The death of side imaging

[LWINCHESTER2]

We never know where the next break through in sonar for the mass market will show up. For years all the talk was who had the best 2d. Then came side and down imaging. Garmin shocked the industry with Panoptix and now the LiveScope. What I am seeing with LiveScope is nothing short of amazing. My lake has tons more spotted bass than walleye, but when I'm out in 100 FOW looking for walleye and look over towards the bank and see 20-30 spotted bass holding along an incline barely off the bottom I can't seem to turn it down. I don't want to bass fish, but these fish, almost without exception, when there are this many and you put a lure right in front of their face will bite. It may be a little tricky catching the first one, but once you catch one, the action gets wild.

Most of you know my goto box for seeing close to the bottom has long been the Vexilar Edge3. Not any more. With a tight 2d cone all you can see is that small area just under the boat, one little spot. The LiveScope "sees" closer to the bottom than the Edge3 and shows a huge range all at one time. This happened yesterday. I was looking for my walleye in 100 FOW and pointed the LiveScope over towards the bank, up a ridge. Nothing on the ridge. Then as I rotated the TM off the side of the ridge, there they were, barely off the bottom, under the crest of the ridge, strung down the incline.

Now you might could use side imaging to find-see these fish, but you have the complications of quickly changing depth, hard terrain, and finessing the settings, a focused study of the screen, looking for shadows against the background, etc. Maybe, if you get all that right. With the LiveScope all it takes is a glance. No brain work or finesse of the settings involved. Point and shoot. Where I see this signifying the death of side imaging is with a transducer that doesn't yet exist, but Garmin has already shown that it's just a matter of putting the pieces together. Upgrade the PS30 to LiveScope capability and extend the coverage area all the way to the surface. With the current PS30 I wouldn't have seen these fish. They were too shallow and would be in that dead area at the top of the screen. But an updated, revised PS30 could change that.

I see all the time folks extolling the virtues of side imaging to show detailed structure. rocks, trees, etc. I don't think it's because they are looking to find rocks and trees to bring home. It's because they associate certain structure with the optimism of finding fish there. And yes the fish can be seen, if, if, if. So Garmin, I'm waiting for the next generation of LiveScope that makes side imaging obsolete.

[ring fry]

On my front deck I have one unit that always has LiveScope on it and I am finding more and more that I really like the SideVu on the other unit. I just like the combination of the two. With both at the same time they back up what the other one is 'seeing' and just makes it that much better. What I am finding is that I use 2D sonar less and less up front. On the console I usually have one unit split between ClearVu and 2D, one unit with SideVu and the other with maps.

SE Kansas grass grower

[DogDoc15]

This post just makes me happier I went with Garmin! I have only used it briefly but I could see how Livescope would make me care less about looking at anything else.

[LWINCHESTER2]

Soon, when crappie start staging shallow I'm going to point LiveScope to one side and PS22 to the other side for my shallow water searching.

[D Johnson]

We push jigs on 8 poles on the bow of the boat. I have a LiveScope on a stick with the ducer for the 93sv on the bottom of the stick. Beside that I have a 10" Mega SI bird running 360 on another stick. and below those two I have another Meda Si 10" running SI. I think I spend to much time playing and watching the Live Scope. It is so neat to say fish 60 feet ahead and then watch them come up to the jig. A little disappointing to see then not take it and go back down but it lets you know you might need to change something. I can pivot the stick to see each of the baits and tell how deep the weight and jig is running. You can only see one rig at a time due to cone width at 18' We use 18 and 20 foot poles. Using perset buttons I can switch views fast on all 3 units and only like to use them in full screen views. The Birds's SI is better then Garmins probably shouldn't be saying that on the Garmin's forum. Oh well. Now if Garmin would only straight their HomePort program or someone would develop a good one. Also I wish it would record LiveScope . Don

[LWINCHESTER2]

Also I wish it would record LiveScope . Don

That's reserved for the GPSMAP units.

[Astrochris]

That's reserved for the GPSMAP units.

I have a GPSMAP unit and I can't record panoptix PS22,, only 2D side and down offers a recording option.

[Chief Brody]

Sideview is alive and well with me still: Im fascinated by what it shows under that water that we never knew was there before

[LWINCHESTER2]

I have a GPSMAP unit and I can't record panoptix PS22,, only 2D side and down offers a recording option.

I thought you meant do a real time video recording of the display using AC.

[LWINCHESTER2]

Sideview is alive and well with me still: Im fascinated by what it shows under that water that we never knew was there before

But...... What if instead of the fish being displayed against the background of the bottom once you are looking farther than the current depth, it displayed them against the background of the water column like LiveScope. Much better proposition IMO.

[InternationalMarine Brian]

Side imaging will never be obsolete, just like 2d.

[Chief Brody]

But...... What if instead of the fish being displayed against the background of the bottom once you are looking farther than the current depth, it displayed them against the background of the water column like LiveScope. Much better proposition IMO.

but then i might miss all the tires and tree branches

truth is i’d love to have livescope, and will get it one of these days

[sfw1960]

Live imaging isn't new, just to the consumer market and not very affordable to the weekend occasional fisherman.

All the OEMs will have a version available soon and it's going to be another option just as being able to adjust sweep range of frequency on Chirp is on many machines is now.

Side and down imaging isn't going anywhere soon Len, it may even get better or become a phased array that looks left and right beside a steerable forward option like yours.

Cameras are going to become a lot harder sell because they require better water visibilities whereas sonar doesn't.

I expect to see phased array sonar becoming much more common, but certainly not for $199.


I fish walleye much differently than yourself and often cover miles in a night in less than 18 fow, often closer to 10-12.

I've got a few listed on the Michigan DNR site over 12 lbs that came in 10 fow as Master Angler Awards with the techniques we use.

I use SI to keep track of if the fish are sliding down the steep breaks or going to lay up into 3-4 fow as well as target identification.

These are migrational fish from Lake Michigan and have a wide range of habits over the course of the year.

The 2D is probably what I depend on the least, but I certainly don't feel that's going away any time soon either.

Time will tell, but I'd be happy to place a bet with you my friend SI isn't dead...


RAS

[pfisher]

SI may be dead with Garmin but I use mine all the time. I can range out to 250 on each side and see the "big picture" or I can bring it in to see the fish in the brush pile.

I actually tried the GT52 for awhile yesterday on my 1242. I think they have already killed it........

[pfisher]

but then i might miss all the tires and tree branches

truth is i’d love to have livescope, and will get it one of these days

It's those fish in the tires and branches I am looking for. There is one brand that shows them to me :-)

[pfisher]

We push jigs on 8 poles on the bow of the boat. I have a LiveScope on a stick with the ducer for the 93sv on the bottom of the stick. Beside that I have a 10" Mega SI bird running 360 on another stick. and below those two I have another Meda Si 10" running SI. I think I spend to much time playing and watching the Live Scope. It is so neat to say fish 60 feet ahead and then watch them come up to the jig. A little disappointing to see then not take it and go back down but it lets you know you might need to change something. I can pivot the stick to see each of the baits and tell how deep the weight and jig is running. You can only see one rig at a time due to cone width at 18' We use 18 and 20 foot poles. Using perset buttons I can switch views fast on all 3 units and only like to use them in full screen views. The Birds's SI is better then Garmins probably shouldn't be saying that on the Garmin's forum. Oh well. Now if Garmin would only straight their HomePort program or someone would develop a good one. Also I wish it would record LiveScope . Don

After last weekend I called a buddy and asked him if he wanted to buy a boat. He was like "WTH" are you talking about? To which I replied, " I've spent all day watching fish reject my offerings and the stress is just to much." LOL

[DonnieG]

If SI dies soon , then DI will follow..If this happens I will go back to this::I will not depend on "Rapid Fire 2D" Glob again....

[BassTracker175]

I think DI/SI are 2D technology which is useful when boats are moving; The new Livescope is 3D technology that’s very useful when boats are stationary or ice-fishing.

[sfw1960]

If SI dies soon , then DI will follow..If this happens I will go back to this::I will not depend on "Rapid Fire 2D" Glob again....

All of them can have their own successful applications IMO - and none will replace another; or the armed forces would have done so already.

There's probably a rock on standby for every aircraft carrier too Donnie !

[LWINCHESTER2]

......it may even get better or become a phased array that looks left and right beside a steerable forward option like yours.

Hi Robert. Thank you for your comments. I'll have to clarify my statement a bit. I find that I have to do that more and more these days. Your water is perfect for my comparison. Shallow water where you will be looking left and right farther than the depth of water you are in. Of course, this is not a real comparison. I comparing current on the market SI with futuristic Panoptix/LiveScope that doesn't exist. It's one they have the current capability to produce by adding a few more components and appropriate software.

Take the best SI on the market. Whatever brand you think is best. Say, like Humminbird. Now take whatever model of that brand you think is best. Say, maybe Solix. We'll let the water be 20 ft deep but you want to be looking right and left out to 80 or 100 ft. Now let's let an experienced, knowledgeable user, like yourself tune the unit to the optimal settings for this situation.

Now for the one I'm not calling side imaging. Yes, it would be a multi-beam phased array transducer looking left and right, like the PS30. But it needs some significant modifications for my futuristic model. It's a few elements short. There is currently a blind area near the surface on both sides so we need to add some more elements to make that part of the coverage area to get a full 180 degrees of coverage. Second the elements in it need to be upgraded to be the elements in the LiveScope xd for better detail. -OR- Take the current LiveScope xd and add two more arrays of elements. Currently it "sees" in the direction it is pointed from the surface, down under the boat and back behind the boat some, but lacks the arrays to make the rest of the 180. That's not difficult to imagine since we have screenshots and videos of the LiveScope being used. You just have to imagine 180 instead of 135 degrees. Now for the ace in the hole. How experienced or expert would the user need to be? Set the depth to Auto. Set the range to 100 ft. Get the gain to Auto Med or Auto High.

Granted, both will show you fish. On the SI you'll have to wait on the scroll, so how far the fish are behind you is more. How deep are they? That's more obvious on the Panoptix type. If bridge piers or docks are involved, the advantage again goes to the Panoptix type. Both have the problem of scale in that the longer the range the smaller the fish get.

Haha for you. You got me on a couple of things though. My mental capabilities are not sufficient to image a scrolling side imaging screen produced by multi-beam phased array transducer. And side imaging is quite economical. Most fishermen can afford to have some version of it. Both the current verions of PS30 and LiveScope sell for $1495 and the one I am proposing.......probably more than that. That alone proves your point that SI will be around for the next several years. There is still room in our sport for more invention though.