Minn Kota Ultrex - Which older Humminbird units work best with it? Features vs $$?

[Fishfreq]

I'm updating an older bass boat with an Ultrex trolling motor with iPilot link, but if I do that, I can't afford to buy the latest and greatest Humminbird to interface with it. Gotta pick up an older screen, for now.

Finding it rather confusing, Helix vs Onix vs Solix. 8", 10" or 12"? The price ramps up sky high real quick and I just don't have a feel for where the 'sweet spot' is in the price vs performance graph?

I've used the first gen Humminbird side scan and found it a really valuable tool for discovering off-map structures and habitat and caught lots of bass using it, so I'd like to take advantage of doing something like being able to drop a waypoint on a rockpile or ledge I just sidescanned 102 feet off my port side, and from the screen instruct my Ultrex to take me 30 feet to the right of that and move slowly on a path offset to a trail I just created, while I rig this rod or eat this sandwich. Is that too much to ask?

This is just one instance that came to mind; I'd love to hear some more of y'all's stories, real stories of how your linked electronics saved the day. Does drawing your own Autochart live maps with the Lakemaster feature provide something special with the Ultrex, or could I do without it? How about Mega side imaging and the Ultrex? Is the touch screen a big improvement over joysticking a cursor over and locking a waypoint? My first gen side imaging Humminbird in 2006 was pretty fantastic, in detail, compared to a BUNCH of Lowrance units I tried over the last half decade, so anything newer will be leaps and bounds better I'm sure.

Which units don't work AT ALL with an Ultrex? Which give SOME of this functionality, and which give ALL of the features? I'm sure this is a sliding scale, and I'd love to build a sticky; a table that could show the year Humminbird, model and so forth, and the exact link features that unit can perform. Your feedback, any and all, would be greatly appreciated, and put to good use------<')))><

[bobcoy]

You were a man of few words till this post! I will have to digest much of this before commenting. However you should be able to get full functionality out of any Helix model.( with Ethernet capability) Some 5's and 7's are not. Basically anything that has had software updates in the past year should give you that. Bob

[Wallace]

7 is capable but it has to be st least a g2n to newtwork to it. With that said I would go the 7 route you don’t get mega but you do get almost all the rest of the goodies like ac live so you can use follow the contour. Used is used in my humble opinion. With a new unit you get a new warranty .

[bobcoy]

Now that you have the electronics figured out. The next thing should be your mapping. To get full use of the link you need a Lakemaster HD map of your waters or Autochart maps made. You should be able to handle your scenario easily with an SI unit of course. If you list lakes someone will be able to tell you what is available. Also the type fishing you do and we can give you an idea of how to take full advantage of your system. Some things work out best with autopilot along with cruise control. Some with follow the contour and some with spotlock. Bob

[Fishfreq]

Lol thank you Bobcoy, been on a bass fishing hiatus for a little while, not by choice, too dang busy life, and recently picked up an '01 Triton TR-20, Merc 225 Opti I couldn't pass up. It has PINPOINT electronics and desperately needs updating!

Is it really that simple? Any of the modern helix will do it all? I had a 7 or 8 inch hummer before so this time I'd like to go 10" or maybe two smaller ones? I like full screen SI. Is chirp that important, other than you need them all to be chirp to share chirp data? Which models can actually control an Ultrex steering and trails?

I'm a bass fisherman in Northern California, so I'm often fishing shallow weedy natural lakes and the Delta and the next trip I'm chasing spotted bass in 100+ feet.

[Fishfreq]

7 is capable but it has to be st least a g2n to newtwork to it. With that said I would go the 7 route you don’t get mega but you do get almost all the rest of the goodies like ac live so you can use follow the contour. Used is used in my humble opinion. With a new unit you get a new warranty .

I too like new Wallace, but I don't mind buying used to get bigger units and save dough because I'm about to dish out 27 large on a new 36v Ultrex. So many people selling and upgrading out there, was just hoping to find something a few seasons old that doesn't sacrifice too many features.

Besides, I've had good results with Humminbird service, so I have no fear. Should I? I really liked my SI in '06, and isn't Mega SOOO much better? The stuff SI painted back then was nothing less than amazing, and several Lowrances I've tried in recent years have paled in comparison. Yes I'd like to have the Ultrex follow contours with ac live - heard there are some units that don't draw contour lines with ac live, yes, no?

[Wallace]

Well if you like old si you’ll drool over mega. Me personally I’ve got a helix 10 mega g2n, an as360tm(360) and just purcheasd a terrova 80 lb i-Pilot link. So believe me I feel your pain.

[Wayne P.]

I too like new Wallace, but I don't mind buying used to get bigger units and save dough because I'm about to dish out 27 large on a new 36v Ultrex. So many people selling and upgrading out there, was just hoping to find something a few seasons old that doesn't sacrifice too many features.

Besides, I've had good results with Humminbird service, so I have no fear. Should I? I really liked my SI in '06, and isn't Mega SOOO much better? The stuff SI painted back then was nothing less than amazing, and several Lowrances I've tried in recent years have paled in comparison. Yes I'd like to have the Ultrex follow contours with ac live - heard there are some units that don't draw contour lines with ac live, yes, no?

All Helix units that are G2 or G2N have built-in Auto Chart Live. So does the ONIX and SOLIX. No other units have it.

Follow the contour is done via Ethernet so you need an Ethernet capable unit for that.
IF you want both, the minimum unit is the Helix 7's in the G2N versions, BUT the Helix 7's don't have MEGA Imaging. That starts with the G2N Helix 9.
The SOLIX has MEGA Imaging---ONIX does not.

[ezfishn]

The link below will show various units and their capability with the new Bluetooth TMs:

https://www.humminbird.com/support/f...901.1537329407

[Fishfreq]

All Helix units that are G2 or G2N have built-in Auto Chart Live. So does the ONIX and SOLIX. No other units have it.

Follow the contour is done via Ethernet so you need an Ethernet capable unit for that.
IF you want both, the minimum unit is the Helix 7's in the G2N versions, BUT the Helix 7's don't have MEGA Imaging. That starts with the G2N Helix 9.
The SOLIX has MEGA Imaging---ONIX does not.

So the question I have Wayne, is autochart live really worth it, right now? Can autochart show subtle details of a spot, like a clump of rocks?

I say that because when I looked at the awesome detail of my 2006 SI, drawing rocks, logs, tires, etc., it seems like ACL pales in comparison, from the YT vids I've seen. Yes the purpose is different - we're trying to fill in the intricate details of the lake bed that the mapping cards left out. Aren't we close to the point when ACL could store images of every single stone and branch on that topo map? When I would side-scan a hump, I'd often see clearly that on that hump, there was a pile of bigger rocks, branches, brush, etc. It'd never fail that if I isolated my casts to that sweet spot, a bass would be tappin' on my jig shortly. It was THE important detail that SI revealed so beautifully. I guess I've got to waypoint sweet spots-on-spots myself now?

So would I be missing out on something big if I did NOT go with a helix unit? What if I got an older 1198c SI? No Mega, no ACL right? I was thinkin' of some kinda combo on the driver's console that wouldn't cost $5,000-$6,000: Like an old 1198c purely for fish-finding, and then a Helix 9 Mega SI for ACL and major SI work? How about a pair of Helix 9's? one to split screen Mega SI and down regular sonar, and another 9 for ACL? A pair of them is less than a Solix 12 and it's more real estate right?

[Fishfreq]

Well if you like old si you’ll drool over mega. Me personally I’ve got a helix 10 mega g2n, an as360tm(360) and just purcheasd a terrova 80 lb i-Pilot link. So believe me I feel your pain.

I can't WAIT to see Mega! Let me ask you Wallace, and any or all of you with experience, can this be done; you see something like a rock clump, brush pile, etc. 63 ft on the left side of your mega si in about 20 ft of water. You waypoint that spot. Check the breeze. Plot a trail 35 feet downwind of that waypoint, you plan, so the tail of the boat won't drift across the spot and that your retrieval is a natural one, and downwind. Jump up to the bow, lower your i-Pilot t/m, go back to the driver's seat, and tell the t/m to go to that trail, where it will follow slowly, while you're prepping a bait, switching a reel, while your partner in back is fishing, etc.

Basically telling your t/m what you want it to do, from the helm, not the bow of the boat? From the Mega SI image, not the map?

Would a touch-screen unit make this process smoother? If so, what's the lowest price touch unit?

[BoatBuggy]

If you have an ONIX or Solix, you can record an AC Live map and have SI data overlayed on it. It's called a "mosaic". Might take a few passes to get it looking good but it can be pretty cool. Not sure if this is available on the Helix.

[Fishfreq]

The link below will show various units and their capability with the new Bluetooth TMs:

https://www.humminbird.com/support/f...901.1537329407

Thnx EZ, forgot to mention, that table is very helpful!

[Fishfreq]

If you have an ONIX or Solix, you can record an AC Live map and have SI data overlayed on it. It's called a "mosaic". Might take a few passes to get it looking good but it can be pretty cool. Not sure if this is available on the Helix.

Now THAT is exactly the kinda specifics I'm looking for BB! To be able to record and autochart high definition side imaging data will be nothing less than amazing, IMO, and I see Doug is NOT using a mega image, just 455 khz?

My questions are:
- Isn't a HD ACL recording like that a massive data file? How fast will you eat a, say, 256 Gb memory card?
- How can you store enough data to hold years of ACL work? There's no Lakemaster chart with detail anything like that right?
- I've heard the Solix 10 only has a Micro SD card slot but the 12 has a full-size SD slot, is that true, and is that a factor? Haven't bought sd cards lately but it's amazing how tiny a 128 or 256 Gb full size SD card can be, are huge micros getting down in price now?
- I can only imagine if there was a way to save ACL data to a drive on the ethernet network say, a 500 Gb Samsung SSD (they're down to like $120 at Fry's), wouldn't that make way more sense? Am I talking gen 3 stuff here?
- What about contour lines you can follow? Will it create depth lines in intervals that an Ultrex can follow or do you need to blend that with a Lakemaster map to do that?
- Doug's map looks ugly, IMO, because he's zig-zagging so tight. If you make longer straighter passes, won't the saved ACL image be much more clear?
- I love the way the SI image can reveal hard vs soft bottom areas. Has anyone had good fishing experiences using 'follow bottom hardness' like, say, with a 30 ft offset where you can deep fish something there's no way you could have seen otherwise? Can that be done? Please tell me a story...
- I've seen Lowrances deeply discounted right now because they're about to release the 2019 versions. Is Humminbird about to do the same thing? I'd much rather wait than buy 2018 and then be so sad 2019 has better whatever...?

Anyone know any of these items please chime in. So many questions, I know, but I'm sure some other readers could benefit from this info.

[Wayne P.]

ACL only goes on a Zero Line Card that is 32GB. 32 GB is the maximum memory card size for a Humminbird unit. You won't fill up a ZLC card in your lifetime.
There are millions of Zero Lines (shoreline) on the card.
Lakemaster has more detail than you can create with Auto Chart. Lots of details are added by the cartographers.
All your conjecture about large memory card sizes is irrelevant--see the first sentence.
Yes the S10 has microSD readers and S12/S15 units have SD readers.
Follow the contour with Auto Chart, Auto Chart Live, and Lakemaster is done with HD maps. Those are separate file types and are not blended with each other. If you don't collect the data to have connected HD contour lines using Auto Chart Live or Auto Chart, you won't have a good contour map to follow.
If you don't pass over every square foot of terrain in several directions, you won't have a fully accurate map. You start the way Doug demonstrates and then fill in the missing data between passes to make your map more accurate.

[Fishfreq]

ACL only goes on a Zero Line Card that is 32GB. 32 GB is the maximum memory card size for a Humminbird unit. You won't fill up a ZLC card in your lifetime.
There are millions of Zero Lines (shoreline) on the card.
Lakemaster has more detail than you can create with Auto Chart. Lots of details are added by the cartographers.
All your conjecture about large memory card sizes is irrelevant--see the first sentence.
Yes the S10 has microSD readers and S12/S15 units have SD readers.
Follow the contour with Auto Chart, Auto Chart Live, and Lakemaster is done with HD maps. Those are separate file types and are not blended with each other. If you don't collect the data to have connected HD contour lines using Auto Chart Live or Auto Chart, you won't have a good contour map to follow.
If you don't pass over every square foot of terrain in several directions, you won't have a fully accurate map. You start the way Doug demonstrates and then fill in the missing data between passes to make your map more accurate.

Thanks Wayne for setting me straight, Lol. It seems like as detail goes way up, i.e. doing ACL with Mega SI, the data use should go WAY up too? 32 Gb seems like such a tiny amount these days, my iPhone is 256 Gb, and I'm half full on that. I know, no comparison.

I've got lakes that could really use SI ACL detail to fill in because the Navionics maps just showing lines don't show even a tiny bit of the actual boulder, brush piles, and rock gardens SI does. It's gotta be incredible to see that stuff in Mega, is it almost like draining the lake? If that info could be ACL recorded and fished like that it's gotta be a crazy eye-opener, like being blind for a lifetime and suddenly being able to see?

Can you please explain what a ZLC actually is? Is it a card that just contains blank lake maps outlines that you draw in ALL the ACL detail yourself? Can you construct the HD contour follow lines from scratch without owning a Lakemaster HD card, or is that LM card pretty much required?

[Wayne P.]

Thanks Wayne for setting me straight, Lol. It seems like as detail goes way up, i.e. doing ACL with Mega SI, the data use should go WAY up too? 32 Gb seems like such a tiny amount these days, my iPhone is 256 Gb, and I'm half full on that. I know, no comparison.

I've got lakes that could really use SI ACL detail to fill in because the Navionics maps just showing lines don't show even a tiny bit of the actual boulder, brush piles, and rock gardens SI does. It's gotta be incredible to see that stuff in Mega, is it almost like draining the lake? If that info could be ACL recorded and fished like that it's gotta be a crazy eye-opener, like being blind for a lifetime and suddenly being able to see?

Can you please explain what a ZLC actually is? Is it a card that just contains blank lake maps outlines that you draw in ALL the ACL detail yourself? Can you construct the HD contour follow lines from scratch without owning a Lakemaster HD card, or is that LM card pretty much required?

All current Humminbird units with GPS have built-in Auto Chart Live for up to 8 hours of contour map creation. After the 8 hours, if you want to keep what was created, you transfer the data to a Zero Line Card that has shorelines (zero depth lines). You can also have the unit write the data directly to the ZLC.
A ZLC card is included with the computer software Auto Chart and Auto Chart Pro. Those two can translate RECORDings done on regular memory cards or translate the Auto Chart Live data to Auto Chart. The created contour mapping has to be on a Zero Line Card to be read by the unit.
Auto Chart is read by the units like Lakemaster mapping with the same highlighting and adjustments.

Lakemaster and Navionics map products are not affected in any way by Auto Chart Live. Auto Chart Live is overlayed on any background map you have in the unit whether it is those two or mapping built-into the unit.
If you convert Auto Chart Live to Auto Chart with the computer software, that is the map your unit will read as Lakemaster directly from the card. It would no longer be overlayed on a background map.
You need no added map cards to do Auto Chart or Auto Chart Live, it has nothing to do with Lakemaster map products.
I use Navionics as a background since it has the shorelines I need that Lakemaster doesn't.

There is a sticky topic at the top of the forums that has all the information about it. So far it has 1015 posts.

[Fishfreq]

Yes the S10 has microSD readers and S12/S15 units have SD readers.

Follow the contour with Auto Chart, Auto Chart Live, and Lakemaster is done with HD maps. Those are separate file types and are not blended with each other. If you don't collect the data to have connected HD contour lines using Auto Chart Live or Auto Chart, you won't have a good contour map to follow.
If you don't pass over every square foot of terrain in several directions, you won't have a fully accurate map. You start the way Doug demonstrates and then fill in the missing data between passes to make your map more accurate.

Yes I saw the sticky and started reading but it was waaaay too many posts to get out of it what I was looking for, and I appreciate you taking the time because this is a big factor in making decisions on which units I'm going to get. It's such a huge investment, and so critical for my style of fishing. It's also crazy how fast this tech is advancing, another factor that makes me hesitate spending big bucks on something and next month they could introduce G3 that does something else way better.

Question, since 32 Gb is the max: is there any other drawback to the micro SD S10 vs the S12 (no way I'm getting the S15)? Obviously if you've already bought std SD you'd have to re-buy micro if you went S10 but I don't have anything yet.

So you're saying I can create follow contours with ACL, but it just takes a LOT of passes to make good maps? If time = money, it's probably wise to use a navionics or lakemaster basic contours and build ACL details for particular areas you'd like to chart, right? I had great results with navionics platinum on my old humminbird; will I be disappointed with lakemaster? Any and all with experience here please chime in...

[Wayne P.]

Yes I saw the sticky and started reading but it was waaaay too many posts to get out of it what I was looking for, and I appreciate you taking the time because this is a big factor in making decisions on which units I'm going to get. It's such a huge investment, and so critical for my style of fishing. It's also crazy how fast this tech is advancing, another factor that makes me hesitate spending big bucks on something and next month they could introduce G3 that does something else way better.

Question, since 32 Gb is the max: is there any other drawback to the micro SD S10 vs the S12 (no way I'm getting the S15)? Obviously if you've already bought std SD you'd have to re-buy micro if you went S10 but I don't have anything yet.

So you're saying I can create follow contours with ACL, but it just takes a LOT of passes to make good maps? If time = money, it's probably wise to use a navionics or lakemaster basic contours and build ACL details for particular areas you'd like to chart, right? I had great results with navionics platinum on my old humminbird; will I be disappointed with lakemaster? Any and all with experience here please chime in...

Whether its a microSD or SD card makes no difference except the physical size of the card.
All current map cards including the Auto Chart Zero Line Card are microSD and come with a SD adapter, including your Navionics Platinum if it is a version 6. Navionics has used microSD since 2010.

Lakemaster does not have the number of waters that Navionics has. You have to check the Lakemaster lake list for your area to see if any of your waters are included. The ones listed as Lakemater High Definition Survey* are very good.

Yes you can just do Auto Chart Live for areas that need more contour detail with Navionics. You can do the same with Navionics Sonar Charts. Just depends on how much time you want to invest in collecting your own data.
I have uploaded about 300 Recordings to the Navionics Sonar Charts program to have HD contours where there were none. I am currently doing Auto Chart Live at a new 520 acre lake just opened to fishing last year that has no contour mapping.
I am not going to do Sonar Charts there, I see someone has started there though.

[Wallace]

If you ask me if acl is worth it . The simple answer is absolutely . One thing you don’t here much talk about is the bottom hardness overlay. It took me almost a year to build my map but I got to use it this spring looking for bedding bass out in deeper water where no one in the lake fishes with any efficiency .between the hardness map and the 360 on the screen I developed a very reliable way to catch bigger bass that are not so lure shy. Acl was a game changer for me as well as 360. Also seeing a topo of a lake that has not been Surveyed since it was impounded in 1942 is pretty cool too. Lol