Engine shuts down followed by 3 beep alarm.

[Moonlighter]

The Suzuki outboard forum is, regrettably, not actually run by or supported by Suzuki themselves. Its a forum set up and run by boats.net, probably as a way to get leads for their parts sales.

Kev - I posed the question about AGM batteries over on the THT forum.

Here is the link. The response from a major Suzuki dealer is instructive:

https://www.thehulltruth.com/outboar...-starting.html

Again, the finger is pointed at the installation as being the likely problem, and the common electrical install issues are identified in the response.

[Bassin Bob71]

The Suzuki outboard forum is, regrettably, not actually run by or supported by Suzuki themselves. Its a forum set up and run by boats.net, probably as a way to get leads for their parts sales.

Kev - I posed the question about AGM batteries over on the THT forum.

Here is the link. The response from a major Suzuki dealer is instructive:

https://www.thehulltruth.com/outboar...-starting.html

Again, the finger is pointed at the installation as being the likely problem, and the common electrical install issues are identified in the response.

^^^^Awesome thing to do to help a guy out

[BassCatKev]

That was very nice Moonlighter. I read the reply Suzuki gave on that forum. Given that the AGM easily meets the specs of the engine and that there is nothing wrong with it, I truly feel the AGM battery is the next easiest and difficult to dispute excuse Suzuki can come up with this time. There are people who have worked around this engine in the past that, when I say things like this, give me looks of agreement and understanding even though they can't officially agree with me. I'm no dummy on some things. I can read between the lines.
I hope a Suzuki rep or somebody at Renegade can take time to truly explain and show me how eliminating my perfectly fine top-of-the-line AGM fixes this issue.
If that doesn't happen, then all they did is remove my benefits of running AGMs that so many other Suzuki owners benefit from while forcing me to settle for a lesser battery that meets their ridiculously vague battery requirement that even their own national pro staff members don't follow. And at the same time they wriggled out of another obvious problem with the overall makeup of my engine. Not to mention burning another month of use time. But why even mention that because they obviously couldn't care less. After all I did buy a professional fisherman's boat. That's their excuse for everything. I should post the exact text screenshots and emails here. It's unbelievable. I have never in my life been more disgusted with a major purchase.

[bassmasterffej]

Suzuki! Come on...Step it up!

[BassCatKev]

Update: Called the dealership in the hopes they could have me done by end of the day today. No go. It'll be a Memorial Day weekend with no boat. Suzuki rep did enough 3 weeks ago to acknowledge the issue but apparently had no time or care to actually stay and work on it. Since I'm new to this dealer (old one that I had truly built a relationship with cut me loose when the going got tough thanks to Suzuki) I've been in line for weeks. Dropped it off evening of May 6th.
I had a dream last night that it would be ready and I'd get to pick it up with my newly purchased truck. During all of this mess my old pickup crapped out (a whole other unrelated issue). I just found and purchased a replacement. Maybe one day I'll get to hook it up to a boat. Again, never in my life have I been so disgusted with a major purchase. Suzuki doesn't even take the time to let you know they care. Suzuki makes bs'ers look like angels. I'd rather hear some bs than be laughed at for buying a national pro staffers one year old boat.

disgusting, embarrassing, degrading, deflating, shameful, disgraceful.

[rocket man]

You need a laywer. And start with the guy you bought the boat from and down the line from there. You spent this much , Whats a little more for satisfaction.

[BassCatKev]

Update: Wow what a busy day in the Suzuki Saga. I'll try to keep it short as no words can explain the outrage anyway.
Someone emailed my Suzuki rep regarding this thread. The same rep that doesn't show respect for me the customer sure had time to defend themself to someone who was simply inquiring. And they managed to discuss my business and get in some more jabs while doing so. I copied and pasted the email below.
A few hours later the dealer who has had my boat the last 3 weeks called. I was told they were going to get it to start ordering parts and noticed it was "leaking oil something awful." I just said I have no words So they're going to call the Suzuki mechanic and let me know how they proceed.
My last day of school was today and I was hoping maybe I could get the boat back and move on. Of course not. It's looking like another chunk of summer with no boat. It sure has a start that's looking that way.

[bassmasterffej]

I've heard from their own dealers that they are a terrible company to deal with. This is proof!

[dstep0]

Time to get a lawyer involved. Intent to file needs to be sent to them. I wouldn't stop until I have a new motor hanging on the back at their cost. They are burning bridges with potential customers and I feel by now they would've been ahead of the game if they dropped a new engine on it some time ago and taken your engine back to evaluate it on their own time.

Makes me sick for you thinking about if I was in your shoes. Good luck.

[billnorman1]

Repeated Overheating: apparently the cause of the shutdowns, but WHY? Is the overheats real or a false alarm?

Water in fuel: don't you have a fuel/water separator?

Improper Battery connections: I do know if you connect one of the wires maybe the one with the burnt fuse holder, wrong OR hook the big + and- wires wrong this will blow that 70 amp fuse instantly but will NOT cause that burnt fuse holder, that's a slow high current fault burn.

It seems to me that dropping the boat off at a dealer time after time is getting you nowhere. You might ask the Suzuki rep if there is any engine damage that can be attributed to this overheat issue or is it just that the computer has recorded overheats that might be caused by a short in the wiring or a bad overheat sensor OR if the water pump is defective.

You all are getting further and further apart, and I don't think this will get the boat fixed any time soon. It's horrible press for Suzuki, and this stain could cost them a lot of market share in the future in the bass boat segment. Personally I love my Suzuki DF on my Stratos, but like Johnny Cash sang in the song "Bad News", Bad news travels like wildfire, good news travels slow.

[booter]

Kevin has forwarded me the ECM logs and the water in fuel indicator never went off, therefore that theory has been debunked and he does a separate fuel water separator. Personally, I would be to the point where someone accidently stole me boat and claim the insurance or run it like a Merc till it pops and force Suzuki to give you a new motor. Just my $.02

Save date 9/4/2018
Comment
Engine No. 25004F-710106
Boat Type Basscat
Description
Engine information
Power 250PS-SS
ECM ID 33920-93JL1
Engine Type 4 stroke 4028cc
SERVICE DATA
Item Data Unit
ENGINE SPEED 0 rpm
IGNITION TIMING BTDC 5 °
MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE 746 mmHg
MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE 99.4 kPa
MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE 29.39 inHg
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 746 mmHg
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 99.4 kPa
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 29.39 inHg
CYLINDER TEMPERATURE 35 °C
CYLINDER TEMPERATURE 95 °F
INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE 35 °C
INTAKE AIR TEMPERATURE 95 °F
BATTERY VOLTAGE 12.52 V
FUEL INJ. PULSE WIDTH 0 us
INJECTED FUEL AMOUNT 0 mcc
HIGH FUEL PUMP DUTY 0 %
IAC VALVE DUTY 50 %
PURGE VALVE DUTY 0 %
EX-MANI TEMPERATURE (STBD) 37 °C
EX-MANI TEMPERATURE (STBD) 99 °F
EX-MANI TEMPERATURE (PORT) 36 °C
EX-MANI TEMPERATURE (PORT) 97 °F
THROTTLE POSITION ANGLE 0 °
THROTTLE POSITION SNSR OUTPUT 0.7 V
VVT ADVANCE ANGLE (STBD) 0 °
VVT ADVANCE ANGLE (PORT) 0 °
EMERGENCY STOP SWITCH OFF
CTP SWITCH ON
NEUTRAL SWITCH ON
VSV (MI) OFF
LOW FUEL PUMP OFF
WATER DETECTION SW OFF
SHIFT POSITION NEUTRAL
NO. OF CMP FAILURE(VVT_STBD) 0 times
NO. OF CMP FAILURE(VVT_PORT) 0 times
NO. OF VVT ADVANCE FAILURE(S) 0 times
NO. OF VVT ADVANCE FAILURE(P) 0 times
NO. OF OCV FAILURE(VVT_STBD) 0 times
NO. OF OCV FAILURE(VVT_PORT) 0 times
NO. OF CHECK CODE WIRE FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF EX TEMP SNSR FAILURE(S) 0 times
NO. OF EX TEMP SNSR FAILURE(P) 0 times
NO. OF SP SENSOR FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF TP SENSOR FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF OIL PRESSURE SW FAILURE 1 times
NO. OF NEUTRAL SW FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF INTAKE FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF MAP SENSOR FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF CKP SENSOR FAILURE 2 times
NO. OF IAC VALVE FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF CMP SENSOR FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF CYL. TEMP. SNSR FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF IAT SENSOR FAILURE 1 times
NO. OF FUEL INJECTOR FAILURE 0 times
NO. OF OVER-REVOLUTION 1 times
NO. OF LOW BATTERY VOLTAGE 0 times
NO. OF LOW OIL PRESSURE 0 times
NO. OF OVERHEAT(GRADIENT) 7 times
NO. OF OVERHEAT(TEMP.) 1 times
NO. OF WATER IN FUEL 0 times
TOTAL OPERATION TIME (HRS.) 277 h
TOTAL OPERATION TIME (MIN.) 22 min
0-1000 RPM 7982 min
1000-2000 RPM 3176 min
2000-3000 RPM 730 min
3000-4000 RPM 1700 min
4000-5000 RPM 1770 min
5000-6000 RPM 1106 min
ABOVE 6000 RPM 178 min
ELAPSE TIME FROM REMINDER CANCEL 54 h
NO. OF OIL CHANGE REMINDER 7 times
IDLING OP. TIME 2258 min
NO. OF SHIFT F 4470 times
NO. OF SHIFT R 1837 times
NO. OF START-WOT TIME(0-1 MIN) 11 times
NO. OF START-WOT TIME(1-5 MIN) 12 times
NO. OF START-WOT TIME(5-10 MIN) 0 times
NO. OF ST-WOT TIME(ABOVE 10 MIN) 1 times
NO. OF STARTING(FOLLOWING -10°C) 0 times
NO. OF STARTING( -10-0 °C) 6 times
NO. OF STARTING( 0-10 °C) 16 times
NO. OF STARTING( 10-20 °C) 16 times
NO. OF STARTING( 20-30 °C) 30 times
NO. OF STARTING( 30-70 °C) 281 times
NO. OF STARTING(ABOVE 70 °C) 15 times
THE LOWEST BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 679 mmHg
THE LOWEST BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 90.5 kPa
THE LOWEST BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 26.72 inHg
THE HIGHEST BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 771 mmHg
THE HIGHEST BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 102.9 kPa
THE HIGHEST BAROMETRIC PRESSURE 30.38 inHg
THE LOWEST INTAKE AIR TEMP. -6 °C
THE LOWEST INTAKE AIR TEMP. 21 °F
THE HIGHEST INTAKE AIR TEMP. 54 °C
THE HIGHEST INTAKE AIR TEMP. 129 °F
THE HIGHEST AIR TEMP. (HOT) -40 °C
THE HIGHEST AIR TEMP. (HOT) -40 °F
THE HIGHEST CYLINDER TEMP. (HOT) -40 °C
THE HIGHEST CYLINDER TEMP. (HOT) -40 °F

[billnorman1]

Wow, look at the data. 178 minutes over 6000, that's 3 hours. I think red line on my engine is 6100 but I don't run it there. Prop selection on bass boats is so difficult, the Pro might not have had the motor dialed in. I do not recollect Suzuki changing any motor parts due to failure due to over revving.
To me, the motor has been subjected to conditions that would cause cold seize on many others. Less than a minute from start to WOT 11 times. All in all the actual motor, all the smelly oily parts does not seem to have failed.

1000-2000 RPM 3176 min
2000-3000 RPM 730 min
3000-4000 RPM 1700 min
4000-5000 RPM 1770 min
5000-6000 RPM 1106 min
ABOVE 6000 RPM 178 min
ELAPSE TIME FROM REMINDER CANCEL 54 h
NO. OF OIL CHANGE REMINDER 7 times
IDLING OP. TIME 2258 min
NO. OF SHIFT F 4470 times
NO. OF SHIFT R 1837 times
NO. OF START-WOT TIME(0-1 MIN) 11 times
NO. OF START-WOT TIME(1-5 MIN) 12 times
NO. OF START-WOT TIME(5-10 MIN) 0 times
NO. OF ST-WOT TIME(ABOVE 10 MIN) 1 times

[Moonlighter]

Note that all bar one of the temp alarms have been gradient alarms. Just guessing but maybe linked to some of those start to WOT events? Only 1 temp absolute alarm, which is hardly anything out of the ordinary - easy enough to do even when flushing.

The ecu data has evidence of no water in fuel alarms, this seems to debunk the claim that this was a cause of the issues!!

Zero low battery voltage alarms too.

Wonder how the regional rep would explain those readings.... Hello??

The prop selection looks perfectly fine to me - these engines can rev over 6000 without issue. Only 1 over-rev condition is shown on the report. Again, that is absolutely nothing out if the ordinary.

I think the over-rev protection cuts in around 6400. My DF115 is propped to run 6200 lightly loaded at WOT and my dealer was very happy with that.

[BassCatKev]

I was called by Suzuki representatives this evening. I'm cautiously optimistic that a resolution will be reached in the next 2 to 3 weeks. Rest assured I will keep you guys updated when I know something definitive. I can't thank you guys enough for your interest and feedback. Again I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll have something positive to report in the near future.

[Moonlighter]

Fingers crossed for you Kev!

[billnorman1]

Could it be (hope so) the squeaky wheel gets the grease? Maybe with the amount of smoke generated on-line, the Suzy people will finally believe there's fire.
Money talks, maybe they finally realize this could cost them a bundle in bad press.

[mean_dean]

Been lurking on this thread and the other one, good luck Kevin and keep us updated with what you can.

[BassCatKev]

Thanks mean dean

[ranger492vs1]

I am definitely repowering by the end of this July. Suzuki is on my list as number one but now I just don't want to spend 20k for a 250ss and have to live that kind of an experience. I've already spent a chunk on the other black brand of 225. I sure hope they read this. Wow now I'm in a decision to make position as I was really thinking about the 250ss. You seem like a good guy and your patience is to be commended. The problem is I know I'm not blessed with that and it really scares me to think I would have to try and live that. Sure hope they do you well.... And really hope they read this complete thread because this incident has cost them some money.

[booter]

I am definitely repowering by the end of this July. Suzuki is on my list as number one but now I just don't want to spend 20k for a 250ss and have to live that kind of an experience. I've already spent a chunk on the other black brand of 225. I sure hope they read this. Wow now I'm in a decision to make position as I was really thinking about the 250ss. You seem like a good guy and your patience is to be commended. The problem is I know I'm not blessed with that and it really scares me to think I would have to try and live that. Sure hope they do you well.... And really hope they read this complete thread because this incident has cost them some money.

Did you price out a G2 or Yamaha SHO? When I went through the repower process a few years ago, the SHO and G2 were maybe $2k more & the G2 has a better warranty and some better features IMO. I almost went with a G2, but the dealer was kind of shady and my buddy who repowered through him was having issues getting things done. My Suzuki/Yamaha dealer was pretty straight forward with me and told me the pros and cons of each motor.

I still wouldn't shy away from Suzuki just yet. Now with Suzuki corporate looking into Kevin's situation, maybe this will prevent poor customer service going forward where we all benefit.