The N.T. documents are very historical writings in the view of the N.T. writers, others throughout the first , second and third century did not copy the N.T. because they thought they were inspired ,but because they thought they were true.
Think about that .
for the first 300 years of Christianity , the writings did not depend on Torah (Old Testament) , but an event. (Resurrection).
Both. Inspired and true.
There is only one writer (not writers) of the NT, same One as the OT as claimed by Scripture. The Holy Spirit, commonly referred to as God by Trinitarians, speaks:
John17:17, "Your word is truth." inspired and therefore true.
2 Pet 1:20, "For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Scripture speaks for itself. Scripture simply stands (forever--any century).
"historical writings" would be a low view of Scripture, lumping it with all other "historical writings". The high view would be Scripture is not merely "historical writing" but inspired by God. Scripture is a class unto itself and exclusive, as it claims.
The divinely inspired OT was the script that pointed to the coming Crucifixion and Resurrection (Messiah). The divinely inspired NT is the script acted out--fulfilled. Plenty Law or Gospel (the two main doctrines) in either Testaments. Same writer, same focus-the Cross.
Last edited by msethsmile; 10-27-2018 at 10:57 AM.
BTW--events and God's word (OT promises and NT events) are the same. When God makes a promise--it is as good as done, already accomplished, completed. Predictive perfect (completed) tense:
Prior to the battle of Jericho God spoke to Joshua:
"Then the LORD said to Joshua, "See, I HAVE delivered Jericho into your hands...'" Josh 6:2 (my emphasis) done deal.
God's promise of salvation is the same. Done deal.
I always liked this quote. I'm not a learned fellow. I don't have access to the original documents, and couldn't read them if I did. About all I know is what I read in the Bible, and what little of it I absorb and remember. But this one fact always really impressed me.
I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren't true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn't keep a lie for three weeks. You're telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.
(Charles Colson. Convicted Watergate conspirator, author, speaker, founder of "Prison Fellowship Ministries," and sinner saved by the grace of God.)
Last edited by CajunBass; 10-28-2018 at 10:09 AM.
not to mention 500 other witnesses...
Self-appointed orthodoxy watchdogs plague the internet almost as much as porn.Say something outside their particular theological tradition and they’ll damn your soul to an eternity in hell as fast as you can click “post quick reply"...……………
You might read up on Christian Orthodoxy before you go pointing out things you know little about .
It is very easy to cherry pick scriptures to make a theological point, I could do that too Its just not worth my time, been there done that for more years than I care to remember. Its easy to regurgitate all the things parents, grandparents, teachers, pastors and other influential people in our lives has buried into our brains...…… (not that all of them, or even the majority of them are false)
I have been accused in this thread for having a "low view of scripture" LOL . that's ok, keep on judging my view of scripture...…………...I think one of those cherry trees has a scripture that says something along the lines of "Do not Judge, lest ye be judged" Oh, wait, that probably doesn't apply to the "self appointed Orthodoxy watch dogs"
Here is some "cherry picked" scripture, for ALL scripture is God-breathed and useful... and true as Holeshot pointed out.
Romans 14:1-13 English Standard Version (ESV)
Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another
14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master[a] that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess[b] to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Do Not Cause Another to Stumble
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
Scripture simply speaks. Don't argue with me, argue with Scripture (the sole norm by which all doctrines are judged).
#1 rule of interpretation: context, context, context
Given verses about not judging--what do you do with these? (Scripture cannot be broken Jn 10:35):
Matt 18:18 "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Jn 20:23 "If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
Acts 17:11 "Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great earnest and examined the Scripture every day to see if what Paul said was true." --They judged Paul!
So we're not to judge or we are to judge. Which one?
Answer: We are to judge not by man's standards (tainted by sin-unreliable) but by Scripture's standards. The Bereans judged Paul on the basis of Scripture and they were counted as 'noble'.
In a strictly common sense mode: You have a blatant heretic in your congregation and you are not to judge. The heretic remains in your assembly. That's Scriptural (Rom 16:17)? At some point, if the heretic is unrepentant, he must be cast out of the congregation. Get this: This is an act of love. Love for God's Word, love for the congregation, and yes--love for the heretic (see his ways and repent). "Repent and live." (Ez 18:32B).
Sorry about the long post, but talking about church discipline in 2 sentences is pretty tough.
Judging is also about the heart. Do we use it as a club or out of love? Sometimes a fine line--at least for me. I was involved in excommunicating a person once. Not a pleasant experience.
Last edited by msethsmile; 10-30-2018 at 09:41 AM.
Scripture simply doesn't agree with post #1. Period.
The author(s) of Scripture is not a small doctrine. It goes to divine inspiration--core doctrine.
Last edited by msethsmile; 10-30-2018 at 09:51 AM.
Scripture certainly agrees with post #1Originally Posted by msethsmile
The Gospels were written 25-39 years after the events they record. (that's historical from their perspective) One Gospel was written by Luke who was not even an apostle (yet inspired by God to record it).
The scribes who copied the N.T. "original, autographs" documents did not know at the time they were inspired...………………..The bible was not canonized until the 4th century. Get a grip on history before responding. With your reasoning, many more books non-canical books would be in our bible today.
They didn't have Zerox copiers back in the day :) These scribes heard the scrolls unrolled and read aloud in the churches of their area and believed the message when they were read and wanted to copy the "originals, autographs" to let others know the Good news they heard. These scribes knew the persecution they were under and probably by divine intervention, began copying as fast as they could. and wanted as many copies of the originals as they could get done.
Please don't type stuff that is patently false. study to show yourself approved. Your legalism gets in the way. I do not know you, but I am sure by what you type on this forum you are a believer.
oops--
Last edited by msethsmile; 11-02-2018 at 09:35 AM.
Holeshot and/or others:
Whether you're new to the site or and old hand-- Going back and forth, tit-for-tat is probably not the safest evangelism tool. My only advice is reside in Scripture, reside in grace.
There is one person who applauds when Christians argue...
Last edited by msethsmile; 11-02-2018 at 09:34 AM.
I did not intend to nor believe my posts were argumentative but.
Advice acknowledged and taken.
Bless you.
Holeshot--'tit-for-tat' referring to myself
Thank you for the clarification.
I took it that by using my forum name first you may have felt that I was instrumental in helping the Deceiver in his work.
It is my intention to " put on the whole armor of God" while resisting the Evil One.
In the future, I will attempt to consider how a post may be perceived in a effort to be a responsible participant.
This forum is a great idea for us on the BBC and I appreciate the privilege of reading and participating.
Thanks again.
Last edited by 1Holeshot; 11-13-2018 at 06:33 PM.
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