1998 Evinrude 175 timing wheel removal?

[BigFishSteve]

This is an old thread. Brought it back up for my own review. Got a couple of issues still. Time to do some more digging.



Hello BBC. Enjoyed reading the boards for a long time. Registered to be able to ask this question. Lots of good info in here.

Engine is BE175GLECD 07/1997

Want to replace OIS sensor. New sensor and timing wheel on the way.

1.How do you remove the Timing Disk? It doesn't want to move and it is plastic.
2. If I commit to breaking the plastic away, can get a puller on it?
3. How can I identify engine harness connector B, terminal 1 to test Diode on Shift Interrupter? Port connector has no numbers. Starboard connector has letters.

Motor has been in the family since new. Compression is good. No spark to #4; and #6 sparks about half the time. #2 will miss a spark about 1 in 10-12 times. 1,3,5 are good. Moved coils around. Problem didnt move. Swapped #3 and #4 plug wire. No change. Borrowed a spare (supposedly good) powerpack and installed. Problem just as bad with a few miss beats on 1, 3, 5 side. Trouble shooting per OMC manual as much as I can. And everything I can test has been good/in spec. Including Stator ground condition and resistance readings. Motor starts and idles fine. Idles down from Quickstart in about 3 minutes.

Thank you,

Steve

[316jughead]

Welcome to the forum. You can soak the timing wheel at the crank over night and sometimes that helps. If you want to check if the shift switch is the problem just unplug it, the diode could be a problem but rare. You may have to follow color coding on the diode wire, it's in the back of the manual. The sensor is on all of the time and the timing wheel determines when to spark, so if you have spark on some cylinders the sensor is probably good. Timing wheel could have cracks. OK, sounds like a bad stator charge coil voltage, or maybe power pack voltage on one side. Follow the manual, you will need a peak reading volt meter or a good meter with a DVA adapter. Does the spark jump 7/16 with a good hot spark, probably not. Decreasing the gap to where you get spark, maybe you won't get spark, or off and on spark, will indicate low stator or power pack voltage. When you get your meter, or adapter, you can follow the manual and test the output voltages, for the power pack you will need a PL-88 adapter for this, I think the manual tells how to make one. Follow the manual step by step, don't bypass a step.

[BigFishSteve]

Thank you 316jughead. Here is what I have done so far.

When I said the “loaner” power pack was good, I should have specified that it is a shed stored spare from a friend of a friend that was “good when it came off another boat years ago”. Have no way to verify it’s condition.

Stator resistance test. Meter zeros at 0.31. Connected leads to yellow and Yellow grey. Still reads 0.31
Manual calls for 0.21 ohms. My digital meter must not have good enough resolution. Inconclusive.
Stator ground test. No conductivity from either stator lead to ground. Good.

Shift switch. 1 pin Amphenot connector open. Spark test?
Ohmmeter switch test. Meter to connecter and ground. High reading. Good
Push down on switch. Low reading. Good.

Diode test. Shift interrupter. Inconclusive. Recheck once I determine “terminal #1”
Checking what I consider #1 and #5 of this multi connector. One of them shows a diode present. The other shows no change. Further work to do.

Power coil test. Using DVA adapter and meter set to VDC.
Ground to orange and then orange/black stator leads. Zero volts on both. Indicating not grounded. Good.
Meter across orange and orange/black terminals. 51 volts. Good.
Ohnmeter across orange and orange/black 55 ohms. Good. Spec 55 +/- 10.

Timing sensor test. Can’t. Requires OMC Ignitiion Analyzer with A/B and Good/Bad output lights. Needed.

Charge Coil test. Digital meter, DVA adapter, VDC setting.
Black to ground. Check brown then brown/yellow. Both show ZERO. Good. Not grounded.
Repeat to brown/black then brown/white. Both Zero. Good. Not grounded.

Output test. Meter, DVA, VDC setting. Meter black to Brown terminal. Meter red to Brown/Yellow. 203 volts. Spec is 150 or highter.
Repeat across black and black/brown. 192v.
Ohmeter test. Across Brown and Brown/Yellow. 550. Spec is 550 +/- 55. Good.

Power pack test. Can’t. Requires Stevens PL-88 load adapter or 10 ohm, 10 watt resister. Pending.
Running Output test. Can’t. No Stevens TS-77 terminal extenders nor test tank.

New Timing disk, OIS sensor and power pack arriving today from Marine Engines. All OMC/BRP brand. I would have ordered an new Stator but only aftermarket available. Wish I was sure I could get old timing disk off with out days of fighting. Have been told by phone from a very knowledgable old gentlemen, that "Many times the thread sealer from bolt gets on collar and shaft making removal difficult. Heat may be required. I had to split one with a chisel once. Plus, it could be as simple as debris (thick spider web) under disk giving you fits"

I will be a captain for a high school team this saturday. Don't want to dissappoint the guys, so we will idle and/or trolling motor. If I tear up disk and can't replace, I'm down to trolling motor only.

Thanks for reading all that and for your insight.

Steve.

[316jughead]

Maybe you should rethink the stator output test or you don't describe what you tested correct, I think there is a brown/white lead in there somewhere. The timing disk just freezes to the crank a good penetrating product soaked over night will most of the time work. I would not use very much heat, I've not ever resorted to that. Just prying with a screwdriver, until it either comes off or breaks.
Put some anti freeze lube on the shaft when you put on the new one. Think about the guys with the 1991 motors, the timing disc is NLA, and has been for a long time. The running output test is most of the time used to detect a problem at higher RPMs You can run the motor with the shift switch unplugged, let the motor warm up off of Quikstart, it only works on a difficult shift anyway. I have seen them go bad no matter what position the plunger is in. Look up the JohnnyRude Faststrike/Intruder Easy Timer on E-Bay. I make these and give BBC members a 10% discount, If your ever in need of one just IM me, that way you will get the discount.

[BigFishSteve]

Thank you. I will re-read the stator output test.

Just found a variable resister and set it to 10 ohms. Going to take a long lunch and give the primaries a try.

When you say to pry the timing disk with a screw driver, are you saying to just pry up on the outer plastic of the wheel? Will I risk hurting any of the linkage or cover underneath? I have put a few drop of areokroil on the mating area twice now. Once last week and once on Sunday, but I have not pulled or pried on anything yet. Tried to inspect underneath the disk with small wire snake camera, but not enough room to see under.

What is the risk of putting on the new power pack and retesting all spark? Will I fry the new pack if the issue is upstream?

Thank you

[316jughead]

You have to be careful on what you pry on, yes you could break something. About the only thing about something upstream, you would get low voltage.

[ChampioNman]

Jerry is giving you some great info, I do have to ask two questions though. You have removed the 1/2 bolt for the disk correct? And have you tried a 50/50 mix of tranny fluid and acetone applied to the crankshaft/timing disk? I do have to compliment you on your posts very clear, concise and posting results. We don't see this very often, most times we have to pull teeth to get info. You can use a small chisel and tap on the brass collar and see if you can jostle it loose. You could test with the power pack briefly.

[BigFishSteve]

Thank you guys. More tests. Parts arrived. Today summary: New powerpack and one new coil installed. No big change. Details below.

Shift interupter diode proves good. Found #1 terminal via wiring diagram at end of manual (thanks). Low resistance one way, Overload when reversed.

Arrived home with rheostat. Re-tested all 6 sparks with gang multi bank visual box (to make sure symptoms have not changed). Video recording sparking with iphone slow motion setting. (High FPS) Same. #4 seldom sparks. #2 & #6 inconsistent and many weak/discolored sparks.

Retested all sparking with:
Shift switch unplugged. Same.
Shift switch and starboard temp sensor unplugged. Same
Shift switch, both temp sensors unplugged. Same.

Used 10 ohm rheostat from Primaries to ground. DVA adapter across rheostat. Digital meter set to DC auto range. In order that I tested them.

#1 165 v
#3 158 v (switched to port)
#2 105 v
#4 104 v
#6 107 v (back to starboard)
#5 162 v (switch around because old rheostat seemed sensitive, so checked in that order incase i moved rheostat setting)

Piddled with livewell pump while waiting on UPS man. Parts arrived. Checked parts, held and pet them. Small prayer. Inspected timing disk.

Visual test of old, still installed notches. Found opening next to disk plug that allowed my to watch notches while son slowly turned engine via timing bolt. Laid new disk on top of old, matched marks and watched notch for notch. Same disk. All old notches intacted and edges look sharp. Saw no debris. Added a few more drops of aerokroil. Wiped up excess. Current disk seems okay.

Could not resist installing new power pack. Installed and double check connections. Spark still erratic. Occaisonal missing spark on #5 now. All Port still erratic. #4 missed less. Still no better then 50%. #2 and #6 inconsistant with some missing and some very weak sparks. #2 worse than #6.

Warmed motor until out of Quickstart plus about 2 minutes. Retested all 6 sparks. #2 almost never fires. 1,3,4,5,6 all sparking. #4 shows about 1/4 or 1/3 weak sparks. (that is an improvement) Previous testing I had moved middle coil to top, so now wondering if coil may have issues.

Installed brand new coil at top (#1 and #2). #2 almost never sparks. #6 only sparks about 50% of time and many of them are weak.

Sad. Put everything back together. Tested idle return linkage. Kinda sticky. Assume it is due to OIS to powerpack wires need to take new shape. Loosened screws (2 plus 3) on "plastic tension arcs) and wiggled. Retightened. Much better, stops just barely shy of roller. I think vibration will make it return fully. Will recheck tomorrow and Thursday as wire take new set. I received a new return spring today also. Will change if needed, but looks tricky to remove/install spring end into arm. Not attempting yet. Will be easy if/when disk, linkages, flywheel get removed.

Thanks for listening. Frustrating. Marine Engines has CDI and Seirra stator in stock. They can get OMC in a week or so. Guess I will order the OMC in the next couple of day unless you guys say not too. Don't look forward to that job.

Good night guys.

[BigFishSteve]

Thanks to both of you guys.

Championman,

Yes, timing disk bolt taken out.

I have not heard of the tranny fluid/ acetone. I don't have either but can get them.

[316jughead]

Did you recheck what you did on the stator output test? All coils have a good ground connection?

[BigFishSteve]

No, I have not rechecked. I will also read about coil ground today over lunch. Will do both of these if I can get out of work with any day light left. Working in driveway.

[ChampioNman]

Tranny/Acetone poor man's areokroil. Got a gut feeling gonna be your stator, but hope not. Don't know if you've seen this but I'll put it up for someone that may be following. https://www.go2marine.com/productcen...-1991-2006.pdf

[ChampioNman]

Found you an OEM stator on Crowley marine for $298.00 https://www.crowleymarine.com/johnso...cfm?mdl=NRPCS3

[BigFishSteve]

Thank you. Good price, 1 in stock. Just ordered it.

Lots of good info in the CDI link. I just skimmed it. I see Stator DVA checks "connected" and "disconnected". All my check so far have been "disconnected", as I have never probed thru insulation. Not sure I could pull that off. I have tested all contacts at face of connector. Sometimes using paperclip inserted to give access for test clips. I don't have connector adapter plugs mentioned in manual nor have I taken any pins out of the connectors.

All testing only done while cranking without starting. Hope to retest stator items this afternoon.

New power pack is still installed, and I did let the engine idle last night. Guess I will leave it installed.

[316jughead]

Some of the new coils have like a shrink wrap on the ground strap, I guess to hold on the star washer, don't need that, you may not get a good ground. When testing the ignition the battery must be fully charged. Now I would like to make a comment about CDI. Don't take every thing they write as being totally accurate, it's a good read to help you understand this ignition system. I find several mistakes in their explanation and of the history of these motors. Nothing that will harm anyone I guess, but not accurate. Don't worry about any of their tests that different from your OEM manual, just follow the manual.

[BigFishSteve]

Haha. Yes, getting to tape off that held the 2 star washers in place was fun. Especially for my aging eyesight.

[BigFishSteve]

This is an old thread from 2019. Reviewing the results.

Looking over my own results. I never did install the new stator or timing disk. Tracking some current issues. Will report later. Thanks.

[ChampioNman]

This is an old thread from 2019. Reviewing the results.

Looking over my own results. I never did install the new stator or timing disk. Tracking some current issues. Will report later. Thanks.

Thanks for the update. I'll alert the press.

[BigFishSteve]

Sorry Fred. Had a trouble finding the thread, so I brought it back to make that easier to find