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  1. #1
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    Image showing shape of Panoptix Live transducer beam?

    The forward view is rather intuitive but the down is causing me to scratch my head some. I was fishing some brush about 20 feet this past weekend and I thought as I moved my jig from right to left across the screen I could watch it swim. Instead once it got to the left of the TM I couldn't see it. I'm thinking a drawing of the cone might help?

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    #2
    I don't know the cone width. I don't know that it's accurate to refer to Multi-beam phased array reception using 2d representations. For example, in terms of cone, it seems to me that the reception area (cone if you will) is wider close to the transducer and gets more narrow the farther away you get. It's much easier to see your lure at 20 and 30 feet than at 60 ft. To see it at 60 feet (and you can) your pointing has to be near perfect. Close in that is not the case. I have 10 and 8 degree 2d transducers and keeping the lure in the cone is tricky. It's more tricky with LiveScope. It's quite a bit easier with the PS21 and PS22 but you still have to work at it.
    My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LWINCHESTER2 View Post
    I don't know the cone width. I don't know that it's accurate to refer to Multi-beam phased array reception using 2d representations. For example, in terms of cone, it seems to me that the reception area (cone if you will) is wider close to the transducer and gets more narrow the farther away you get. It's much easier to see your lure at 20 and 30 feet than at 60 ft. To see it at 60 feet (and you can) your pointing has to be near perfect. Close in that is not the case. I have 10 and 8 degree 2d transducers and keeping the lure in the cone is tricky. It's more tricky with LiveScope. It's quite a bit easier with the PS21 and PS22 but you still have to work at it.
    That makes sense and is what I was seeing in forward view. What has me scratching my head some is why I can't see my jig to the left of the transducer in down view but easily see it on the right. It's mounted on the starboard side on the forward part of the motor so I don't see where the anything could be blocking it. THe transducer appears to be below the tm foot.

  4. Member Todd Driscoll's Avatar
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    #4
    I consulted with the lead Panoptix engineer. He said that yes the beam does get more narrow the farther out it is. The beam is most sensitive on the two main axis so as you move off axis, it gets weaker and so when you move off both axis, it is even weaker in those corners. This has the effect of making more of an elongated oval shape and gets pretty complex to diagram.
    Garmin Pro Team

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Driscoll View Post
    I consulted with the lead Panoptix engineer. He said that yes the beam does get more narrow the farther out it is. The beam is most sensitive on the two main axis so as you move off axis, it gets weaker and so when you move off both axis, it is even weaker in those corners. This has the effect of making more of an elongated oval shape and gets pretty complex to diagram.
    That's about what I figured it looked like. I'm going to mark a brushpile today with a marker and see what the actual left/right usage is. I can also tell if for some reason the TM foot is blocking some of the beam. I assume that when in down mode a person should be able to tell what side of the boat a target is on.

    First though I have to find a marker. I haven't had one in the boat since heading sensors came out :-)

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    #6
    The Livescope beam is subject to the same beam-shaping as radar for example. The lobe shape will be similar to the diagram. The actual beam width expands of course, but the RETURN is what matters and it depends on the power returned from an echo. Which decreases on each side of the lobe, giving the effect of beam narrowing with range..

    Tom
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  7. Member Deeznuts's Avatar
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    #7
    What I was told, from Garmin... for the livescope forward view, for every 10 foot interval, the transducer width is 3.6 feet. So, at the 20 foot mark, your view is capturing an image, that is within 7.2 feet width range. The formula is (20 × .018 × the number of feet).... so, if you mark a brush pile 30 ft in front of you...
    20 × .018 x 30ft = 10.8 feet

    So, the brush pile captured, is within a 10.8 ft width range, 30 foot in front of the boat.
    "There are 3 types of people, those who can count, and those who can't"

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    #8
    Does anyone know that if software changes the beam pattern/width when switched from front to down (or vice versa) using the same transducer?

    In other words....is a PS-30 just a PS-31 turned sideways?

    Ive never tried pointing my 21 straight down but always wondered how it would behave
    Last edited by Chief Brody; 11-04-2018 at 11:36 AM.

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    #9
    I think Todd's statement from the engineers is more useful. My experience is consistent with that. Very close to the transducer fining your lure is very delicate. Farther out say to around 40 feet, it is much easier. As you go beyond that 60, 70, 80 in order to see your lure you have to be exactly dead on with the pointing. Had a blast today catching spotted bass. Caught one at 90 ft away that was 10 ft deep. I knew two things when I saw it. #1-The pointing was exactly on target as to where to cast. #2- It would be a good fish to show up that well 90 ft away. Even better, my cast was short by about 10 ft. He came and got it anyway.
    Last edited by LWINCHESTER2; 11-04-2018 at 06:51 PM.
    My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
    Ive never tried pointing my 21 straight down but always wondered how it would behave
    We are waiting on you to do that and report back.
    My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.

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    #11
    Well, the river will have to come way down, and a string of pleasant days for that to happen now.

    Minor miracle

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeznuts View Post
    What I was told, from Garmin... for the livescope forward view, for every 10 foot interval, the transducer width is 3.6 feet. So, at the 20 foot mark, your view is capturing an image, that is within 7.2 feet width range. The formula is (20 × .018 × the number of feet).... so, if you mark a brush pile 30 ft in front of you...
    20 × .018 x 30ft = 10.8 feet

    So, the brush pile captured, is within a 10.8 ft width range, 30 foot in front of the boat.
    Numbers! I can wrap my head around that ....... thanks.

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    #13
    Garmin told me the beam angle for the Live view and to just divide the distance you are looking by 3 to know the area you are looking at. There is a difference in the power as your target approaches the side of the cone. My ducer is on a stick and I can tweek the direction and watch the target light up bright when aimed right at it. Don

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by D Johnson View Post
    Garmin told me the beam angle for the Live view and to just divide the distance you are looking by 3 to know the area you are looking at. There is a difference in the power as your target approaches the side of the cone. My ducer is on a stick and I can tweek the direction and watch the target light up bright when aimed right at it. Don
    I was doing that after looking at the formula above. That is much easier to interpret on the water.

    Like Lwinchester I'm not seeing that to be an absolute but it's a start.

    Now if I could just understand why their down view is apparently still front/back I'd be in business :-)