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  1. #1
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    Flagstick in or out?

    Watching a bit of the tournament today. Noticed some of the guys are leaving the pin in while putting. I still take it out but am wondering what are the advantages, if any, for leaving it in? My brainwashed brain says the pin takes up space in the hole where it can possibly deflect the ball from the hole. What is your take on this rule change?
    thanks!

  2. Member
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    #2
    I saw a video with pin in vs pin out using a ramp to release the ball from most every scenario possible and in every case the percentages were in favor of the pin in.

  3. Member
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    #3
    The science behind this has been settled for many years. You may recognize the name Dave Pelz as the short game guru who worked with Mickelson (and other tour players) for years - he has also written several books on the short game. What you may not know is that before all that he was a senior physicist at NASA. He approached golf with the scientific method.

    He did a study and concluded that any time the rules allow you to leave the pin it, there is an advantage to doing so. The only exceptions are in cases where the pin is unusually thick (blocking more of the hole) or leaning toward you due to some damage or other unusual condition. At the time, the rules only allowed you to leave the pin in when you were off the green, so he didn't specifically study putting per se, but his method involved studying the effect of the pin based on the speed the ball was traveling when it struck the pin - which means his findings apply whether the ball was putted or chipped or skulled or duffed.

    Here is a summary of his findings from 2007 https://www.golf.com/instruction/flag-or-out
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  4. Member haha's Avatar
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    #4
    If I'm away the flag will probably be in. If I'm not and the flag is pulled I won't have it put in. Let's keep pace of play going.
    1996 ProCraft 185 DC Pro, Mercury EFI 150

  5. Member
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    #5
    Chipping or putting from distance I'll leave it in but from 5 ft or closer I'm taking it out. It just looks strange to me standing over the ball and looking at the flag in the hole. But I do believe the science with it though. It's just odd to me to look at.

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    #6
    I played Saturday, some holes we left it in, some we took it out. Didn't really make a difference to me. When I played alone in the past, I always left it in.

  7. Member
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by okiemac View Post
    Chipping or putting from distance I'll leave it in but from 5 ft or closer I'm taking it out. It just looks strange to me standing over the ball and looking at the flag in the hole. But I do believe the science with it though. It's just odd to me to look at.
    We played today and left the pin on 16 of the holes. Like you, it looks strange putting 5 footers with the flagstick in the hole It's going to take some playing to get comfortable with this new rule. I did get my first birdie today. Holed out a wedge from 30 yards. No putting required.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeSF View Post
    We played today and left the pin on 16 of the holes. Like you, it looks strange putting 5 footers with the flagstick in the hole It's going to take some playing to get comfortable with this new rule. I did get my first birdie today. Holed out a wedge from 30 yards. No putting required.
    Pin in or out?

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    #9
    In for 16 holes.

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    #10
    I like it in for long putts over 10' and take it out for shorter putts.

  11. Member
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    #11
    In

  12. Member
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearetta View Post
    Pin in or out?
    i was asking did you remove the pin on the one you chipped in?
    i will do that when I am really trying to make a chip or rattle the opponent in match play just showing him I think I can.

  13. Moderator 200xp's Avatar
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    #13
    Based on my own research and the research I have found on the internet, the pin is staying in.
    What we cannot obtain from intelligence, we can learn from experience.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearetta View Post
    i was asking did you remove the pin on the one you chipped in?
    i will do that when I am really trying to make a chip or rattle the opponent in match play just showing him I think I can.
    The pin was in. The ball was resting just over the edge of the hole, up against the pin. It did not fall to the bottom of the hole till I moved the pin towards the middle of the cup.

  15. Member
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    #15
    Our Monday group here in Central Fl., leave pin IN ! Good target on long puts, if you hit pin on a short put, ball stays closer to the hole than if you run it by.

  16. Indiana Bass Club Moderator sc419795's Avatar
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    #16
    Out or attended.
    Steve
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  17. Member
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    #17
    I leave it in, 1 less thing to bend over and pick up

  18. Member cart7's Avatar
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeSF View Post
    The pin was in. The ball was resting just over the edge of the hole, up against the pin. It did not fall to the bottom of the hole till I moved the pin towards the middle of the cup.
    This.
    A lot of muni courses have worn out pins or cups causing the ball to not fall in because the flags leaning

  19. Member kcg202champ's Avatar
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    #19
    Pull that SOB out and sink the putt