24v Fortex breaker tripping

[cape cod basser]

Have never had an issue with the breakers on the trolling motor until a recent tourney. We never started the big engine all day so the trolling motor was in constant use. We did get hung on a rock with the trolling motor and we both got in the back to float it off. (I did notice after the tourney that the skeg was off center about an inch and I turned it back to center).

Went to start the big motor to head to the weigh in, (We were real close), and starting motor was dead. Kicked the trolling motor on high and within 5 seconds the breaker for the trolling motor tripped.

Have NEVER had this happen before. Next time I used the boat I had no issue. Last week I took someone out fishing and tapped a rock with the troller blade. It was a light hit at best but it tripped the breaker again.

Am I looking at a weak breaker that needs to be replaced or am I having an issue with the motor??

[billnorman1]

That's a hard one. Did you have to loosen the bolts to return it to "center"?

[Rip Bass]

You can check the under load amp draw with an amp meter,that will tell you if the motor is drawing over amperage. You will need to know what normal amp draw is, should be available on MK web site. If the amp draw is within spec, then I would suspect the breaker. They can get weak over time and once they do trip a few times, it will be easier to trip.

[wmitch2]

Have you changed trolling motors lately ? It could be a high draw at full speed on a weak breaker, or the breaker is too small for the new TM, or the breaker is going bad.

[Jonestrollingmotor]

A little more information. The 24V Fortrex will be a 80# model that has an amp draw of around 55A +/-. This amp draw is the same no matter if you have it on 25% or 100%. The difference is at 25% you're pulsing the current 25% of the time that your on the button so the wires/breaker don't heat as much as continuous draw. At 100%, your drawing that amperage the entire time your trollingmotor is activated. Now, what size is your breaker? What shape are connections in? What size wire does the Champion in your signature have? This all enters in on why you're tripping the breaker.
Also, unrelated, but If the skeg is that easily turned, I would check for water in the lower unit by removing one bolt and see if it shows signs of water intrusion.
John

[Lou r Pitcher]

You can check the under load amp draw with an amp meter,that will tell you if the motor is drawing over amperage. .

Rip Bass,

What exactly are you suggesting the OP to have to use for measuring such high amperage? The typical inexpensive VOM if owned by boaters will max at 10 amps. He is not likely to have an expensive clamp amp probe nor the knowledge to use a series shunt resistor.

[Joe4d]

a 600 amp clamp on meter is $16.99 on Amazon,,, probably not precision but close enough for gov.
Jones Trolling motor gave him all the right answers. I would add to load test his batteries,,, could be going dead,,, Low voltage equals high amps equals tripped breaker.

So , lets go down the line of free stuff first..
1. fully charge batteries,go to a chain auto parts store and ask them to load test batteries.
2. Steel some of the wife's nail files and scuff up all your terminals and connections add a bit of grease,, make sure things are tight
3. Check TM plug/ connection for same.
4. Pull Prop and and loosen one bolt tilt motor down and see if water comes out. If bolt was slap arse loose might as well pull out both. poor out water..
5. If no water, just buy a new breaker... Probably cheaper than a decent clamp on. ive got a Fluke maybe $80
OK a bit of money.
Motor in warranty ? take to ASC,, out of warranty I would remove cap then spray snot out of motor with electrical contact cleaner , NOT BRAKE CLEANER ! allow to sit a few hours and dry lube anything that looks like it could use lubing with dielectric grease...
Check condition of seal put back together..
At that point if problem persists only thing I can think of is to buy a clamp on meter and measure draw,,,

[Jonestrollingmotor]

a 600 amp clamp on meter is $16.99 on Amazon,,, probably not precision but close enough for gov.
Jones Trolling motor gave him all the right answers. I would add to load test his batteries,,, could be going dead,,, Low voltage equals high amps equals tripped breaker.

So , lets go down the line of free stuff first..
1. fully charge batteries,go to a chain auto parts store and ask them to load test batteries.
2. Steel some of the wife's nail files and scuff up all your terminals and connections add a bit of grease,, make sure things are tight
3. Check TM plug/ connection for same.
4. Pull Prop and and loosen one bolt tilt motor down and see if water comes out. If bolt was slap arse loose might as well pull out both. poor out water..
5. If no water, just buy a new breaker... Probably cheaper than a decent clamp on. ive got a Fluke maybe $80
OK a bit of money.
Motor in warranty ? take to ASC,, out of warranty I would remove cap then spray snot out of motor with electrical contact cleaner , NOT BRAKE CLEANER ! allow to sit a few hours and dry lube anything that looks like it could use lubing with dielectric grease...
Check condition of seal put back together..
At that point if problem persists only thing I can think of is to buy a clamp on meter and measure draw,,,

Don't take this the wrong way, but with this information you don't need to be working on trolling motors. -- justsayin
The 600A clamp on meter, I havn't seen it but from my price shopping for the amp meter, I'm assuming it's an AC meter and not DC. If it is DC, please provide the link.
1.You cannot load test a deep cycle battery. A load test ask for a lot of amps over a short period. A deep cycle battery is more concerned with a few amps over a longer period of time
2.just use a wire brush to clean terminals. This should be regular maintenance and not just when you have a problem
3.true, but then again, regular maintenance
4.If it has water intrusion, you would want to separate the motor the correct way instead of just removing bolts and pouring out the water. Then let it air dry and blow out any residue, re seal and reassemble with parts as needed. BTW, I've never seen water cause it to trip a breaker. That's why my post said "unrelated"
5.Depending on what type/size breaker he has and how many times it has tripped
Now for the biggie.---- Do NOT spray anytype cleaner into the trolling motor. Do NOT use dielectric grease for anything inside the trolling motor. "IF" it has water, it should be separated, air dried, the blown with air to remove the dirt left from water evaporation. If it has scales from rust these need to be removed with a small wire brush, then blowed out with air. The armature should be turned in a lathe to remove rust.
Don't check condition of seals. Replace and put back together.
John

[Joe4d]

https://www.amazon.com/3266TA-Auto-R...10770394&psc=1
Here is your meter,, it does DC,,, amps is amps, Like I said probably not precision but good enough to tell between probably ok and way out in left field.
Sure u can load test a deep cycle... again wont give,,, fine tuning to show u its a bit off, but will definitely tell you if something is way out of wack,,, and its free.
The correct non plastic harming electrical contact cleaner will displace the water and not leave a residue,,, pretty sure I said if it is OUT of warranty... good possibility if it is full of water its toast.. But kinda a last ditch effort to get more use out of it. oh and after taking out bolts bolts meant pull it apart. New seals always better than old,, and seals tend to need lubed with said dielectric silicone.
Oh and FYI I am marine engineer and work on AC and DC motors and generators all the time. I mean that is all this is.. A simple DC motor. Not a Mars rover.

Trying to help the guy out to check a few simple things ,, he probably doesnt have a lathe..

[Jonestrollingmotor]

https://www.amazon.com/3266TA-Auto-R...10770394&psc=1
Here is your meter,, it does DC,,, amps is amps, Like I said probably not precision but good enough to tell between probably ok and way out in left field.
Sure u can load test a deep cycle... again wont give,,, fine tuning to show u its a bit off, but will definitely tell you if something is way out of wack,,, and its free.
The correct non plastic harming electrical contact cleaner will displace the water and not leave a residue,,, pretty sure I said if it is OUT of warranty... good possibility if it is full of water its toast.. But kinda a last ditch effort to get more use out of it. oh and after taking out bolts bolts meant pull it apart. New seals always better than old,, and seals tend to need lubed with said dielectric silicone.
Oh and FYI I am marine engineer and work on AC and DC motors and generators all the time. I mean that is all this is.. A simple DC motor. Not a Mars rover.

Trying to help the guy out to check a few simple things ,, he probably doesnt have a lathe..

This is copied from your link: "The clamp-on meter with smooth dial can test ACA ACV DCV resistance continuity diode and NCV. If you don't understand the initials, ACA = AC amps, ACV = AC voltage, DCV = DC voltage. NCV = non contact voltage.Yes, amps is amps -- but there is a difference in measuring DC amps and AC amps. I don't know where you work as a marine engineer on AC and DC motors, but working with anything DC, you should know that. Yes, it's a simple permanent magnet DC electric motor, basically the same as most starter on an engine. Again, there is no place for spray on cleaners for brushes, brush holders, armatures, magnets, etc. If a person wanted to spray on a cleaner, then blow dry it off, that would be OK -- but do not let it set. I've seen strange things happen to parts that set in a cleaner trying disburse water. Seals (O-rings, gaskets used in trolling motors) do not need any lubrication when used. They go on right out of the package. Just because it's had water in it doesn't mean it's "toast". I have cleaned many a unit as described above to put back in service. After all, I've only been working with DC electric motors, etc. for about 25yrs, and BTW, a battery that passes a load test may or may not hold under a trollingmotor all day, but a battery that fails a load test will not hold under any type load.
John

[moetorola]

I would replace the breaker, it the easiest and cheapest at this point. Unless you have obvious corrosion or faulty connections at the breaker. Also assuming it is a 60amp breaker.

With out proper DC clamp meter or equivalent way to measure DC current it is just a guessing game. Peak hold Dc amp meter would be a plus.

The rating on a DC circuit breaker is actually the continuous current handling capability at a nominal temperature (75 degrees for example cannot remember the exact Nominal temp) It will take well beyond 60amps to actually trip the breaker at 75f.

Due to the fact that nearly all fuses and breakers are thermally operated, the ambient temp plays a big roll in when the breaker will trip.

Besides ambient temp, if the breaker has tripped several times the contact of the breaker can become pitted causing resistance and resistance causes heat, and since the breaker operates thermally, repeated under load trips can cause premature breaker tripping.

Also depending on the type of breaker you have, some are better than others. I recommend the BUSS type resettable water proof breakers. Any other breaker with possible moisture exposure should not be in a boat, IMO. yes the BUSS type water proof breakers are more expensive but worth it in the end. Blue seas sells them for about 35dollars I believe.

Assuming you have an 80lb 24volt, the recommended breaker rating is 60amps manual reset.

[moetorola]

There is one test you can perform with a voltmeter.

By using a voltmeter across the breaker terminals under load, but maybe that is for another time!

[cape cod basser]

Breakers are twin 40A breakers. The batteries are one season old Duracell ( Deka) batteries. Terminals are clean with nuts not wing nuts. I coat the terminals with dielectric and boat is kept in the garage.
Pulled the prop and had some grass wrapped on the shaft but no line. See a small indication of rust in towards one small spot near the seal.
Do I pull one of the two bolts showing with the prop off to check or spin the prop end off ..??
plug is clean and tight.

[cape cod basser]

Loosened one bolt, no liquid at all. Dry.
AWG 6 wire at the batteries.
last time out I reset one breaker, but I’m not sure if both tripped the first time.
if it’s the motor I still have my Maxim I took off to put this on two years ago. I’m starting to lean towards a bad breaker at this point but not sure what kind they are where they are flush mounted or if I can even still get them.
Have a tourney this weekend.

[moetorola]

Breakers are twin 40A breakers. The batteries are one season old Duracell ( Deka) batteries. Terminals are clean with nuts not wing nuts. I coat the terminals with dielectric and boat is kept in the garage.
Pulled the prop and had some grass wrapped on the shaft but no line. See a small indication of rust in towards one small spot near the seal.
Do I pull one of the two bolts showing with the prop off to check or spin the prop end off ..??
plug is clean and tight.

40amp breakers??????

When you say Twin, do you mean one on the negative and one on the positive?
Or both on the positive, are they wired in parallel or series if on the positive???

If you do have an 80pound 24volt trolling motor, minimum is 60amp breaker. (but check your wire size)

https://www.minnkotamotors.com/suppo...on-and-rigging




Did you upgrade the trolling motor???

[cape cod basser]

Tried to post pics but tinypic is gone and I can't figure out how to host them anywhere else.
two 40A breakers so I would assume one for each leg. #6 wire. the breakers are integrated in the wall of the battery compartment so I can't see any of the wiring.

[moetorola]

Is there an orange wire and red wire going i to the box.

I am thinking you may have a 12/24 volt set up.

Either way 40amp breaker is to small for you trolling motor you have.

What trolling motor do you have?

[billnorman1]

Is there an orange wire and red wire going i to the box.

I am thinking you may have a 12/24 volt set up.

Either way 40amp breaker is to small for you trolling motor you have.

What trolling motor do you have?

Go buy a 60 amp now before you run out of time. Test it if you have the opportunity. Breakers in parallel should not be trusted to be additive and in series the lowest number is the actual rating. If one is on each positive they are in series.

[Joe4d]

yep I misssed that, the cheaper meters only do AC amps.. my bad, figured guy probably didnt want to get into armeture or brush issues. Looks like a fuse issue,,, Simple stuff first in electrical.

[cape cod basser]

Sorry but I'm not cutting everything apart and make it look like some hack job like others I've seen. I want to keep the original clean factory look. I'll upgrade the breakers to a larger Sierra and see how that works..
This looks like the ones I have. https://www.wholesalemarine.com/sier...rcuit-breaker/