1997 Javelin

[wentbroketryingtogopro]

As for speed you guys are beating me by alot in 2001 Renegade 19 with carbed 150 johnson. I wonder whats not right with mine. Granted i carry a heavy tournament load. Alot of tackle. But usually less than half of a 38gal. Tank of fuel with 4 blade Renegade Bass prop and im seeing at best 54mph GPS. Thats half trim and WOT. I wont trim above half on the gauge. So is my 4 blade prop but would a 3 blade really gain much Speed? Whats my issue JR19?

I am running a Raker 11 prop 24pitch,jackplate,i am thinking 3 1/2" prop to pad,1/2 tank fuel,the 3 batteries I have are not the heaviest out there,my weight is 180.Some of the difference also may be the 150ho etec engine.I have read where some says its produces around 165 hp.Hope this helps.JR19 can help you out big time.

[DustyD26]

6in TH Pro Hi-jacker. Prop says around inside 13 1/2x 23 so i assume its 23 Renegade prop. And im pushing around 5800-5900RPM at WOT.

[DustyD26]

My motor is RJ150PLSIG model#. Can send pics of anything you need but will have to txt them. Thanks JR9

[jav389]

i had a 98 389 javelin the best bass boat i ever had my step father had a 379 with a 150 like yours and that thing was scary fast you will enjoy it they are good boats

[JR19]

6in TH Pro Hi-jacker. Prop says around inside 13 1/2x 23 so i assume its 23 Renegade prop. And im pushing around 5800-5900RPM at WOT.

Your prop slip number is through the roof. If your turning a 23 pitch to 5850 and only getting 54 mph something is not right. I suspect it's one of two things. Your prop is the issue or your motor height is the issue. About every 2-300 hours of runtime it's a good idea to have your prop refurbished. Mark Croxten (BBC sponsor mark's high performance props) hands down is the best prop guy around. What he calls a repair I call a refurbish. Basically he will take the prop and put all blades back into factory specifications. People don't realize it but water is hard. Over a period of time you wear out the cup and the prop just naturally wears due to spinning millions of rpms through the water. Over time they lose efficiency due to wear. A good prop guy can make a prop just like new and in a few cases actually perform better than new. On your particular combo with a 4 blade you "typically" give up 1-3 mph so I would shoot for 60 instead of 62. A 4 blade will have better holeshot,better mid range punch and bite better in rough water but the trade of is a small speed loss. A 3 blade "typically" has better bow lift and more top end speed but not as good of a bite during holeshot or mid range.

As an example I was experimenting with props when I re-powered my boat. I installed two talons and my hole shot was horrible. A person let me borrow their 23 Renegade and I could turn it to 5900. The thing is the guy who let me borrow the prop knew nothing about the history of it. I don't know if it was a good or bad prop, I just know it did not work for me because at 5900 I was only getting 58 mph. "theoretically" if I had went to a 25 Renegade it should have brought my rpm's down and my speed up. Also another thing to note is the renegade line of prop turn different than other lines of 4 blade props. Example a 25 renegade turns about the same rpm as a 24 Raker. A 24 trophy turns about the same as a 23 Tempest. "Most" go down 1 in pitch when going from a 4 blade to a 3 blade however Renegade prop have a small overall diameter so they are easier to turn. Some people turn a 25 Renegade on the same combo you have.

Another issue could be prop to pad height. Once you get a motor too high on the transom you gain rpm but lose speed and water pressure because the motor is so high it can not get a good supply of water to the prop to bite and the gearcase can not pick up enough water to maintain adequate water pressure. It's really a splitting hairs game. Sometime moving a motor 1/4" or 1/2" up/down can make a world of difference. It all depends on how far you are away from the sweet spot. What is your water pressure at wide open throttle? Also do you know what your prop to pad height is? If water pressure is strong at wide open throttle then prop to pad is more than likely okay. Some people get confused on how to measure prop to pad but I can post a picture that makes it simple. If you have 15 psi or less at wide open throttle then measure your prop to pad height.

At 5850 your at the upper limit of your max rpm ban. Your speed is a little low compared to others but I would be more concerned in finding a setup that got my rpm's down to 57-5600 and a net speed of 60 ish. This should be able to be accomplished through the prop and prop to pad height. It's not going to happen overnight. The more info I know and learn the more apt I am to give the best answer I can...water pressure at WOT?...prop to pad height? Let me know if you need to see the picture on how to measure prop to pad height.

[DustyD26]

JR19 first thank you for the reply. Yes i will need a pic explaining measuring prorp to pad as i am new to all of this. Also if i remember correctly i believe im running right around 20psi at WOT on water pressure. Which i figured was good. So if you could send that pic on measuring prop to pad that be great. 765-960-8497. Also i just bought boat in January and unless the prop was not stock with the boat then it should have low hours. The boat was advertised to me as having 48 original hours when i bought it. But then i fish atleast 3 days a week so those hours hours were accurate it would not surprise me if it had around 70 now. So if your refurbishing prop after 300hrs i should be good. But it may not hurt to have it chacked out anyway.

[ChampioNman]

6in TH Pro Hi-jacker. Prop says around inside 13 1/2x 23 so i assume its 23 Renegade prop. And im pushing around 5800-5900RPM at WOT.

If those are your true RPM's you are out of the operating range for the motor and 200-300 RPM away from the 6100 RPM rev limiter. Your operating range is 4500-5500 RPM with your horse power rated at 5000 RPM. Your water pressure at 20 PSI is fine.

[JR19]

A prop to pad of 3.5" is typically close to the sweet spot for a combo like you have. Fred has forgot more about Johnson/Evinrude than I will ever know so take his word for gospel when he says the the upper operating rpm range is 5500. I was thinking 5600 or 5700 with a rev limiter of 6000 instead of 6100 but I can assure you he is correct.

As for advertised hours on the motor I am skeptical for two reasons...so let me explain why.

1. 48 hours on a 2001 motor is extremely low. That's less than 3 hours per year. If a person went only three times a year and only ran the motor 1 hour each trip for 17 years in a row they would have 48 hours. Why even have a boat if you done 48 hours in 17 years.

2. I would need a engine model number to confirm this but even without a model number I bet your Johnson is a carburetor motor. The only motors that have an internal time clock are computer controlled. A carburetor motor is not computer controlled. Now if my memory is correct (and Fred will know) Johnson made a very few Johnson Ficht fuel injection motors. They were computer controlled and would have an internal time clock in the computer. However I "think" they were 97 and 98 motors. In those two years Johnson made carburetor and fuel injection motors. Buy 1999 or 2000 they were back to carburetor motors on all Johnson and Evinrude was the only one making fuel injection motors in the OMC family. Now it is possible someone put a aftermarket external hour meter on the boat. The ones that registered time from the key switch could be off because if you left the key on but never started the motor the hour meter counted because it got power from the keyswitch, hence they may have higher than actual hours. You have extremely low hours so I don't think you have to worry about that. Then there is the type that registered hours from a wire that was wrapped around a spark plug wire. It only counted time when the motor was running however they were prone to stop working. They could be installed anytime. You could put one on now but the time starts at zero. I am not claiming anyone as a liar but I not buying 48 hours on a 17 year old motor, especially if that motor did not have a computer.

To me it would not matter if it had 300 or 600 hours. As long as everything is in good shape and well maintained you can get way north of 1000 hours on that motor. If you truly do have a motor with 70 hours that is 17 years old then great for you

Based on what info we have discussed I think you need a different prop (unless you come with with a real high prop to pad distance). If that is the case then lower the motor on the jackplate. If your prop to pad is in a close to "normal" height the a 24 Raker would be the prop I would look for. A 24 Raker II will work but an original Raker was more common for the era motor you have. If going to a Raker you will need different mounting hardware. My next in line choice would be a 25 Renegade. If your ever in south central KY near Green River Lake let me know. I have a 24 Raker and a 24 Raker II you can test spin.

[DustyD26]

Thank JR19 and Championman for your response. Yes my motor is carbed with NO after market hour meter. So the 48hrs if solely going off sellers word. I found hard to believe myself. The old man that bought boat new passed away and i bought from his son who is detective with Sheriff department in Frankfort, Ky. They said the old man used the boat very little. I had to have a Re-Jet done on carbs as soon as i got it from heatsoak. I am on my way to work but will measure prop to pad and provide that info this afternoon. Again thanks for your time.

[DustyD26]

Ok JR19 or ChampionMan ive measured my prop to pad based on diagram posted and unless i did it wrong its way off. It'd be lucky to be 2 inches. So im thinking my motor/plate needs dropped some. But i have no idea what im doing when it comes to that. So should my local tech be able to make these adjustments for me?

[JR19]

Just to make sure were clear on how you measured your prop to pad...

I would recommend a level that is 3 ft long. Place it on the LOWEST portion of the hull at the back. This will be the "pad" you are running on when up on plane, full trim going wide open. Adjust trailer jack to get the boat pad level. Two people make this part easier. One under the boat with a level and another working the trailer jack.

You can remove the prop or you can leave it on.

If you have a small or 6" level place it on the cavitation plate. Trim motor until level.

Measure at the rear of the boat on the LOWEST portion of the pad to the ground.

Measure from the center of the shaft the prop is mounted to (prop shaft) to the ground.

Subtract the prop to ground from pad to ground and this is your prop to pad distance.

If your truly 2" I feel without a doubt lowering will help drop rpm and gain speed because more than likely you have a ton of slip due to being too high. On a combo such as yours the sweet spot is typically + or - .5" from 3.5" (3-4"). As with anything there is exceptions but most people with the combo like you have "typically" use 3.5" as a good starting point. Now I will throw a variable at you...4 blades will sometimes require a little more height because they are harder to turn because they have more surface area. However Renegade props are different because they have an overall smaller diameter that most other brand of 4 blade props. This small diameter makes them easier to spin than other brands that are the same pitch. 99% of the time you hear people talking about pitch. Going up 1 down 1 when comparing props. However you need to make sure the diameter is the same or your just comparing apples to oranges. I GUARANTEE a 23 Bravo 1 XS is 2-300 rpm less than a 23 Renegade. Two reasons...Bravo 1's are a large diameter prop and they are made of a harder grade stainless so they are "stiff" to turn. It's really simple physics if you think about it but people 99% of the time just talk pitch and never account for diameter or stiffness. Anyways enough about other props you don't have. I was just giving an example of how variables can affect prop to pad.

Pending jack plate model you can adjust it yourself...I assume it's manual because if it was hydraulic I'm sure you would have already mentioned it and you would not be asking if a tech can adjust. If you're lucky enough to have a Rapid Jack they are suppose to be the easiest and fastest to adjust. I never had one, so I am only repeating what I have heard many times. Most manual plates have multiple side bolts and a "jack" bolt in the center. Loosen side bolts and turn jack bolt. Tighten jack bolt should raise and loosen jack bolt should lower. Sounds simple and it is but there the catch...jack plates have a tendency to stick from being in the same place locked down all the time. Sometime you have to loosen the bolts and trim the motor down onto a piece of wood to "break" the jackplate loose. Then stainless steel is easy to gaul when going through threaded aluminium. It's not that hard if everything corporates but if not it can get frustrating real quick. Yes a tech can do this or you can tackle this yourself if you feel like it. I suggest if you search google or youtube that you will find helpful "how to" info.

Out of curiosity what brand jack plate do you have?

[tdt91]

According to the link I posted in reply #11 Alan Stinson designed every Javelin hull. About 1/2 way down you can read what they had to say about Alan...here is a copy and paste...

" Their secret weapon however is; Mr. Alan Stinson. A veteran many times over, Alan was not only the founder of Nitro Boats, which he sold off to Bass Pro Shops, but he was the designer of the well known Skeeter Starfire, and the world record holding Stratos 201 hulls. He has designed every hull Javelin Boats currently have in their production line up. These are the same hulls they have been running under Javelins for some time now. He also designed the proven 19, 20, and 21 foot Stratos SS hulls fully tested, tried and scheduled for production on Monday 4/16/01. Alan Stinson has designed every hull that Larry Nixon has fished from since 1976!"

This very well may be the case but it could be that Alan designed it for Ken Cook and or other tall guys. After all he did run Javelins.

[tdt91]

Hey Dusty, one thing I would add is that over the past 19 years of running my R20 I have learned it loves lift (bow and aft) and it loves weight in the rear. I've ran several different prop on my rig and have found the Trophy to be the best all around performing prop. Hole shot, control, grip and speed are very important and the Trophy does it for me. I also run a Tempest on my Etec and yes I'll get a 1-2 MPH more but not as much control and grip in the rough water I regularly run in. I've learned this hull performs better and it tries to chime walk less with weight in the azz. Live wells and or fuel full. A larger diameter prop like the Trophy compared to the Renegade Bass also makes it chime walk less. I can only assume your hull is very much like mine but just shorter. Get the PTP down around 3.25 - 3.5 and see what happens. Make sure you are measuring correctly and if in a garage remember the floors are sloped. There is a 1/4'' difference in floor height from under my pad to the front of the gear case. You need to take that into consideration. Also as mentioned testing props is only as good as the props are. If they are used and you have no idea of it's history then you cannot trust what it's doing is what a new prop would do.
I ran a Renegade on my boat most of it's life and only figured out much later that other props performed so much better. Don't be afraid to test Merc Props. get a #200 Michigan Wheel hub kit and test some Merc props.

[DustyD26]

Guys thank you again for your feedback. JR19 i am running a TH 6" Manual Hi-Jacker plate. Bit i did not measure prop to pad how you described so im gna need to get my fishin partner over to help me get an accurate measurement. But just from what i saw its definately going yo be under 3". And also my Hi- Jacker adjusts just how you described. It has side bolts and then the center adjustment bolt. After i get an accurate measurement if it is under 3in i will attempt to adjust first marking everything the way it is now. After i do this i will report back and we will go from there. If that doesnt drop rpm and hopefully give me little more speed i guess ill have try different prop. Again thank you JR19 and everyone else who replied.

[JR19]

In the picture I posted and the instructions I gave it was left out this needs to be done on level ground...concrete or blacktop would be best but the key is the ground needs to be level.

[DustyD26]

Ok i will check my garage where my boat sits to make sure its level. Thank you.