The death of side imaging

[sfw1960]

Hi Robert. Thank you for your comments. I'll have to clarify my statement a bit. I find that I have to do that more and more these days. Your water is perfect for my comparison. Shallow water where you will be looking left and right farther than the depth of water you are in. Of course, this is not a real comparison. I comparing current on the market SI with futuristic Panoptix/LiveScope that doesn't exist. It's one they have the current capability to produce by adding a few more components and appropriate software.

Take the best SI on the market. Whatever brand you think is best. Say, like Humminbird. Now take whatever model of that brand you think is best. Say, maybe Solix. We'll let the water be 20 ft deep but you want to be looking right and left out to 80 or 100 ft. Now let's let an experienced, knowledgeable user, like yourself tune the unit to the optimal settings for this situation.

Now for the one I'm not calling side imaging. Yes, it would be a multi-beam phased array transducer looking left and right, like the PS30. But it needs some significant modifications for my futuristic model. It's a few elements short. There is currently a blind area near the surface on both sides so we need to add some more elements to make that part of the coverage area to get a full 180 degrees of coverage. Second the elements in it need to be upgraded to be the elements in the LiveScope xd for better detail. -OR- Take the current LiveScope xd and add two more arrays of elements. Currently it "sees" in the direction it is pointed from the surface, down under the boat and back behind the boat some, but lacks the arrays to make the rest of the 180. That's not difficult to imagine since we have screenshots and videos of the LiveScope being used. You just have to imagine 180 instead of 135 degrees. Now for the ace in the hole. How experienced or expert would the user need to be? Set the depth to Auto. Set the range to 100 ft. Get the gain to Auto Med or Auto High.

Granted, both will show you fish. On the SI you'll have to wait on the scroll, so how far the fish are behind you is more. How deep are they? That's more obvious on the Panoptix type. If bridge piers or docks are involved, the advantage again goes to the Panoptix type. Both have the problem of scale in that the longer the range the smaller the fish get.

Haha for you. You got me on a couple of things though. My mental capabilities are not sufficient to image a scrolling side imaging screen produced by multi-beam phased array transducer. And side imaging is quite economical. Most fishermen can afford to have some version of it. Both the current verions of PS30 and LiveScope sell for $1495 and the one I am proposing.......probably more than that. That alone proves your point that SI will be around for the next several years. There is still room in our sport for more invention though.

Absolutely spot on, as usual Len!

Always a pleasure to compare notes with a smart guy like yourself...

I am wondering since HB is still partnered with Navionics product and Navico already signed a deal with Garmin that JOI may have a 360 like device coming that no longer needs to be physically rotational; and it could "look" 360 degrees still.

I have SI on both ends of my rig and I am trolling sometimes as slow as .7-.8 MPH when it gets down in the lower 40's to 32ish degrees W. TMP. so when I have a bait 45-70 back, there's plenty of time for review.

Many of the break lines are pretty vicious for an inexperienced angler to run, since often I can have 10 FOW at the bow and 32 FOW off the back because the breeze is pushing me at a slight angle - and that's on a 17' craft.

Looking left I may be viewing a very steep decline and to my right it could be very abrupt to only a few feet before it's dirt.

This is a fairly old 800 kHz SI shot ( early season on a 998c HDSI) - but just to my left is 30 FOW and to the right you can see you're grounded in very large hunks of limestone, some as large as a Volkswagen Beetle. This is the channel to Lake Michigan, and not Muskegon Lake where I generally am once they've entered to winter over before the annual spring migration - just for a visual.

The range is in @ 60' L&R because I am a "prisoner" to the break lines, where the fish are choosing to herd bait and feed - for others they may want a larger range, for this technique I prefer the resolution over range.

The next few years are going to be very interesting, and YES we'll have to pay top dollar for the 'best you can get' - and that rule will remain a constant!!! LOL!

The guy that's not willing to lay out a substantial amount of coin for a setup will have to settle for the $199 they are willing to spend and a lot less features in the tool set.

[Chief Brody]

I have a solution that uses both equally: imagine a dual setup that uses a current sidescan that scans way ahead of the boat while, and when something looks interesting on the screen, you touch that spot and the livescope scans it for fish

[mobassing]

Leonard when the crappie start staging shallow and you have the PS22 to one side and LiveScope to the other so that it will act as SI would the LS on its own rotatable stick be to some advantage? You would be scanning to the side but also have the option to scan forward if you wanted now and then.

[LWINCHESTER2]

I need to come up with a stick that will work for me really bad. I'm just so crowded up front I've not been able to come up one that will mount where it has to mount and still be convenient to use. I don't want to lean and reach every time I need to turn it and my scissors mount TM is on that side (port). Starboard front has to be left open to get in and out of the boat. The last couple of days I've had to fish in the wind and it's a real pain. Not fishing today. Going to work on this and see what I can come up with.

You'd think as many crappie as I catch in the spring I'd know more about crappie than I do but I don't. Last two days have been crappie fishing. On the same day, I'll see some scattered across the bottom 40 ft deep and I'll see others roaming open water 10-15 ft deep and others oriented to structure. The roaming ones seem to want to bite. The ones on the bottom are real picky. Come and look and usually pass on biting. The ones just sitting on structure can be real picky too.

[rnvinc]

I need to come up with a stick that will work for me really bad. I'm just so crowded up front I've not been able to come up one that will mount where it has to mount and still be convenient to use. I don't want to lean and reach every time I need to turn it and my scissors mount TM is on that side (port). Starboard front has to be left open to get in and out of the boat.

You might think about sending me a Pic of the front of your boat with an explanation of how you envision this "stick" to function ...

Rickie

[LWINCHESTER2]

I'll get back to you Rickie. Think I'm about to have an idea. Might just be gas. I hope not.

[Chief Brody]

[LWINCHESTER2]

I sent Rickie some info. He's working on it or maybe a better description would be suffering through my stipulations and restrictions.

[hays47]

A servo 12 volt motor that deploys and rotates a Panoptix transducer. On its own mount stick. Would that not be an ultimate solution for rigging the Panoptix of any type ? Being somewhat familiar with crappie. What you are seeing with the crappie there is fairly similar here in Ohio in shallow lakes here. Most of our lakes max out at 60 ft.

Other than spawning season crappie here are found at depths between 12-22 foot. When sulking on bottom crappie tend to be ultra picky or very negative . When schools of crappie are scattered they are neutral mood . They are feeding but somewhat relaxed about it. When they are tight packed schools on brush or structure it can be Katy bar the door. Usually they are biting so fast. I set my second pole aside. Another hot time can be seen when they school just out from a drop off. Especially if drop off near main channel. At my home lake a long point with stumps breaks from 12' to 52' with in a few steps. This spot can be hot even in the dead of winter or summer. The crappies suspend at 12' about 40-60' out from the actual break. Odd thing is they rarely use it. When they are there a fast limit is almost a sure thing.

I only fish for two species yellow perch ( my absolute favorite ) and crappie. Anything else I catch is strictly an accident. Walleye and big gills also find a spot in my keep cooler. All other " accidents " are released. Since I have employed Panoptix. It has greatly reduced my search time.

[rocket man]

I sent Rickie some info. He's working on it or maybe a better description would be suffering through my stipulations and restrictions.

Post some pics when you get it.

[mobassing]

Leonard when I asked that of you Rickies Da Ducer is what I had in mind as it is now rotatable and I am sure that between you and him you can come up with something that can be mounted and kept within reach. I am assuming this because when I think of you and your testing and your fishing I think of a boat that could look like something somewhat from out of the future with all of the screens, wires boxes, etc. Keep doing what you do because I have learned so much from reading your posts. Am purchasing a new to me boat that has Hummingbird Mega units with SI at wheel and forward. I am leaving these and going to buy a LiveScope for front of boat and at this time I am kind of leaning towards a 93Plus to power the LS. When boat is here I then again might pick your brain about the 93 unit or maybe something else. Thanks.

[DonnieG]

I think of a boat that could look like something somewhat from out of the future with all of the screens, wires boxes,[/COLOR] etc.

Maybe a Russian Trawler.. Don't see how Rickie & Leonard keep from getting interference..

Rickie's da'ducer is great. I have one of his originals...

[LWINCHESTER2]

Leonard when I asked that of you Rickies Da Ducer is what I had in mind as it is now rotatable and I am sure that between you and him you can come up with something that can be mounted and kept within reach. I am assuming this because when I think of you and your testing and your fishing I think of a boat that could look like something somewhat from out of the future with all of the screens, wires boxes, etc. Keep doing what you do because I have learned so much from reading your posts. Am purchasing a new to me boat that has Hummingbird Mega units with SI at wheel and forward. I am leaving these and going to buy a LiveScope for front of boat and at this time I am kind of leaning towards a 93Plus to power the LS. When boat is here I then again might pick your brain about the 93 unit or maybe something else. Thanks.

I used to work in technology. New boats need to be built with a power and wiring closet.

[sfw1960]

I used to work in technology. New boats need to be built with a power and wiring closet.

[shelfish]

There is never enough room in a boat no matter how big it seems at first...

[Doc Samson]

I used to work in technology. New boats need to be built with a power and wiring closet.

[mobassing]

I fished with you one time as you were practicing for a tournament and had Marv Miller from Bettendorf showing you around the different pools. I was so amazed at that time what you could do with electronics. They have come so far since then I am sure you are still on top of it. Good fishing.

[sfw1960]

Doc Bruce is INDEED usually on top of it - and one of the 1st to offer training for new stuff.

[LWINCHESTER2]

I bought 2 of Doc's dvd's when I got HDS units. First class. I think the door is open for a Panoptix, LiveScope and ActiveCaptain manual/dvd.

[Doc Samson]

I fished with you one time as you were practicing for a tournament and had Marv Miller from Bettendorf showing you around the different pools. I was so amazed at that time what you could do with electronics. They have come so far since then I am sure you are still on top of it. Good fishing.

Marv was an unique man. He took me on some amazing boat rides.