Security guard saves lives and is killed for his efforts.

[hugo_stiglitz]

Interesting story here.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...115-story.html

[grandbassslayer]

Interesting story here.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...115-story.html

Sounds like a good eye witness testimony. I don't like how the paper makes it out to be a white-black thing. I understand stating the facts but it seems like some inference going on.

[LgMouthGambler]

Sounds like a good eye witness testimony. I don't like how the paper makes it out to be a white-black thing. I understand stating the facts but it seems like some inference going on.

The media do that? No way!

[Bassin Billy]

Prayers for all involved. The family of the victims, the security guard and the officer that shot the security guard.

[TampaJim]

Let's all agree that hopefully there's solid video footage of the event.
And that it will allow an unbiased resolution to the entire event.

[Tundah]

In that case, maybe we should just post photos of CCW holders and shoot on site.

That’s quite the extreme leap you took. All I can say is thank goodness we have very strong case law supporting the objective reasonableness standard of the circumstances at the time and not through the lense of 20/20 hindsight. Your post implies an officer should apply deadly force restraint simply because a weapon is not raised towards the officer. What I am telling you is it’s already too late if the threat intends to engage. I’ve witnessed it in both law enforcement training environments and officered involved shooting investigations.

But futile of me to engage the SME of everything, TJ.

[grandbassslayer]

Your post implies an officer should apply deadly force restraint simply because a weapon is not raised towards the officer. What I am telling you is it’s already too late if the threat intends to engage.

That's exactly what they should do, protect and serve. Officer safety should take a back seat to citizen safety. On a lot of these cop shows I seem to hear the officers always say the most important thing is that they go home safe to their families tonight. That's not the most important thing, they have it backwards. That's not bashing officers just stating that priorities have been shifted.

[jigman51]

That’s quite the extreme leap you took. All I can say is thank goodness we have very strong case law supporting the objective reasonableness standard of the circumstances at the time and not through the lense of 20/20 hindsight. Your post implies an officer should apply deadly force restraint simply because a weapon is not raised towards the officer. What I am telling you is it’s already too late if the threat intends to engage. I’ve witnessed it in both law enforcement training environments and officered involved shooting investigations.

But futile of me to engage the SME of everything, TJ.

Now you're learning.

[D.O.C. 989]

That's exactly what they should do, protect and serve. Officer safety should take a back seat to citizen safety. On a lot of these cop shows I seem to hear the officers always say the most important thing is that they go home safe to their families tonight. That's not the most important thing, they have it backwards. That's not bashing officers just stating that priorities have been shifted.

Priorities have never changed, however people have. That is for both Protect and Serve and going home safe. This has been true for any Department I have ever had the pleasure to work with, maybe yours is different.

[TampaJim]

Unless the Security Guard RAISED THE FIREARM toward the LEO there was NO reason to shoot him. LE are supposed to de-escalate a situation, not escalate it.

I didn't stand alone in my assessment. Again, LE is supposed to do as much as possible to save lives.
If this initial call stands, he deserves hard time. And, honestly, anyone who thinks it's OK needs another job.
I grew up in LE and respect it fully. But you'll never get me to sign off on acting overtly aggressive at all.
Police have to exercise restraint, they are protectors, not assailants. As noted, serve and protect.

Again, I really, really hope there's live footage. It would put to rest the entire situation as to actions taken.

[Jaredn]

That's exactly what they should do, protect and serve. Officer safety should take a back seat to citizen safety. On a lot of these cop shows I seem to hear the officers always say the most important thing is that they go home safe to their families tonight. That's not the most important thing, they have it backwards. That's not bashing officers just stating that priorities have been shifted.

It’s called operational risk management based on the situation at hand. Is the life of one person an officer chooses to die for today worth more than the three lives that fallen officer could’ve saved tomorrow?

[TampaJim]

It’s called an acceptable level of risk based on the situation at hand. Is the life of one person an officer chooses to die for today worth more than the three lives that fallen officer could’ve saved tomorrow?

We don't weigh lives like fish in a basket. Doesn't work that way.

[Jaredn]

You’re right. I have no clue what I’m talking about

[D.O.C. 989]

I didn't stand alone in my assessment. Again, LE is supposed to do as much as possible to save lives.
If this initial call stands, he deserves hard time. And, honestly, anyone who thinks it's OK needs another job.
I grew up in LE and respect it fully. But you'll never get me to sign off on acting overtly aggressive at all.
Police have to exercise restraint, they are protectors, not assailants. As noted, serve and protect.

Again, I really, really hope there's live footage. It would put to rest the entire situation as to actions taken.

Your idea that someone, anyone can hold a gun after being told to or not told to drop it and the Officer should wait for said person to raise the gun and point it at the Officer is insane.

[D.O.C. 989]

We don't weigh lives like fish in a basket. Doesn't work that way.

You are weighing the Officers lives like fish in a basket by making absurd accusations and saying they need to wait for the gun to be raised and pointed.

[bullet20vee]

If the guy drops the gun, he lives to beat up another drunk kid on another Saturday night. People need to understand that when an officer tells you to drop the gun, drop the damn gun. Then everything can get sorted out and everyone goes home safe. My God how hard is that to understand?

[Basscaster]

Prayers for the Security Guard and his Family.. Sad / Sad Situation for All those involved in this reckless Act. I can't believe this Shooting from this small community is getting National attention... I just heard another story on the News from the other room.

[grandbassslayer]

It’s called operational risk management based on the situation at hand. Is the life of one person an officer chooses to die for today worth more than the three lives that fallen officer could’ve saved tomorrow?

Yes. A bird in the hand... .

[Jaredn]

Yes. A bird in the hand... .

hmm I guess you should revamp the combat rescue program. yes, a bit different but the concept is the same. We’ve been doing this wrong for decades apparently

[JerryT]

Jerry, only way he will pay for it is if he is convicted of manslaughter. I have respect for the police, but shooting an innocent person has happened too many times.

I know you had a completely trouble free career but not everyone is perfect .. add in the times we live in with cops getting killed eating lunch or while parked in a cruiser and they will just be more on edge .. I know a bunch of you here would walk into an active shooter call cool as a cucumber and make all the right choices ... i just wish a few of you would open up a training school for law enforcement and fix all these issues .. many of you have all the answers

As for paying for it.. you think he is at home celebrating ? Even if not convicted of a crime he had a punishment that will stay with him for life