW) with the "Nano Smoothcoat." This is the wire they've been using on their G-Finesse hooks that looks like chintzy old tin hooks, but that is crazy sharp and stronger than standard wire for a given diameter. Compare it to Owner's Zo-Wire. Not surprisingly with the success VMC is having, they've also introduced the G-Finesse Stinger as a hook specifically targeted towards Neko fishing. After comparing them, I had to call Gamakatsu to ask them what was going on. See for yourself why I felt so compelled....

The new B10S: https://www.gamakatsu.com/product/b10s-stinger/
The G-Finesse Stinger: https://www.gamakatsu.com/product/g-finesse-stinger/

If you flip back and forth between them you'll likely notice several things, but two things really jumped out at me. The first is that the photo they're using is exactly the same for both of them. The second is that the new B10S is a little over $0.50 a hook in sizes bass anglers would use, while the G-Finesse Stinger is $0.85 a hook.

The fellow I spoke to was a super nice guy and is clearly really experienced. Even so, he paused a bit when he saw where I was going with the call. After a little bit of "yeah, that's a really good question..." he explained that the B10S is targeted toward fly tying, while Brent Ehrler specifically designed the G-Finesse Stinger for Neko rigging. The conversation was really interesting as he told me about his conversations with Brent about how well the hook worked and all of those things, and since Brent is one of my favorite anglers I was happy to listen. When I pressed a little more, he admitted that the only difference is that the bend on the G-Finesse is opened very slightly from that on the B10S (and to be perfectly honest, that felt like a little bit of a BS story to me, especially since the photos of the hooks are identical - I think you'd be able to see a difference if the gap was opened up more on one than the other).

You are free to use that however you'd like, but that was good enough for me to decide that I'd rather save almost 40% and buy the one that is targeted toward fly tyers. Hopefully no one tells the fish the hooks I'll be using are supposed to be made into flies...

Now just the wait for them to start hitting retailers, or you can buy them direct from Gamakatsu. If you don't buy the hype on the TGW or don't really care, the old style B10S is still everywhere for cheap. Size 1 on Amazon with Prime is $6.46 for a pack of 25 as of this moment.

[BassVoodoo]

All I fish is smallmouth. On top of that, the meanest of all smallmouth, Great Lakes smallmouth. The last 2 years the Neko Rig has been UNREAL in hooking percentage to land ratio.

I throw a ton of tubes and often that's by far and away the best thing to throw. When I throw 1/2, 3/4 and even 1oz baits when they are super deep, it makes for a excellent recipe for them to jump and throw that giant piece of lead back at you. You simply don't have this issue with a Neko rig. Now you can't (at least me, I'm too impatient) throw a 1/32 Neko Weight in 45' with 2' waves, so it does have it's limits with me. When I can throw it though, I do because I know they are coming in the boat.

I too have tried all the hooks out there. This is coming from a die hard Gamakatsu fan boy, I can't find one that beats the VMC. Sure some of them are probably as good, but price, quality, performance you can't beat the VMC Neko hook.

I went to silicone clear rings and fancy pliers late last year over o-rings. I throw a hand poured senko style worm and tungsten nail weights. Straight 6lb fluoro on a 7'6" rod. All centered around ultra clear water and big smallies. LOVE me some Neko Rig.

I don't believe you...you can't catch smallmouth.

[eyra_kid]

I remember you mentioning that, eyra_kid, and still haven't tried it for whatever reason. I suppose the size of the hook has me a little scared that it will affect action dramatically over a smaller wacky jighead, but I think that may also be yet another instance of my giving the fish way too much credit.


On a different note that's related to this thread: Gamakatsu has just introduced two new hooks that fit into what we're talking about here. First is a new version of the B10S now made with their "Tournament Grade Wire" (TGW) with the "Nano Smoothcoat." This is the wire they've been using on their G-Finesse hooks that looks like chintzy old tin hooks, but that is crazy sharp and stronger than standard wire for a given diameter. Compare it to Owner's Zo-Wire. Not surprisingly with the success VMC is having, they've also introduced the G-Finesse Stinger as a hook specifically targeted towards Neko fishing. After comparing them, I had to call Gamakatsu to ask them what was going on. See for yourself why I felt so compelled....

The new B10S: https://www.gamakatsu.com/product/b10s-stinger/
The G-Finesse Stinger: https://www.gamakatsu.com/product/g-finesse-stinger/

If you flip back and forth between them you'll likely notice several things, but two things really jumped out at me. The first is that the photo they're using is exactly the same for both of them. The second is that the new B10S is a little over $0.50 a hook in sizes bass anglers would use, while the G-Finesse Stinger is $0.85 a hook.

The fellow I spoke to was a super nice guy and is clearly really experienced. Even so, he paused a bit when he saw where I was going with the call. After a little bit of "yeah, that's a really good question..." he explained that the B10S is targeted toward fly tying, while Brent Ehrler specifically designed the G-Finesse Stinger for Neko rigging. The conversation was really interesting as he told me about his conversations with Brent about how well the hook worked and all of those things, and since Brent is one of my favorite anglers I was happy to listen. When I pressed a little more, he admitted that the only difference is that the bend on the G-Finesse is opened very slightly from that on the B10S (and to be perfectly honest, that felt like a little bit of a BS story to me, especially since the photos of the hooks are identical - I think you'd be able to see a difference if the gap was opened up more on one than the other).

You are free to use that however you'd like, but that was good enough for me to decide that I'd rather save almost 40% and buy the one that is targeted toward fly tyers. Hopefully no one tells the fish the hooks I'll be using are supposed to be made into flies...

Now just the wait for them to start hitting retailers, or you can buy them direct from Gamakatsu. If you don't buy the hype on the TGW or don't really care, the old style B10S is still everywhere for cheap. Size 1 on Amazon with Prime is $6.46 for a pack of 25 as of this moment.

I haven't noticed any downsides to the action using that bit larger hook. Guess it depends on how you're working it. I tend to impart a fair amount of twitches and action on my wacky jigs. If a guy is strictly going for a cast and let it fall, I could see the hook being more visible, but I don't see it affecting action one way or the other. I could be wrong though!

Good catch on the Gamakatsu hooks. I think at my skill level, the fly hook would work just fine in my book! :)

[ReefOctopus]

I use the VMC neko for larger neko worms/baits and will you the gama g finnesse drop shot hook for smaller baits. That hook is fantastic for anything under 4 inches.

[slipknobber bot]

VMC neko in size 1 and 2 is all i use for wacky and neko rigs. I won't use any other VMC hook, but that thing is the deal. Curious to try owner's sniper hook when it comes out this summer.

[Walkabout7781]

I remember you mentioning that, eyra_kid, and still haven't tried it for whatever reason. I suppose the size of the hook has me a little scared that it will affect action dramatically over a smaller wacky jighead, but I think that may also be yet another instance of my giving the fish way too much credit.


On a different note that's related to this thread: Gamakatsu has just introduced two new hooks that fit into what we're talking about here. First is a new version of the B10S now made with their "Tournament Grade Wire" (TGW) with the "Nano Smoothcoat." This is the wire they've been using on their G-Finesse hooks that looks like chintzy old tin hooks, but that is crazy sharp and stronger than standard wire for a given diameter. Compare it to Owner's Zo-Wire. Not surprisingly with the success VMC is having, they've also introduced the G-Finesse Stinger as a hook specifically targeted towards Neko fishing. After comparing them, I had to call Gamakatsu to ask them what was going on. See for yourself why I felt so compelled....

The new B10S: https://www.gamakatsu.com/product/b10s-stinger/
The G-Finesse Stinger: https://www.gamakatsu.com/product/g-finesse-stinger/

If you flip back and forth between them you'll likely notice several things, but two things really jumped out at me. The first is that the photo they're using is exactly the same for both of them. The second is that the new B10S is a little over $0.50 a hook in sizes bass anglers would use, while the G-Finesse Stinger is $0.85 a hook.

The fellow I spoke to was a super nice guy and is clearly really experienced. Even so, he paused a bit when he saw where I was going with the call. After a little bit of "yeah, that's a really good question..." he explained that the B10S is targeted toward fly tying, while Brent Ehrler specifically designed the G-Finesse Stinger for Neko rigging. The conversation was really interesting as he told me about his conversations with Brent about how well the hook worked and all of those things, and since Brent is one of my favorite anglers I was happy to listen. When I pressed a little more, he admitted that the only difference is that the bend on the G-Finesse is opened very slightly from that on the B10S (and to be perfectly honest, that felt like a little bit of a BS story to me, especially since the photos of the hooks are identical - I think you'd be able to see a difference if the gap was opened up more on one than the other).

You are free to use that however you'd like, but that was good enough for me to decide that I'd rather save almost 40% and buy the one that is targeted toward fly tyers. Hopefully no one tells the fish the hooks I'll be using are supposed to be made into flies...

Now just the wait for them to start hitting retailers, or you can buy them direct from Gamakatsu. If you don't buy the hype on the TGW or don't really care, the old style B10S is still everywhere for cheap. Size 1 on Amazon with Prime is $6.46 for a pack of 25 as of this moment.

If you right-click on both pictures and then "save as", the title is the same, so same picture is being used. They may have botched it when posting the pictures to their website, or maybe it is the same exact hook in a different package. I am almost shocked to find out that I'm NOT the only one that calculates the price per hook and per soft plastic bait. Wonder about the sanity and funding of some folks....

[School Master]

My plans this weekend say otherwise Mr. VooDoo

[Dennis S.]

You can make your own weedguards on your favorite hooks.