Fingers crossed for you.
Fingers crossed for you.
Update: The regional tech took another look at everything as stated in previous post. He took it out on a local river. He told me (email) it seemed that no matter what strategy he employed to slow the boat without causing a backwash condition, he failed. He said it is very possible that the water found in the fuel system of the engine may be coming up through the fuel vapor tank vent hose being submerged in water upon slowing down, slow speeds, or stopping. He said my vessel introduces a considerable amount of backwash during any stopping procedure or even while slow forward maneuvering. He said if the water found in my fuel system did indeed enter from this condition then the only fix is for the operator to remain "vigilant" and try his best to prevent a backwash over or around the engine cowling because the engine is currently operating as designed. I countered those statements with a question that if he as a Suzuki engine expert can't find a technique to slow down without an inappropriate amount of backwash, how can I? And we are talking about in calm "normal" conditions he couldn't find a way to prevent this backwash. We all know that with boat traffic winds, currents and a myriad of other conditions, preventing the backwash will be even more impossible.
He answered that all bass boats back wash to some degree or another, but that mine has such a low center of gravity that it is very easy to accomplish. In his opinion
the real reason for the back washing events in all bass boats , is a fundamental lack of re-engineering at the design level to accommodate the newest line of four stroke engines by any manufacturer. 4 stroke engines are significantly heavier than the two stroke engines these bass boats were originally designed to run with, engines that weigh 100-300 pounds less. He thinks it really falls back on the vessel design, boat manufacturers have not kept up with the advancements in engine technology.
The dealership I've been with since the beginning of owning this boat (who have now told me they wish to not be involved in my warranty issues in the future even though they're a BassCat/Suzuki dealer) told me I have a bill for this and Suzuki was not going to pay it. They also explained how much they lost by not being reimbursed by Suzuki on my 3 month long overheating issue last summer and no longer want to be involved. I spoke with the tech supervisor at Suzuki about the bill. He said he would take care of it "this one time" because they "feel bad" for the long turnover on the overheating issue last summer.
I contacted the tech supervisor to inquire what he thought could have caused the near shutdown sputtering last Sunday. He said possibly "residual" water that did not get cleaned out from the time the tech worked on it the week before. The week before the tech said if the problem wasn't fixed that he would need to remove and clean the fuel rails. I guess it wasn't important enough to do that the first time.
So I'm guessing I just need to hope that (in my opinion) near shutdown was residual water.
So are bass boats (BassCat Cougar in my case) not supposed to have 4 strokes on them? What about all the pros running 4 stroke Suzukis on their bass boat? There are even Suzuki/BassCat sponsored ones like I bought my boat from. The guy I bought my boat from told me he "never had a single problem of any kind." He said he never needed a problem corrected." And I know he ran this boat harder and more frequently(more stops and in rougher waters) than I ever have or will. Why isn't this a common occurrence and a known issue with 4 strokes? I do a lot of reading and never heard this until told by this Suzuki tech. Are boat and motor manufacturers aware of this and, if so, are they doing their due diligence to make buyers aware before they attach 4 stroke engines to certain boat hulls?
Or am I just getting excuses when the real answer lies in a bigger problem with the motor?
I feel like I'm really getting cornered now. I have an issue I don't feel I can prevent no matter how careful. And when it happens, not only will I be stranded, I'll be responsible for it being repaired and all the hassle entailed in doing so. Is this really what warranty years are supposed to be like?
This has come down to me having to stress every time I slow down, stop, and run the boat. How can I possibly control this backwash? How can you enjoy using a boat when being put in this predicament?
I ran the boat yesterday on a smaller lake. It was never necessary to run hard. I did put the boat on plane a few times and therefore had to monitor my slow down a few times. I never noticed any shaking or puttering but really didn't run the boat much throughout the day.
I will be practicing a few days and fishing a BFL on a bigger lake (Cumberland) this week where I know I'll be doing a lot of driving.
Last edited by BassCatKev; 04-28-2019 at 04:38 PM.
If... and I say if... the water is getting in through that vent hose on the fuel vapor tank, then I might suggest you find a small check valve to install on that hose. It would prevent water from coming in, but allow the tank to vent. What you would need to find out is what pressure the vent "vents" at. That way you can put the correct check valve on the hose.
Sam Dunaway
2005 Triton TR-21X
Powered by Suzuki 250SS
So, Now you have an engine with a warranty that not only your dealer doesnt want to work with you and Suzuki left you hanging for future work??!! You have done your part as a customer but I think it's time to get a lawyer and drop suzuki. Thats got to be the lamest excuse I've ever heard from a manufacture. Like you mentioned they have backed you into a corner and you have zero options if the issue comes back and they will use the excuse that it's not an engine problem but a boat problem. This certainly will make me steer clear of Suzuki for future engine options mostly because of piss poor customer service.
Joe Galada - Tamaqua, PA
2004 Ranger 521VX - Yamaha 250 SHO
That's terrible. Could you disconnect the vent and move it to somewhere less contentious? Even if it were only a temporary move it would prove or disprove the unlikely sounding theory.
This is a reprint from my comments in the General Bassboat Forums
"He said it is very possible that the water found in the fuel system of the engine may be coming up through the fuel vapor tank vent hose being submerged in water upon slowing down,"
Any chance of routing this hose so this can't happen?
And another thing, why did Suzuki build a 20 inch shaft motor which could be used on bass boats if this was the result?
Something's screwy here, there are other Suzuki motors on other bass boats that this is not happening to.
I have a lower horsepower, 175DF and my water pump outlet is below the water and as far as I know I don't have this issue. Mine sits low because I use a 16 inch diameter prop and I have to keep it low so it doesn't cavitate.
Could you question the other 250ss owners and see if they have this issue too?
What I'm getting to is the factoids don't add up.
Another question. Your motor is 4 stroke. It has a crankcase, in this case it's in the leg. Does it get water in it? In 4 stroke motors if water gets into the combustion area it usually fouls the crankcase oil which is indicated by a milky appearance.
Last edited by billnorman1; 04-29-2019 at 06:12 AM.
If water got into the fuel vapor tank vent, the fuel water separator on the motor should capture the water there and possibly throw an alarm. What's odd, is that they didn't bother looking at the IAC valve and MAP sensor to see what's going on with them.
2018 Bass Cat Lynx w/Suzuki 250SS.
In relation to the possibility of water entering the fuel system via the tank vent - I have a simple and pretty inexpensive solution for you - and one which is proven to work. I have it on my own boat, although for slightly different reasons.
- install a “catch can” just inside the hull where the vent exits.
So it works like this - vent hose from fuel tank goes into one side of the top of the can, and a separate fitting on the opposite side of the top takes a hose to the hull vent fitting. The inlet and outlet hoses are not connected, of course.
So what happens is that any water that enters via the vent falls down to the bottom of the catch can. But the tank still can vent and unless the catch can fills all the way up, there is no possible way for water to get back into the fuel tank.
I have seen people who have used a RACOR style fuel filter with the plastic viewing section at the bottom for this purpose - this has the added advantage of allowing you to see any water that has entered, and to be able to drain it off via the little drain at the bottom of the filter glass. Because the water has to go down thru the filter element, it also prevents water vapor going thru the vent line to the tank.
Easy solution to 100% prevent water getting into your tank from the hull vent fitting.
(In my case, i had an occasional situation where fuel expansion in the tank sent raw fuel down the vent line and out thru the vent, and down the back of the boat. I use exactly the same setup as above to catch any overflow and it inly allows vapor to escape thru the hull vent fitting. But we installed the same solution on a friend’s new boat that had a very badly positioned hull vent that was sucking lots of water vapor into their fuel tank. Worked a treat.)
One thing you didnt mention was engine height. I dont know if you have a jack plate or not - I know a lot of bassboats use them, but if not, is the engine able to be lifted one or two holes higher?
To me, this has still got to be an installation issue - otherwise there would be numerous similar reports happening, and there simply are not. We havent seen one such report over on the Suzuki forum. So logic says its either something specific to your engine, or to the installation.
Anyway, have a think about my “catch can” solution to the water getting into the fuel system via the tank vent on the transom, it will definitely work, and even better, if no water shows up in there after several trips, it provides you with solid evidence to go back at your Suzuki rep with!!
Last edited by Moonlighter; 04-30-2019 at 12:24 AM.
Thank you for taking the time Moonlighter. I've digested all parts of your excellent post. I don't trust myself in installing this.
I do have a hydraulic jackplate that I adjust accordingly.
I would love to hear BassCats response to this... that they are not designed for a 4 stroke.. WOW.. interesting..Originally Posted by BassCatKev
Bowhunter
2017 Alumacraft Competitor 205 Suzuki DF250, Suzuki 9.9 EFI Kicker, Garmin Network
Kev - I have probably made it sound more complicated than necessary! Its really very simple.
You could buy one of these filter kits, or equivalent.
https://www.ebay.com.au/p/Marine-Wat...577103ff9835b7
They come with 2 brass fuel tails, one is inlet, one is outlet. They dont have check valves so for the purposes we have in mind here, it doesnt matter .
Simply fit this filter in a convenient place - somewhere near the fuel tank vent fitting on the transom and its hose is ideal. Have to use screws to attach it to a bulkhead etc.
Cut the vent line and connect one end to the inlet hose barb, and the other end to the outlet barb. The result is that this filter is now in-line in the vent hose.
Job done.
Thats a good idea there moonlighter.
Update. Tournament morning. Boat starts fine off trailer. Go through boat check and turn off for national anthem. Go to turn back on for take off and nothing. Just a single beep that repeats with same time in between. You just can't make this stuff up. Anybody ever seen one this bad? Pic is of fuse under cowling.
Can't explain how pissed I am.
Not good.... something is shorting??
Can you contact that Suzuki rep?
Too awful. Time to Lawyer up unfortunately.
I will definitely be contacting them but how common is this? Does this type of issue fit the puzzle of my other issues? Is this something that just happens sometimes? Or is that level of heat (given the history) something more concerning than just an occasional blown fuse people have?
Not good.... something is shorting??
Can you contact that Suzuki rep?
I have many friends in my fishing club that run Suzuki’s of all hp ranges. Old and new.
Never heard of anyone blowing a major engine fuse. Except one who connected their battery leads up backwards ��
Fuses blow for a reason, of course. Just replacing them doesnt solve the cause.
Maybe (fingers crossed) this blown fuse may lead to them finding what the underlying problems have been all along.
Here in Aus, Suzuki mechanics are certified and the best of the best are certified Master technicians. If there is such a scheme in the US, it would be worth trying to find a dealer within a reasonable distance who has one and taking it to them.
I have sometimes found that engaging big businesses via social media gets attention to troubling issues quite rapidly ..... and is less expensive (and may be more productive) than lawyering up...
https://m.facebook.com/SuzukiOutboards
Last edited by Moonlighter; 05-05-2019 at 07:54 PM.
Thanks Moonlighter. I also sent you an email a few hours ago that asks you questions. Those questions still stand.
Thanks!
Please keep us updated Kevin. I hate that you are going through this.
Sam Dunaway
2005 Triton TR-21X
Powered by Suzuki 250SS
This is my post from the general bass boat section:Update. Tournament morning. Boat starts fine off trailer. Go through boat check and turn off for national anthem. Go to turn back on for take off and nothing. Just a single beep that repeats with same time in between. You just can't make this stuff up. Anybody ever seen one this bad? Pic is of fuse under cowling.
Can't explain how pissed I am.
Kev, that fuse did not blow it was cooked. You must replace the fuse holder, and the wiring any where near it that is discolored along with the spade connectors. This indeed could be the source of your issues. Have the most experienced wiring/electrical specialist you can find do the repairs.
In the electrical world we call this symptom the end result of a high resistance fault. I do know from experience this fuse will blow if hooked to the negative battery cable by mistake.
You might finally be one lucky guy, and if this fixes it get Suzuki on the line as well as the dealer that quit ( and I don't blame him). Once fixed, if it does finally fix it, then communicate.
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