Flip Pitch and Punch. Help Please

[BassinJax]

Do you only flip and punch when the sun is high and bright?
A local told me when it’s cloudy that fish are roaming and not ever in the pads or anything that makes a canopy?

when do you pitch over flip?

Is a 7’ rod ever adequate enough for either ? And if so under what circumstances

[Frogchunker]

I flip heavy cover 90% of the time,you can catch them sunny,or cloudy...early,and late in the day.I like at least a 7' 6" flippin stick,my favorite is a 8ft..7 ft rod would work,if its heavy enough.

[Jeff Hahn]

Do you only flip and punch when the sun is high and bright?
A local told me when it’s cloudy that fish are roaming and not ever in the pads or anything that makes a canopy?

when do you pitch over flip?

Is a 7’ rod ever adequate enough for either ? And if so under what circumstances

In clear water, the fish may roam more when it's overcast. But, in dirtier water, they are going to be tight or very close to cover. They might be on the outside edges of the cover when it's cloudy, but they are still closely relating to it. When I flip it's mostly in dirty water.

[Nowater2shallow]

not exactly true pad fish most of the time stay in the pads, i have seen them move to the outside edges during a rain, or if there are weed patches on the outside they tend to roam them with low boat traffic or over cast if the shad/baitfish are present. a 7' rod will work i use a 7'3'' to pitch and 8' rod to flip and work pads with

[BassinJax]

Thanks Guys

I never even considered water clarity

[Casslaw]

I flip and pitch pads, grass, even hydrilla in the middle of the lake that the FWC hasn’t found yet. I use 2 7’ rods and 1 7’3” any longer is of no use to me because I’m 5’10” and my little Triton is pretty low. Any longer than 7’3” and I hit the top of the Kissimmee grass or my gunnels.

I think my favorite flipping stick is an OLD Jimmy Houston model, it pulls them out of anything Ive run across in Florida. I keep a creature bait on that pole, on the 7’3” I keep a Jig, usually with a craw trailer and the 3rd pole, 7 footer, I keep a pegged Texas rig for times I can cast more than a few feet or to follow up a miss. All with 65lb Suffix 832.

If the fish are in there it doesn’t usually take long to figure it out. I’m sure water clarity plays a role but I try to pay attention to how the bottom feels and if there are gar around. I don’t usually catch a lot of big bass where the big gar are occupying the weeds and I don’t personally like a soft, mucky bottom. If I use a longer pole I hit the tops of the grass, sucks being short!

[DrewFlu33]

I'm in Minnesota and I've heard those Florida bass are just a different animal, so my thoughts on the matter might not be worth the cost of the bandwidth they take up. The replies above basically nailed my thoughts but hey, I can't help myself.

I will say that I never "flip" in the conventional sense of the word - I'm either too clumsy or the fish are too smart up here (and given that I live in MN, it's got to be the former) - but instead always use the word "flip" when I mean pitch.

Basically repeating what has been said, those fish may move to the outside when they're in areas where the vegetation is isolated and become more aggressive when it's overcast or raining to where something like a swim jig, chatterbait, or frog may be a better technique to try. That said, if they're fish that live in vegetation, you can catch them by flipping and pitching to them. If the vegetation isn't as isolated and it's one of those power-fishing type weather days, I've often found that fish will relate more to holes and gaps in the vegetation while you'll often find them buried in the thick stuff if the sun is high in the sky. I look at it a lot like dock fishing where you'd expect the fish to be in the darkest shade they can find on sunny days, and may be only loosely relating to the cover (and ambush opportunity) the dock provides on darker days.

Even at that, never say never. There have been many times where it's been a cloudy or rainy day and I've found them absolutely buried in it. I've also caught my best fish of the day many times first thing in the morning up in the vegetation when I've resisted the urge to throw a topwater and instead gone right to the spots I've identified as the best during practice, despite the intuition that would tell you that those fish are roaming around feeding actively and don't get into the vegetation until the sun gets higher.

Jeff makes a really good point about water clarity. It seems that the fish in dirty water like to be next to something at a minimum, and are often in the thick of it. Part of me thinks it's security, part of me thinks it's to sort of keep their bearings (insert example about what would you do if in a dark room...feel for a wall or something else to orient yourself), and part of me thinks that the fish use the filtering properties of vegetation to help them see their prey (and the oxygen certainly doesn't hurt). In clear water I agree they seem more prone to roam on cloudy or rainy days. Those same fish also really like to bury up in the stuff when the sun's out, and that presents an excellent opportunity to pitch deep vegetation.

Cass's point about bottom composition is probably very important for Florida. Around my parts, the vegetation usually grows in what would likely constitute a hard bottom in most places in Florida so it's not as much of a concern here at least insofar as feeling like you're wasting time by flipping in certain areas. Rather, the clue that usually tells me I'm wasting time is slimy algae accumulating on the vegetation - either work a frog through that stuff, or leave and find clean weeds. Here we'll talk about hard bottom in the context of actual rocks being mixed into or running up to the edge of a weed bed. It's all relative though. One thing I've started doing that can pay huge dividends down the road is dropping waypoints every single time I spot bluegill beds; I reserve a specific waypoint logo that I use only for bluegill beds. This is useful in early summer as bluegills will return to the same spots and large post-spawn bass will often hang around bluegill beds to pick off an easy meal, but it's maybe even more useful later in the season as it identifies places with harder bottom mixed in with the weeds that become much harder to locate as the vegetation gets thicker. I'd have to believe this is something that would apply in Florida re: finding hard bottom without having to actually fish around searching for it.

A 7 foot heavy rod will work just fine. I prefer a 7'6" (the one I use most is an Abu Veritas that's actually marketed as a frog rod), but I'm also taller (6'2") and have just gotten used to it as I've made so many pitches with it. I've even got to the point where it's my most accurate rod when pitching around docks.

For what it's worth, I had to go back and change the word "flip" to "pitch" multiple times when typing that.

[Casslaw]

Yeah Drew you summed it up! When I say soft bottom I mean areas where the grass has died, or the pad roots have accumulated so much muck that you’re pulling in dark, dead weeds every flip or pitch. Kissimmee got like that in a lot of areas before the drawdown of the 90’s when we were in a drought.

Our FWC likes to kill anything they see but fail to realize they’re taking the best habitat for all species of fish (including baitfish) and turning it into gunk that sinks to the bottom and makes the water quality just horrible...this is when I see lots of large gar and an abundant amount of mudfish/bowfin.

I try to stick to vegetation that is healthy, and hopefully there is multiple types of vegetation together. That and any type of deeper water nearby. I forget that I’m in Florida, and a lot of people aren’t, so I use terms that mean something else up north. I don’t flip and pitch in areas that if I got out of the boat I’d sink to my knees in mud, I prefer a harder bottom.

I think in the clearer the water the bass will go thick to blend in and be able to ambush better, and they may roam a little more in dingier water but I’ve been proven wrong many times. I can’t always make sense why they’re there but I try!

[DrewFlu33]

We have issues with homeowners, homeowners' associations, and in some cases the DNR spraying weeds as well so I'm definitely familiar with some of what you're dealing with. It's worst around the Metro were the DNR is concerned about certain invasives and where there are a lot more homeowners who worry about their tootsies touching a piece of vegetation when they're playing in the lake. Your comment about water quality is spot on - all of these lakes that get sprayed have nasty water all summer long. Of course in the spring before they spray the water is usually really nice. The aforementioned homeowners and their tootsies have no clue that they're the reason the water gets stained and smelly in the summer.

[Casslaw]

I couldn’t agree more Drew...how can it be so hard to understand that the GREEN “weeds” filter the water and killing them makes 6 inches of muck/silt on the bottom that lowers water quality and you haven’t left enough to filter the lake anymore. The blind leading the blind.

I really wish I could find a position in my state’s FWC and attempt to change their way of thinking.

[Jeff Hahn]

I agree guys. One set of lakes in south Akron is sprayed several times a year to kill the vegetation, funded by the lake home owners association. Yet, if the same was done to woods and fields, many of the same and upper class home owners would be appalled at such wide spread habitat destruction.

[Casslaw]

Out of sight out of mind...little do they know that controlled burns are great for the woods and can often stop widespread fires by eliminating the tinder. I don’t know why/how I get so mad about this subject when I know I can do nothing about it.

I grew up on a small 10 acre lake that was full of large fish since I brought them all home from other lakes. Since she passed in March someone that lives on the lake has sprayed and it drives me nuts! Dead weeds everywhere that are now sinking to the bottom, the water quality has gone to crap and I can literally see the line where they sprayed when I take my little jonboat out to fish her lake.

Im actively looking for who it is so I can catch them in the act and call FWC...I have no idea what they’re spraying but it certainly is killing everything it touches; grass, pads, cattails all dead within 5-6 days of the first spray. Burns me up!