Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Michigan Bass Club Moderator CGWright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, MI
    Posts
    13,892

    Black Butterfly Ammo

    Just curious if anybody has tried their ammo for 450 Bushmaster? I have been less than impressed with the Hornady FTX performance and am looking for something that will hold together better.

    Right now I'm considering the Black Butterfly 200 grain Stinger rounds at 2,435 fps. https://www.blackbutterflyammunition...-shock-stinger


    To report any post you disagree with press Alt + F4.

  2. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    21,508
    #2
    I have no experience with 450 bushmaster but I do with 45 colt and 45-70.

    If you are wanting good performance I would stick to something tried and true. Personally a nice cast bullet with a blunt meplat will work better than anything. 200gr is way too light for a 45 caliber rifle.

  3. Michigan Bass Club Moderator CGWright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, MI
    Posts
    13,892
    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Transom View Post
    If you are wanting good performance I would stick to something tried and true. Personally a nice cast bullet with a blunt meplat will work better than anything. 200gr is way too light for a 45 caliber rifle.
    That's the problem. Currently the only brand names available are the Hornady 250 gr FTX, the Winchester 250 gr XP and the Remington 260 gr AccuTip. I'm looking for something better than the Hornady FTX, haven't tried the Winchester that looks equivalent to the Hornady, and I've heard nothing good about the Remington load. Currently there are none others offered by production ammo companies.

    I could reload it myself, but I am not an expert in working up my own loads. I can do what a loading manual says, but not my own load development.

    The FTX does not have sufficient penetration IMO to offer a through and through. On two deer that were hit last season there was little to no blood for the first 100 yards. No snow on the ground, and thick cover. Neither deer was recovered, both were shot standing broadside at 95-100 yds while shooting from a solid rest. (easy shots) One deer was actually found 300 yds away about a month later. Two other bucks were shot standing broadside at 95 yds and they both dropped right in their tracks, but the bullet did not exit and I have no doubt there would have been little to no blood trail.


    I'm just in search of something that offers more ethical recovery of game animals should they be able to run.


    To report any post you disagree with press Alt + F4.

  4. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Lake Pocotopauge, Ct.
    Posts
    330
    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CGWright View Post
    That's the problem. Currently the only brand names available are the Hornady 250 gr FTX, the Winchester 250 gr XP and the Remington 260 gr AccuTip. I'm looking for something better than the Hornady FTX, haven't tried the Winchester that looks equivalent to the Hornady, and I've heard nothing good about the Remington load. Currently there are none others offered by production ammo companies.

    I could reload it myself, but I am not an expert in working up my own loads. I can do what a loading manual says, but not my own load development.

    The FTX does not have sufficient penetration IMO to offer a through and through. On two deer that were hit last season there was little to no blood for the first 100 yards. No snow on the ground, and thick cover. Neither deer was recovered, both were shot standing broadside at 95-100 yds while shooting from a solid rest. (easy shots) One deer was actually found 300 yds away about a month later. Two other bucks were shot standing broadside at 95 yds and they both dropped right in their tracks, but the bullet did not exit and I have no doubt there would have been little to no blood trail.


    I'm just in search of something that offers more ethical recovery of game animals should they be able to run.


    Sounds like a good excuse for buying a new gun
    I suggest a 45-70...the only government I trust...
    I'd agree with you , but then we would both be wrong

  5. Michigan Bass Club Moderator CGWright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, MI
    Posts
    13,892
    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bigkahuna19 View Post
    Sounds like a good excuse for buying a new gun
    I suggest a 45-70...the only government I trust...
    Agreed, but not legal for deer.


    To report any post you disagree with press Alt + F4.

  6. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    2,066
    #6

    USA

    Why not legal for deer? Shotgun only?

  7. Joe4d
    Guest
    #7
    yeh what makes the 450 BM legal but 45/70 not.
    Also what platform ? If it has to cycle an AR you are pretty limited to bullet design. Also simply loading heavier wont do as this is an odd ball case thats kinda short going heavier limits powder capacity.
    Some good bullets out there but surprised that bullet is failing to penetrate. However been hearing that across the line in Hornady poly tip bullets not holding up.. Why I stocked up on their old school lead tip interlocks. You shouldnt have to develop loads, just follow printed data and load a ladder,, start at 90%, of charge, then 92.5 then 95.. One of those will group fine only issue is pick right powder for barrel length and application..
    Im a pretty experienced loader and shooter and knowledgeable about balistics, but need more data,, BAsically platform, barrel length and rifling.
    Swift has a .452 bonded Aframe 300 grain bullet, that people use with sabots in muzzleloaders at around 1800 fps that blow big holes in deer and anchor them.. May not cycle an AR, but you could load it in chamber then put the HDY behind it.

  8. Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Slidell LA
    Posts
    2,842
    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Transom View Post
    I have no experience with 450 bushmaster but I do with 45 colt and 45-70.

    If you are wanting good performance I would stick to something tried and true. Personally a nice cast bullet with a blunt meplat will work better than anything. 200gr is way too light for a 45 caliber rifle.
    Transom-certainly not disputing you because I don't know. But why is 200 gr. too light for a rifle in a 25 caliber? I have no experience with a 45 cal. and only a little with a 44 mag. I looked and saw where DRT lads with a 170 gr. terminal shock bullet. With a little more speed than the heavier bullets, and if the terminal shock will expand properly at a higher speed (I don't know anything about the bullet), why wouldn't it work? Would it not feed properly in the AR platform? Thanks for answering.

  9. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    21,508
    #9
    Basically the sectional density is way too low. Sectional density is one of the most important factors in ensuring penetration which happens to be the first consideration of a bullet's performance on game.

    With big bore cartridges what is proven on game is heavy with a blunt nose.

  10. Michigan Bass Club Moderator CGWright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, MI
    Posts
    13,892
    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ROADRUNNER View Post
    Why not legal for deer? Shotgun only?
    Correct. However the MI DNR approved the use of straight wall cartridges with overall length of 1.8" or less.


    To report any post you disagree with press Alt + F4.

  11. Michigan Bass Club Moderator CGWright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, MI
    Posts
    13,892
    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
    yeh what makes the 450 BM legal but 45/70 not.
    Also what platform ? If it has to cycle an AR you are pretty limited to bullet design. Also simply loading heavier wont do as this is an odd ball case thats kinda short going heavier limits powder capacity.
    Some good bullets out there but surprised that bullet is failing to penetrate. However been hearing that across the line in Hornady poly tip bullets not holding up.. Why I stocked up on their old school lead tip interlocks. You shouldnt have to develop loads, just follow printed data and load a ladder,, start at 90%, of charge, then 92.5 then 95.. One of those will group fine only issue is pick right powder for barrel length and application..
    Im a pretty experienced loader and shooter and knowledgeable about balistics, but need more data,, BAsically platform, barrel length and rifling.
    Swift has a .452 bonded Aframe 300 grain bullet, that people use with sabots in muzzleloaders at around 1800 fps that blow big holes in deer and anchor them.. May not cycle an AR, but you could load it in chamber then put the HDY behind it.
    45/70 doesn't meet the straight wall requirements imposed by the DNR.
    Ruger American

    I wish Barnes would get on the band wagon. Their muzzleloader bullets are perfect for this application.


    To report any post you disagree with press Alt + F4.

  12. Joe4d
    Guest
    #12
    well as you dont need it to cycle a AR, Id use a coated hard cast blunt nose in the 250-300 gr area or that swift bonded 300