What no one has mentioned here is the Corp of Engineers. They control the level of the lakes, not the DNR. The Corps only concern is flood control on these lakes...not spawning habitat, grass, recreation, or fishing. Stocking....well thats another story.
Originally Posted by skeeterator
Has anyone suggested that the KDFWR stock wiper and walleye to help control the Asian carp population? I am sure the INDNR can give them some tips.
I don't remember exactly when, but approximately 10 years ago the way the corp managed Patoka completely changed. Back in the day, the water level was very consistent and only fluctuated 3-4 feet as they adjusted from winter pool to summer pool every year. That stable water level is what allowed the grass to grow so well. When they first started to allow the lake to flood, there were no bushes as there are now, just briar patches and hay grass that grew all the way to the water line. Now that the lake floods every year, there are bushes along the bank and the shore is more eroded like Monroe. That's why people think the lake has totally dried up when it is actually close to normal pool. About the same time as the water level started going haywire and the grass went away, the DNR started putting walleye and stripers and white bass and who knows what else in the lake, I guess to eat the evil shad. All of that caused one of the healthiest bass fisheries in the state to become what it is today. A walleye fishery that no one will utilize and a place to ride jet ski's. Thanks government agencies.
Steve Sendelweck
Phoenix 920/Mercury 250 ProXS
Once the,temp hits 80, only way you can catch walleye is from 1 hr before dark to 11-12 pm. It’s the most effective time they bite. That lake sucks for day time walleye fishing and now I catch a ton of 5 lb white perch. Where the heck did they all come from?
I have caught a few perch myself up there the last couple years. Fished all my life and never caught one, but in the last couple years I’ve caught 4 or 5
This is a great discussion. These bigger tournament results numbers just don't lie. I get weather conditions, fishing pressure, water levels, habitat changes, and stocking decisions all have an affect on bass catches in one way or another. But the overall weights in bigger well documented tournaments are terrible. In my years of reading various magazines about fishing, I've read where when grass disappears from a fishery, the fish are still there but just harder to catch and adjustments need to be made to catch them consistently. That may be true. But the average fisherman is so much more educated than 20 years ago. Somebody would figure it out and dominate if it was just a presentation issue. And like someone else said, it's either really quality fish or nothing. I fished last Saturday before the rain. It was windy, overcast and pre-frontal conditions. I figured we would catch them decent or at least have some good bites. Neither of us had a bite all day until before we were going to leave around 2:30 and I caught a 4 pounder. But that was it.
There are several theories above that are all well thought out. But could it just be that the lake is in a down cycle? I've read where man-made lakes (and all bodies of water to certain extent) have cycles and, as much as we want to blame DNR and COE, this was going to happen anyway. Is there any possibility of this?
Patoka has gone through cycles over the years. In the 80's there were 10 pounders being caught when the lake was fairly new. Then in the 90's you could catch dozens of short fish and never catch one over 15". Then the shad population took off and things got good for a few years. Lots of fish in all size classes and plenty of 3-5 pound fish. But I have never seen it like it is now where you simply don't catch anything at all. Its possible this is just part of the natural cycle, but there have been a lot of unnatural things like stocking take place at the same time as the decline of the bass fishing. As far as the fish still being there and we just need to figure out how to catch them, I don't buy it. There are enough people who fish that lake several days a week, somebody would have figured it out by now.
Steve Sendelweck
Phoenix 920/Mercury 250 ProXS
There is a lot of truth to this...for the first few years that is... the fish that were already there aren’t going to die when the grass disappears. They’re still there. The problem comes when we have 3 or 4 years in a row with no grass. The reproduction cycle of life gets hammered. Spawns and survival rates are poor. Now we don’t have as many fish to replace the ones that get cycled out of the lake via old age, catch and keep, tournament mortality, etc. That leads us to where we are today with Patoka.
I'm interested to see the BFL weights this coming Spring. I can't imagine a whole lot changing. Weather/water conditions could change location/activity levels things but if there are truly that few fish in the lake, then the standings will be painful to look at. It will definitely be interesting. As always, somebody will catch them better than everyone else. The person that either gets lucky or makes all the right decisions and executes will win or place high. But it's so bad right now that I fear those are the only folks that will make a check. When there are that few fish, the majority that fish hard, skilled and are gritty and prepared still won't necessarily get a bite. I'm not making excuses for anyone but that may very well be what happens. I can't imagine 150 boats pre-practicing and competing on that lake right now. Rough!!!
What ever the reason for the decline, I think we can all agree that if the INDNR was stocking black bass like they do hybrid and walleye the lakes would be much better.
The link below provides the stocking data for INDNR lakes. Check out the Largemouth Bass totals vs hybrid and walleye.
https://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5457...uPC1TQ06bm-HUw
What I dont understand is how this got to be the standard and what it will take to get it changed. There cannot be that many fisherman in this state that support this type of stocking program can there?
Agree. Yes there are guys up there targeting the walleyes and hybrids, but the vast majority of the fishing boats on the lake are targeting Bass. If you there is money In the kitty to do a stocking, put some damn bass in the lake.
Do we have anyone on these boards that work for the DNR In some fashion?? I would love to hear what the word is behind the scenes on these decisions.
I hammered them pretty hard on facebook several month back and the response was pretty lame.
Basically they said they do surveys when they decided what and where to stock... They also mentioned that the cost and logistics of stocking LMB were very prohibiting.
Last edited by Gsmith223; 11-12-2018 at 12:17 PM.
The bass would take care of themselves (spawn and protection wise) if there was more grass in the lake. The erratic water level fluctuations definitely don't help anything.
The walleye and hybrids are stocked to help combat the gizzard shad , not for people to catch.
Well I hate to tell them that they’re wasting their time.... you’re probably right though.
You can’t stock 15 to 20 million walleye fry per year as soon as they hatch and are only no bigger than 0.02 inches long to survive without weed cover. Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by cevans; 11-12-2018 at 02:36 PM.
I hate to be so hard on us but I'm sure an experienced biologist reads these types of threads and chuckles at our unfounded theories and analysis. Just like how we do when hearing people talk like they know everything about our particular job or specialty area. There are stakeholders wanting different things and political pressures supporting each. Having said that, the lack of vegetation is what continues to irk me. That is what supports the life cycle of everything in some way.
They get eaten as soon as they hit the water, I've seen it first hand. I've been at the ramp when the truck showed up from the fish hatchery and watched the feeding frenzy. The driver said it happens on every lake he delivers to. The fingerlings hit the water out of the discharge hose and all types of fish show up from out of nowhere and tear them up. He didn't have any numbers of how many survived the first 24 hours but it can't be many.
I think we need to get over the lack of vegetation. The water levels fluctuate to much on the corp lakes. There will always be cycles of grass and no grass, nothing can be done about that. It might even be a red herring in this situation.
I think focusing on the stocking of LMB and how to make that successful along with adding more cover to the lakes is the best bet.
I know the IBF is doing as much as they can, I just wonder if the money being spent on the stocking of the hybrid & walleye could be used to stock LMB. I bet a school of 5-7 lb LMB could put a hurtin on the gizzard shad population
I have been watching and reading this thread with great interest. I am at best an average bass fisherman. I fish some small club events and have fishing some team events over the years. Like everyone on this board I have seen the bass fishing at Patoka deteriorate over the last several years. I agree that the lack of vegetation has had an adverse affect. Some want to blame the DNR for not stocking bass while stocking other species of fish. I wonder if the DNR cares at all about bass fishing or bass fishermen at all. I wonder if the DNR is not trying to discourage bass fishing. I wonder if there is not a certain level of disdain for bass fishing and bass fishermen. I have never spoken with a CO so this is pure speculation. I wonder this because there is a percentage of bass fishermen (although I believe is a relatively low percentage) that completely disregard the rules of the lakes such as running idle zones such as Big Patoka, Lick Fork, Middle Fork, and Pine Grove. I am just asking the question. Could this be a reason why the DNR shows so little interest in what we love to do?
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