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  1. #1
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    What a Florida Bass Guide writes about the Lake Conditions for Fishing

    I will preface this by saying that this email was not written to me. I found it on another Bass Fishing Site and was posted by a guy that had Booked a Trip with this Guide on 'Poga. He had asked about the recent Spraying and it's effects and this is what the Guide Respond with.

    Your Thoughts? Agree or Disagree?

    Those who do NOT understand 'the effects of herbicides' on fish in general, and bass specifically, make these types of claims.

    Every single lake from the town of Kissimmee to the town of Clewiston have a problem which was caused by nature 17 months ago. The Hurricane of 2017, essentially 'stirred Okeechobee, Istokpoga, Kissimmee Chain of lakes' with the worst effects occurring in the southern lakes, Okee and Istok.

    Any open water deeper section grass beds were torn up and deposited on the north and western shorelines. This alone has caused fish to use the lake completely differently than they normally would--there were 5-7 foot waves for six hours.

    And the majority of anglers discount this factor, opting instead to blame the 'weed management program' ….because....the FWC changed it's 'spray policy' from biannual mass-block treatments of 1000's of acres in one event to a new strategy of targeting invasive plants weekly while these areas are just starting to develop---average spray target is less than two feet in size.

    Now, the FWC is publishing data which shows there currently is a 40% reduction in herbicide used as compared with the large-scale block treatment events of the past. So they make the claim that annually, much less chemical is entering the water, and thus the fishery will be improving over time. They also site the hurricane as being the reason fishing is not as productive as in the years when nature did nothing severe to the environment for 4-6 years (which have always been the best-fishing years).

    The water clarity is the same as it's been since 2004, hardly enough change to even mention. However the bass are using the lake differently, because the areas which spraying occurs, happens to be caused by the anglers themselves. They fish where the fish are, which deposits invasive plant species when boats come off plain, which in turn produces areas of invasive species growth, which then requires weekly spraying of the same traditional fish areas every few weeks.

    So yes, the spray boats are out there daily, policing the lake for invasive plants. However it's spot spraying only....in angler's best fishing holes. And fish move when their cover dies (collateral damage occurs when spraying Hyacinth within bulrush and lily pads) and move to the closest suitable area to obtain safety again.

    My experience in the last 14 months: Boated 3 bass over 10 lbs. (one 14 lb. one 13lb. and one 11 lb.) and average weekly 5-6 bass between 8-9 lb. 14 oz. range. The least caught bass sizes are 5-7 lbs. and 10"-2 lbs. which is due to the storm ---I believe the storm injured or stunned the active size fish of each species in the lake, which the 1000 plus 8-10 foot gator population fed on, in the week after the storm.

    No one was out there using the lake for a month after the storm due to floating dock pieces and anything which was not tied down on lake front properties. So no one witnessed the gator feast occurring. Currently the gator population is thriving on the lake---they were all on land when the storm hit.

    Yes the lake currently is more challenging since the eight separate sections of the lake no longer have active feeding bass in the historical fishing holes. Instead bass are feeding 100 yards from those historical areas. And the deep water grass beds are returning quickly.

    The number one problem with all of Florida's freshwater lake after a major storm is....the massive agricultural runoff which washed at enormous rates, fertilizers into the lakes and stream influents. This has caused an accelerated growth cycle with invasive plant species, which would cause 4-6 large scale block treatment events annually ...IF the FWC did not switch to small area treatments weekly.

    I know of many anglers who still catch trophy bass regularly on Istokpoga ---still the best lake for catching 10 plus pounders. Middle sized bass however are hard to come by. A typical day is one fish over 8 lbs. three fish in the 2-4 pound range, and perhaps one or two at 6" for a daily 5-fish total of 14-16 lbs. Prior to the storm I produced a 21 lb. 5-fish total average---mid-size bass making the difference.

    Shiner guides have left the lake because they can not get a shiner and bobber into the vegetation far enough to where the bass are waiting in ambush. And these bass are not going to come into open water where gator wait...literally under the guides boats or very close in proximity.

    Believe it or not, this is 'The Short Answer" to your inquiry. I could expound in much greater detail.

    Remember: Most angler do NOT accurately record their day's fishing results. They credit the wrong factor when they catch a bass, (switching to a different bait color is not the reason they caught fish on Istokpoga, Okeechobee, Toho, Kissimmee or...any shallow muck-type lake, due to the low clarity of these lakes down through history) and believe the wrong reasons for catching bass.

    The secret is to....learn and execute a 'natural presentation' of a bait native to the fishery. Get that done where fish are taking cover and you'll catch bass.

    Also...the food chain in Istokpoga is still the richest food-chain of any lake in the state. Bass still grow over 2 lbs per year which means bass do NOT have to work hard for their food. If you don't put it very close to their holding spot, they will not chase it down. There is no such thing as a 'reaction bite' in the best trophy bass lakes, they're too fat and lazy due to food being....everywhere.

    The greater a lake's food-chain, the harder it is to entice them or trick them, into striking. The FWC shock boat events demonstrate a much longer time locating concentrations of fish, but once they found them, they shocked up numbers of species as good as the historical norm.

    Will we catch bass when we go fishing? Right now there's a two days off to one day feeding ratio occurring at the current temperature range 64-68 degrees. Ideal temp range is 70-82 degrees where fish feed every other day. And....this year's weather pattern has produced the most severe weather on the best monthly periods of the new and full moons. Most anglers do NOT fish in such adverse challenging conditions....which is when I catch the best bass of the month.

    Very few anglers will agree with this email's assertion opting instead to blame the spraying of weeds...it is much much easier.

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    #2
    Completely disagree. He states the reason for lack of cover was the hurricane 17 months ago. Well guess what I fished a TX down there two 1/2 years ago and there wasn't a blade of hydrilla and that was before the hurricane. 5 years ago when the lake was matted out with hydrilla catch ratios were much higher. Then FWC nuked it. If he thinks 6 fish in one days of fishing is good then I certainly wouldn't want him as a guide! A good day fishing is 20 plus fish in a day, not 6. Caught 31 pnds in a lake around here in a tx ( 1 dead fish so tech 30 and change) , went back and every bit of hydrilla had been sprayed and killed. Didn't get a bite which was to no surprise, I just fished it so I could tell the FWC yes I fished it after the spray and see the results.

    Its like this,
    #1 name AYTHNG the government has done right ... state or federal
    #2 when does the government tell the truth?
    -- example -- any stats by the gov are manipulated or manufactured to support their agenda
    Last edited by Manatee Mauler; 01-18-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  3. Better Lucky Than Good! Casslaw's Avatar
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    #3
    It’s not only much “easier” to blame the spraying but it’s also true. They are spraying lakes that do not have a large amount of invasive species. They Are taking away natural bass habitat. I’m sure this person believes that what he says is true on his little piece of Florida but head over to the Harris Chain and attempt to make that argument.

    Im no guide, just a weekend warrior, and I bought my boat June 1, 2018. I’ve boated 7 fish over 7 pounds, 3 over 8 and 2 over 10 in the last 7 months and I spend MUCH less time than him on the water and only use artificials. I’ve boated too many in the 5-6 range to count so I do not buy that our gator population decimated “mid sized” bass for one second.

    I believe the early cold water temps and yes, the spraying, for the fact that I stopped catching good fish in mid December.

    We can never control Mother Nature, nor should we use her as a scapegoat for our actions! We are the ones taking away the habitat of all fish. If bait, bluegills, crappie, shiners, Frye of all kinds don’t have these weeds to stay safe the growth rate is a moot point.

    Just MY opinion.
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    #4
    Oh now you gone and done it Fred.

  5. Member Panama's Avatar
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    #5
    I am not saying what's right or wrong because I am not smart enough. One lake I fish has to be sprayed sometimes because if they didn't, the cabbage type weeds would be so bad that you could not drive the boat there much less throw something that would reach the water. I have seen it almost bank to bank solid junk and you couldn't even see water.

    But I will say this... I saw them spraying with my own eyes a couple of times last year on a different couple of lakes...AND IT WAS NOT SPOT SPRAYING...unless the WHOLE lake was the spot. They had on white suits and a hose sprayer that would put out an unbelievable amount of spray and could shoot probably 20 yards away and they were spraying everything with the wind carrying the mist everywhere. I saw that myself. We left.
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  6. Member
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    #6
    Sound's like so far everyone is not agreeing with that. I do not either. The first time I ever fished Poga was the summer of '81. Coming up on 38 years ago. Used to wade fish the islands. Damn snowflakes now are scared to do that. Even waded Okeechobee pelican bay area back then. I have seen Poga topped out to only boat trails out of the fish camps and now this. Unfortunate killing of the filter. This year will be the first year our club is not fishing Poga. I will not fish it for a while. My 12 year old son will not be able to experience the awesomeness of Poga yet, I hope future is better. I have run tournaments on poga for over 20 years. Sad what they have done. Saying a Hurricane has ruined it is so wrong. There was a lake called Walk in Water that was off the chain. One of the best in Florida . Yes A Hurricane ripped the hydrilla out of the lake. Sorry you can not telli me in over 12 years it would not grow back???? they keep it gone. Poga has more fish camps on the lake then any other lake I know of in Florida. Ask how there all doing? When the hydrilla was in the these lakes fishing was on fire. Little walk in water had a tournament.Billy Westmoreland Open had I think 107 boats. Buddies of mine won it. Talk about spending money in Lake Wales. Wheres that now? When there was hydrilla in Poga water was gin clear. There was a lady fish biologist that used to have tagged fish on Poga. She told me she go in her kayak and track those fish. She told me when there is hydrilla they were always in the hydrilla. When theyspray it they always moved to the reeds. Fish prefer the Hydrilla is what she told me. I could go on and on about it. Something needs to change. It was better when there was a boat trail. Miss it.
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    #7
    From a scientific perspective, this opinion seems to not hold water very well (his spelling and syntax not much better):

    "They fish where the fish are, which deposits invasive plant species when boats come off plain, which in turn produces areas of invasive species growth, which then requires weekly spraying of the same traditional fish areas every few weeks."

    I can only conclude he believes boats come to the lake draped in invasive grasses, the grass stays firmly adhered to the boat while on plane, then promptly falls off when the boat comes off plane and starts fishing??

    "The number one problem with all of Florida's freshwater lake after a major storm is....the massive agricultural runoff which washed at enormous rates, fertilizers into the lakes and stream influents. This has caused an accelerated growth cycle with invasive plant species, which would cause 4-6 large scale block treatment events annually ...IF the FWC did not switch to small area treatments weekly."

    He is corrected regarding the primary issue after a storm. Most large storm water events cause a spike in biological oxygen demand (BOD). The BOD spike occurs when available dissolved oxygen is consumed in the oxidation of organics (forest floor and swamp bottom detritus) that are flushed into the lake and/or freed from bottom sediments. This oxidation process depletes dissolved oxygen levels and fish die. Ag fertilizer run off is typically diluted to near non detectable levels during large storm events.

    "Currently the gator population is thriving on the lake---they were all on land when the storm hit."

    To know that every alligator was on land during the hurricane is impressive, unless he had had every gator fitted with a GPS transponder. The author of this piece needs to be made aware that an alligator population is no indicator to the health of a fishery or the quality of the water. Alligators have lungs, not gills. Anyone who has been to Apopka will understand this.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Casslaw View Post
    It’s not only much “easier” to blame the spraying but it’s also true. They are spraying lakes that do not have a large amount of invasive species. They Are taking away natural bass habitat. I’m sure this person believes that what he says is true on his little piece of Florida but head over to the Harris Chain and attempt to make that argument.

    Im no guide, just a weekend warrior, and I bought my boat June 1, 2018. I’ve boated 7 fish over 7 pounds, 3 over 8 and 2 over 10 in the last 7 months and I spend MUCH less time than him on the water and only use artificials. I’ve boated too many in the 5-6 range to count so I do not buy that our gator population decimated “mid sized” bass for one second.

    I believe the early cold water temps and yes, the spraying, for the fact that I stopped catching good fish in mid December.

    We can never control Mother Nature, nor should we use her as a scapegoat for our actions! We are the ones taking away the habitat of all fish. If bait, bluegills, crappie, shiners, Frye of all kinds don’t have these weeds to stay safe the growth rate is a moot point.

    Just MY opinion.
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    #9
    Thanks to all for their Thoughts.

    My own thoughts were "these are the Comments of a Guide that wants Customers". While I do not have much knowledge of 'Poga, I do have personal knowledge of other Fl Lakes and Rivers. The Hurricane did do a number on the St Johns (at least south of Lake George) but even it is starting to come back. If they would stop the spraying it might help some.

    I've personally fished a lake and the water was good and clean, then the following week it was like chocolate milk and they were spraying a solid stream of 2" hose of poison. There is no way I can believe that having no vegetation is good for the environment.

  10. Member SuperBee's Avatar
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    #10
    I live on the lake and I can tell you this person is full of Sh$$

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    #11
    I visited Florida in April 2018 went to Harris chain and it was awesome. Clean and lots of vegetation including hydrilla. They sprayed the last day we fished!
    Do i think there was to much hydrilla yes. Fast forward to Christmas this year. Launched same ramp. Water was disgusting and almost ALL vegetation was dead even areas of Lilly’s and reeds.
    Fished 30 minutes and left to another lake.
    Im no excerpt but they just didn’t target hydrilla.
    Went to a private lake with a guide who guides on Harris and said it’s a completely different lake.
    I don’t know if it was Hurricanes or spraying. But it’s a shame!
    I think when tourism is effected because less fisherman come to rent rooms, eat out, hire guides then someone FWC or local politicians may try to figure out why!
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    #12
    I've watched the destruction in areas that weren't effected by any storm.
    He's trying to convince someone, but it won't work on me or other natives.
    Sure, storms effect our lakes, always have and always will, that's true.
    But unless we didn't have hurricanes before the spraying campaigns ...

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    #13
    Comes across as a guy that smokes way to much weed to me.

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    #14
    There is no doubt that over spraying will severely damage a lake. The spray kills the vegetation and it gradually makes it to the bottom of the lake and turns to a mushy matted cover over the beautiful sand that most fish prefer to use as a spawning ground. During the spawning season many species of fish will lay fish eggs that will possibly be killed by the chemicals. I watched this happen on East Lake Toho two years ago. When I was at the ramp I noticed the spray boats and spoke to the supervisor spraying the lake, he assured me he would not be spraying the area I would be fishing. Three hours later, they showed up and started spraying and came as close as 75 feet from my boat. I waived the guy down and he told me plans were changed while on the lake. There were a lot of bass beds and fish on those beds. Three weeks later I went into that same area and noticed very few bass in the area and some small recently hatched bass dead bass on the surface of the water and in the grass beds. All I could do was shake my head at the stupidity of this act in the prime time of the bedding season.

    I will confirm one thing he said, The storm definitely up rooted many areas of vegetation and deposited them in other locations. This environmental change to lake (ELToho) changed the fish migration routes and disrupted the previous years spawning habits for 2018 and some of the lakes have not recovered as quickly as I thought they would. I have had to change my fishing patterns to compensate for the spraying and storm damage in 2017. I hope this years things will settle down and the spawning will be more predictable.

    I normally catch a few bass of more than 10 lbs each year. I hope I can improve on that number this year.

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    #15
    I agree with the comments about the Hurricane ripping up grass and changing the lakes. Lake George got hit really hard on the West side around the normal bedding areas near the Springs. It still hasn't recovered.

    It will be interesting to see what the BASS Elites do when they hit Palatka in February.

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    #16
    Palatka will be tough this go around due to cold fronts back to back! Might actually see them at Salt run etc ! Also Cliff Prince will have a huge advantage as he knows the river very well so doesn’t rely on bed fishing

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    #17
    Palatka will be tough this go around due to cold fronts back to back! Might actually see them at Salt run etc ! Also Cliff Prince will have a huge advantage as he knows the river very well so doesn’t rely on bed fishing

  18. Better Lucky Than Good! Casslaw's Avatar
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    #18
    It’s not that I disagree that the Hurricane and other tropical systems we get in Florida can decimate a lake, even many lakes, but don’t blame Mother Nature when We All See “them” spraying Harmless Chemicals in ALL of Our lakes while wearing HazMat suits! It’s simply insulting.

    Thank you Deadeye1, I had a great run of big fish for 5 months, but don’t worry, the Fish Gods have gotten even...haven’t caught a single fish over 5 pounds since Christmas! And I was not at all trying to brag, just putting my meager fishing up against this “guide” and his accomplishments. I’m absolutely nothing special when it comes to catching a bass, trust me on this one!
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  19. Member 78Staff's Avatar
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bass2dy View Post
    Palatka will be tough this go around due to cold fronts back to back! Might actually see them at Salt run etc ! Also Cliff Prince will have a huge advantage as he knows the river very well so doesn’t rely on bed fishing
    Looking forward to see what they come up with...I plan to get down there a few days if I can.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Casslaw View Post
    It’s not that I disagree that the Hurricane and other tropical systems we get in Florida can decimate a lake, even many lakes, but don’t blame Mother Nature when We All See “them” spraying Harmless Chemicals in ALL of Our lakes while wearing HazMat suits! It’s simply insulting.

    Thank you Deadeye1, I had a great run of big fish for 5 months, but don’t worry, the Fish Gods have gotten even...haven’t caught a single fish over 5 pounds since Christmas! And I was not at all trying to brag, just putting my meager fishing up against this “guide” and his accomplishments. I’m absolutely nothing special when it comes to catching a bass, trust me on this one!
    Believe me I know what you mean! It was 2 years ago when I could do no wrong. Caught more 5-7+ fish then ever, But I never did break the 8 lb mark. Didn't seem to matter where I went I caught Big Fish.

    Then for some reason every thing flipped. Then I couldn't catch one over 3-4 lbs to save my life! Last year things slowly started to change and thsoe 5+ fish started coming back.

    Hope this year those pesky 8+ ones are on my list!

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