My latest finding on water intrusion.

[fishnfireman]

I'll try to paste the most pertinet information of this on going dilema as it progressed from my original post..http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=954316&page=3

First.

Low power problem -- motor has done this twice now, here are the deets.
Both times were after the boat wasn't used for a couple of weeks. When tried to use motor for first time I noticed the prop speed was way down. I tried turning the rheostat up, no difference- tried dialing from zero to 10 multiple times. I turned the motor off then back on -- unplugged it--tried the remote--spot lock.. Nothing made a difference. I thought it might be a dead battery and its only getting 24 volts. I kept trying and after a while It began to speed up for a short burst each time you depressed the button, the burst slowly got longer and soon it was working normal. It worked fine for the next 3 days.
Fast forward two weeks and it did the exact same thing.

.When I got in I checked and tightened all battery connections.. But I have no idea at this point if that helped since it seems to work fine until it sits several days.

Second.

Update..Checked motor while still on trailer. Same deal,very low power no matter where the dial was set. I tapped the motor with a small hammer and it started running like it should but was making noise. Luckily there is an ASC down here. He pulled the bottom rear bolt and it had some water. Funny thing the water had a smell and consistency of light oil.

Third.

Several months ago after reading about loose housing bolts I checked and tightened , put a dab of liquid tape over them.
When the ASC asked if anyone had been in the case I told him what I had done and why.

He claimed he had not heard of any loose housing bolts, and there was nothing but BS on fishing forums..

Sounds like I might get to eat this one since I tightened the bolts

Fourth

. The ASC wanted a deposit before he would order a new motor with shaft.

Since I need a motor regardless of who pays for it I paid him to get the thing in route.

I called Mr Jones our resident ASC after all this got started and he was very helpful in answering my questions, my only wish is he was closer.
Since the motor is going to be replaced one way or another, after the ASC drained the water from the motor I fished with it for 3 days, then pulled the housing bolt and there was no new water. IMO the water was in there prior to me tightening the bolts and putting the sealant over them!!

[fishnfireman]

Latest news.
The ASC said to get the motor warrantied it would have to be shipped to MK. Since I made some (modifications) when adding the SI transducer and hydrowave I just paid him for it. Even though my modifications in no way caused water intrusion to the housing. (I knew before doing the mods it could be an issue). So I have no one to blame but myself. Due to some health issues the ASC was not able to get the swap done so I brought everything back home with me to swap out.
I tore the motor down and cleaned armature which had slight grooves and discoloration from not having good contact with the brushes. When putting back together I found what caused this whole dang mess.
One of the housing bolts is defective.. it has a sharp imperfection on the shoulder right below the head where the O-ring sits. As you can see in the picture it cut the O-ring when assembled. When I tightened the bolts several months ago it probably cut it even more. but when I covered it with sealant it stopped the leak. But it already had a small amount of water inside by then.
In retrospect I don't think the motor is much worse for the wear. However going off some misinformation and miscommunication I panicked and paid some money thinking this one was toast.
Live and learn

bad bolt.jpg

[bgibson]

wow, good catch!

[Rip Bass]

Well,on the bright side,you have a spare now.

[fishnfireman]

Well,on the bright side,you have a spare now.

yes sir.. so I'm really going to (modify)it now.
while waiting for parts I'm going to run the transducer cable thru the housing and up the shaft with the other wires.

transducer.jpg

[billnorman1]

Something to watch for.

[rocket man]

How do you plan on sealing them wires.?

[Bradrodfish]

I would have handled this a little bit different. John made a statement in on of these threads about how it is important to pay attention to the skag on the troll motor. If the skag it knocked out of alignment it will tend to cause the thru bolts to become loose. I have to agree with that because I have seen it many times. This will tend to either cause the thru bolts to come loose and/or pinch or stretch the housing O-ring.
No water intrusion is good. Nobody is perfect so some things will get buy even if there is a good quality QC staff.
If you practice routine maintenance on your equipment you will become very familiar with your equipment. At the first sign of finding a problem then bring to ASC and don't tamper with the unit. Some ASC will let it slide some won't.

[fishnfireman]

How do you plan on sealing them wires.?

After drilling a 5/8 hole to accommodate the connection I epoxied a quarter sized cover plate from thin gauge SS with a cutout for the cord. Then filled the hole from the inside with marine grade silicone.. As thick as the case is I think the silicone would have been enough, especially where its located under the transducer mount.

[fishnfireman]

I would have handled this a little bit different. John made a statement in on of these threads about how it is important to pay attention to the skag on the troll motor. If the skag it knocked out of alignment it will tend to cause the thru bolts to become loose. I have to agree with that because I have seen it many times. This will tend to either cause the thru bolts to come loose and/or pinch or stretch the housing O-ring.
No water intrusion is good. Nobody is perfect so some things will get buy even if there is a good quality QC staff.
If you practice routine maintenance on your equipment you will become very familiar with your equipment. At the first sign of finding a problem then bring to ASC and don't tamper with the unit. Some ASC will let it slide some won't.

There was NO visible signs of any damage to this motor.. the skag was not moved bent or even marked. The only reason I tightened the bolts in the first place was to hopefully head off a leak because of the reports posted on here.

[AllyFishing]

I don't think you caused any of this Mike. I've had the same problem (with bolts and skeg out of alignment) on my new MG when I first got my boat in 2013. i loosened the bolts enough to center the skeg then tightened bolts back down. thankfully never had an issue with the motor. I would head right back over to that ASC as well as contact MK with pictures of that bolt and defend my self. Especially with MK. That bolt clearly shows the problem

[gleninaz]

My Ultrex was driving me nuts with no/low power issues and new batteries. I took it to the ASC and he said I had one of my charger wires crossed and needed one new battery. He also told me my warranty was now 3 years as they had issues with motor heads leaking from some bad packaging. I checked my wires and the motor worked for 2 months with no issues before the problems so I think the charger deal was BS. I haven't had the boat out for 5 weeks so need to see if it still works. It just may be the water intrusion issue.

[fishnfireman]

When the ASC checked mine it had very little inside. He took one of the case bolts out and we still had to deploy the motor while on the trailer before any water came out..

[Jonestrollingmotor]

Mike, If you havn't drilled that hole yet, I would say don't. Older Motorguide Tours had a transducer (they called it a Pinpoint model) permanently attached to the bottom of the center section, surrounded by steel. The transducer wire came through the case, was routed around the case and up the shaft, out the top. These units begin leaking at the transducer "hole" where it was silicone sealed. In an attempt tho fix the problem, there was a recall issued and new center section with a different design was issued and replaced the older style. Problem was, it still had the hole for the transducer cable to come through the motor but was sealed with epoxy instead of silicone. It leaked also. It was at that time that Motorguide when to the front end with the plastic and the transducer mounted internally.

On another note, I've looked at the bolt that you're referring to and not saying that wasn't the cause, but can tell you that when you take the bolt loose on a 112, it is going to tear the o'ring -- just something that happens. I can tell you from my trips to Mann Kato and going through the MinnKota plant that each (not a selective group) motor is assembled, the shaft permanently bonded to the lower unit, and placed in a clear test tank of water for a period of time. An employee overseeing this watches for air bubbles coming from the lower unit that would be present if water was going in, forcing air out. This is one of the QC test the motor must pass.
John

[fishnfireman]

They should have tried some J-B weld..
To late It's already drilled.... I figure WTHeck if it does leak It's already bought and paid for. Plus I have a brand new one sitting here if needed. Besides that I'm getting pretty good at tearing this thing down . I see on the web site you can order a new center section and start over if it's a total failure.

If you click on the bolt photo a couple of times it will enlarge.. Had I turned the O-ring over in the picture you could see it's (cut)... The deformity on the bolt is a ridge that will cut your finger and is facing so that the edge cuts when tightened. The cut O-ring has only been removed once the other one at least 4 times now and it still looks perfect...

[D-wayne]

A common statement "YOU CAN NOT PUT A TRANSUCER CABLE THROUGH THE TROLLING MOTOR HOUSING, IT WILL LEAK "
My response to that statement BULL CHIT...

Here is how to put the transducer cable through the trolling motor front cap and seal it properly so it will not leak, ever...
First thing is to have a person with good technical skills.
Second the cable will have to have the plug end cut off and reattached later. This will take some good wire soldering techniques to keep the same wire resistance and capacitance not to mention that it must be shielded and sealed up. A procedure that is nothing new to any instrumentation technologist.
To focus back to the trolling motor cap. The hole where the wire passes through must be large enough to allow for the sealant to encapsulate the cable. The hole must also be angled to have the cable run out of the cap towards the site of the transducer ensuring that the cable will not have any tension on it .
The cable must be placed in its final position when the trolling motor will be reassembled to ensure that the cable will not have any tension on it after assemble.
The sealant is best done in a two stage setting. First sealant must be able to run and seep around the cable and into the drilled hole. Using tape outside the cap keeps the sealant from running out when the sealant is applied from the inside of the cap. This sealant must have certain properties, flexibility, and strong adhesion to metals and plastics.
During the application of this sealant the cable must be centered in the hole to ensure a good layer around all.
Let the sealant fully cure.
Remove the tape from the outside of the cap and apply the second type of sealant. This sealant is a protective layer that is less flexible than the first sealant but it must be a little bit flexible and have great adhesive properties.
Application of this sealant provides protection to the first sealant as well as giving a protective coating to secure the cable from moving and from being hit while under the water.
The last thing is to coat everything up with a flexible paint.

All of the steps listed are the same as how aircraft fuel cells are sealed.
And yes I have done this before and I will be doing this again once the warranty period is over for my Ultrex.

[rocket man]

So tell us what are the sealants to use.

[fishnfireman]

I like working at things to make them better or easier for myself.. My wife and close friends claim I can fix anything. (not 100% true) but close !!
It came from growing up in the country around livestock and all kinds of equipment. We didn't have time or resources to have stuff fixed in town.. It may take more than one attempt but I will get it done.

[D-wayne]

So tell us what are the sealants to use.

I actually removed my recommendations because as soon as I put down my choices I know that there will be those who disagree (just because they can) and say my choices are wrong.
There are lots of great products out there that have the properties that I suggested.

[fishnfireman]

When finished I'm going to submerge the motor in water and pressure it up a little before putting the head back on.
If it doesn't hold will you PM your choices.