High End vs Low End test

[willwork4fish]

I had a bunch of NFC stuff finally come in after 3+ months and now the blanks are basically just stock sitting in my shop since I had to switch gears and order some different blanks from other manufacturers to meet some build timelines. I've got a MB704HM and a MB704Delta in among that stuff. I'm going to build them with identical components except for the guides. Going to put Torzites on the HM and Alconites on the Delta. Then I'm going to have 8 or 10 different guys use them for a couple of trips each and then get their impressions. I'll be able to put them in the hands of novice nonboaters, local guides, some good local tournament sticks and hopefully even a local high level pro.

I'm just going to build them plain and leave off the label for now so it'll pretty much just be a blind taste test.

The cost difference is obviously significant, the retail on the HM parts comes out to $351 and the Delta is $145.

I honestly don't think they're going to be able to tell the difference.

I guess I must be bored.

[willwork4fish]

One thing, the HM had a jacked up tip, like if I had to guess the last 1/2" was off 2 deg...I should have taken a picture...so I cut 1/2" off of both.

[D.O.C. 989]

A good cross section of fishermen. Results will be interesting.

[basscatcher89]

I'll be interested to hear. My NFC is still on the rack can't decide what I want to do with it yet.

[Jfish]

Interesting, definitely let us know the results.

[willwork4fish]

I'll keep updating this as I go for whoever is interested. I've got the handles done (cork with Weibe reel seats) and am waiting on the guides. I've got my first tester lined up first weekend in April during our first club tournament.

[willwork4fish]

NFCs.jpg

[DrewFlu33]

I'm really looking forward to hearing what you find out. Neat test!!!

[Les Young]

I'm really looking forward to hearing what you find out. Neat test!!!

Me too. I'd bet if they were identical very few would be able to tell the difference. Good idea to do this.

[willwork4fish]

Put the Torzite guides on the HM last night. Torzite is definitely lighter than Alconite but realistically I don't think enough that will be noticed. A size 7 TKWTG double foot, a 6 TKBTG, a 5.5 TKBTG and seven 5.5 TKTTG's weighs 1.2g...the comparable Alconites weighed 1.8g.

I forgot to order a Torzite tip so I won't be able to finish it until that comes in.

[Bassbme]

Will, as far as the Torzites versus the Alconite and how the IDs of the rings compare .... would you say the #5 Torzite would be more comparable to a #6 Alconite? I'm just curious how much bigger their ID is comparatively speaking. And you got me in the mood to weigh things lol I'm using Fuji T2 titanium guides on the 2 NFC X ray blanks I'm building on right now. They have the slim SIC rings. Same guide train for both rods.

1 size 10 T2KW, 1 size 8 T2KW, 1 size 6 T2KW, 2 size 5 T2KBs, 6 size 5 T2KT, and 1 T2KG tip top #5 ring - 4.5 tube = 2g.

I also weighed one of the rods they'll be going on. It's an NFC X ray MB736 blank that I have the rear grip and reel seat on, but nothing else. A 10" CFX grip, EVA butt cap, 2 Alps trim rings, one between the butt cap and the grip and one between the grip and the reel seat. The reel seat is a 13 mm MVT with the thread barrel trimmed so the hood nut is flush with the end of the thread barrel when the reel is installed. I didn't use the locking nut that comes with it. The end of the thread barrel is finished off with a 3/8" thick piece of EVA that is turned down to match the diameter of the thread barrel. When I take off or put on the reel, the nut of the hood passes over the EVA nub. 3.4 oz thus far.

It will be interesting to see how much the finished rod will be. If I were to guess I'd go somewhere in the 3.7 - 3.8 oz range. I may have to add a little weight in the butt to get the degree of balance I like. They're going to be bottom contact rods, and I like that type of rod to balance tip light.

[willwork4fish]

Bassbme, yes the torzite ID is closer to a full mm larger than an Alconite. I thought about going with 4.5's or 5's on the Torzites and then my standard 5.5's in Alconite for the runners but I'm trying to keep the aesthetics of the rods the same and the smaller Torzites would have a little lower profile and then maybe slightly affect my guide spacing. If money weren't an option I'd probably have gotten some sets of smaller Torzites and played around. I was able to find a nice spacing recipe that will work for both sets of guides. Other than the finish of the blank and the ID of the guides (which isn't super noticeable) the rods are going to appear identical.

You should try a 7 or an 8 for your stripper and then just step down to a 6 and then your 5 runners (I like the 5.5's because I think a leader knot passes better). I've found the 7 double foot gives you plenty of height for a stripper and is a little lighter.

I weigh pretty much everything. I kind of wish I would have kept a log of blank and guide set weights and all of my pre and post finishing weights. I may start doing that.

The Xray and Delta blanks have the same finish with those little ridges. Honestly from looking at them you can't tell them apart. Maybe I'll get an Xray and do the same thing but based on delivery that wouldn't happen till the fall lol.

[Bassbme]

willwork4fish, in the past I've mocked up my casting rods using an 8 LN as the butt guide, but most of my reels are older Curado B's and Ds which are a little taller at the line guide than the newer Curado Is and Ks that I am replacing them with. I just liked the line path to the stripper a little better with a #10 with the older reels. I know a 3 double foot reduction guide is pretty old school these days, but in my mind even though they weigh a little more than the type of guide train you're using on the builds you're doing, the 3 double foots carry a little more height down the blank. My thinking is it saves me at least 1 runner, and maybe 2.

That and I'm still kind of old school in that a 3 guide reduction train just looks right.

As far as my X rays, I sanded them. I just couldn't get used to the feel.

[willwork4fish]

willwork4fish, in the past I've mocked up my casting rods using an 8 LN as the butt guide, but most of my reels are older Curado B's and Ds which are a little taller at the line guide than the newer Curado Is and Ks that I am replacing them with. I just liked the line path to the stripper a little better with a #10 with the older reels. I know a 3 double foot reduction guide is pretty old school these days, but in my mind even though they weigh a little more than the type of guide train you're using on the builds you're doing, the 3 double foots carry a little more height down the blank. My thinking is it saves me at least 1 runner, and maybe 2.

That and I'm still kind of old school in that a 3 guide reduction train just looks right.

As far as my X rays, I sanded them. I just couldn't get used to the feel.

Gotcha, everybody has their ways that work for them. With these two for me, it's a departure from how I normally wrap since the majority of my rods are spiral. I built these conventional because I didn't want the "testers" to be using something radically different from what their used to.

[Bassbme]

Got my other X ray build done. Everything is identical to the one I outlined above except I went with a split rear grip using EVA foam on the latest one. I thought the split grip may be a little lighter. I thought wrong lol The rod with the full 10" CFX grip weighs 3.85 oz. The rod with the EVA split grip weighs 3.9 oz. I've used the foam core carbon fiber sleeved grips before so I knew they were super light weight. I just figured that with 4 1/2" less grip material, the EVA may have weighed a tad less.

Everything on the latest build is black. No trim bands on the guides ...... it's my Darth Vader rod lol I paired both rods with new Curado Ks and 15# Tatsu. The Force is powerful with these X ray blanks. Can't wait to fish the rods I built on them. They're some seriously wicked sticks.

[willwork4fish]

Finally got the rods finished. The Delta came in at 3.393 oz (blank was 1.922) and the HM at 3.312 oz (blank was 1.837). Somehow during the build I gained a little bit of weight (~0.02oz), probably some epoxy when I was doing the handles. Regardless, the two rods feel pretty much identical when you're holding them. Couple of weeks and we'll have our first test.

[hotrodelrod]

I recently received a HM764 and it had a jacked up tip too! very obvious

One thing, the HM had a jacked up tip, like if I had to guess the last 1/2" was off 2 deg...I should have taken a picture...so I cut 1/2" off of both.

[willwork4fish]

So finished with my first tester this weekend. My nonboater in my club tournament used both all weekend. He's a good stick, has gone back and forth being a boater and a non. Generally is pretty budget minded when it comes to his equipment, he had older Curados on both. Anyway, he was mainly throwing a 3/8 chatterbait on one and a squarebill on the other. We caught a lot of fish including a few over 3. His overall impressions were probably best summed up when he said "there's no discernible difference between the two". He said the casted the same and felt pretty much identical when fighting fish. He did say that he would rather fish with the HM but that was because he didn't care for the ridges on the Delta but other than that he really liked them both. He did comment on the sensitivity in that he could really feel the vibration very well on both of the rods, I don't know if that transfers very well to feel in terms of a texas rig or little jig...but that's not what the fish were on.

Overall I'm going to call this one a tie.

[denraytay]

Did he switch the baits back and forth between the rods to see if he could notice any difference that way?

[willwork4fish]

Did he switch the baits back and forth between the rods to see if he could notice any difference that way?

Yes, the first day. After that I think he had the chatterbait on the HM and the squarebill on the Delta.