GTO car guys go to GTO meets and hang out on the web at GTO sites. Same for Ford Mustang guys. It would make sense for "Increasing Our faith" guys share the things that increase faith: Scripture, its application to life, worship life, which translation to use, etc. We should probably avoid things that decrease faith: clouding and pot shots of Scripture, poor spiritual (unbelieving)authors, etc. "A bad tree cannot bear good fruit." Mat 7:17
Ms, The bible you claim to be inspired by God is filled with interaction with unbelievers. I might direct you to the book of Acts and read Pauls interaction with the Athenians. He respectfully listened to them and respectfully gave his view. Paul didn't run in there and say to them they are Fords and he is a chevy.
Textual criticism benefits Christianity and can help us properly defend (apologetics) the scriptures just as the Apostles did daily. If you are afraid of interacting with those of different perspectives I think that may be a indication you are not confident in what you believe and only desire to "preach to the choir".
The title of this forum is "increasin our faith" ………………..There are other faiths out there other than the "Christian" faith. I am certainly comfortable with interacting with any of the other beliefs. It does not matter to me if they are Atheist , Agnostic or Muslim...……..ect
I can assure you the book by Ehrman will challenge you in your eschatological position and views of what Christ was propositioning. If you prefer to keep your head in the sand and not acknowledge the problems that exist that's your choice. I have concrete answers for Ehrman's textual criticism. I can tell by our interaction on this forum you do not when it comes the apocalyptic issues found the scriptures.
By the way, If you do not have a good understanding of Second Temple Judaism it is very hard / impossible for one to understand what Jesus was speaking about in terms of the Kingdom of God/Heaven.
I have learned more about my relationship with God and about His Word in the last 12 years of my life than I did the first 30 years. Why ? because I finally got my head out of the sand. I found I didn't have to take what was taught or preached as the gospel. God gave me a brain and the ability to reason myself.
I can remember years ago a local radio station where I live took Hank Hannagraph (bible answer man) off air because he changed his view on eschatology...……………...LOL That's what religion gets you.
I have seen/heard about church splits over the most trivial things...…………..that's what religion gets you.
Im a ford, your a chevy …………..you shouldn't be posting on this forum. That's religion...….
Last edited by godsdozer; 08-11-2018 at 02:21 PM. Reason: spelling
Dr. R.C. Sproul studied at some of those "Yikes" Universities...………………….He has done fairly well hasn't he ?
Here is aarticle that may be helpful. Have no clue of who or what the website believes, but its a start for the ones who want to have some very basic knowledge.
https://www.gotquestions.org/textual-criticism.html
Man I wasn’t trying to start a debate. I was just wanting some input on a new bible lol. Went with the ESV.
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LOL meadows...………………………...No debate here. Good choice on a bible. Enjoy the journey.
Just becasue some on here dont know the difference in "why" their bible reads differently.....................oh, nevermind. Some just like to be right and throw pot shots
No matter what method of textual criticism you believe is correct, this is an issue that should be discussed with grace, respect, and kindness. Christians can and do disagree on this issue. We can debate the methods, but we should not attack the motivations and character of those with whom we disagree on this issue. We all have the same goal—to determine the most likely original wording of the Bible. Some simply have different methods to achieve that goal.
Some believe we have the autographs...………………………………………….that was my point a few days ago. If we keep our heads in the sand...…………..we get gritty interpretations.
Last edited by godsdozer; 08-12-2018 at 12:13 AM. Reason: spelling
I use NIV and NASB.
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What do you mean by autographs?Originally Posted by godsdozer
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
Never mind, autographs = originals if I read understand correctly. Some good info here
a few notes from the wiki: The New Testament has been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work, having over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian. The dates of these manuscripts range from c. 125 (papyrus, oldest copy of John fragments) to the introduction of printing in Germany in the 15th century.
What is usually meant is that the New Testament has far more manuscript evidence from a far earlier period than other classical works. There are just under 6000 NT manuscripts, with copies of most of the NT dating from just 100 years or so after its writing. Classical sources almost always have fewer than 20 copies each and usually date from 700-1400 years after the composition of the work. In this regard, the classics are not as well attested. While this doesn't guarantee truthfulness, it means that it is much easier to reconstruct the New Testament text.
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
This is from Wiki too ………………….
The study of biblical manuscripts is important because handwritten copies of books can contain errors. The science oftextual criticismattempts to reconstruct the original text of books, especially those published prior to theinvention of the printing press.
Because of the vast translations of the bible over the centuries..…………..We have verses left out (on purpose because of textual criticism) , we have verses that read differently (because of textual criticism) , some do not have entire books (textual criticism ), some are minor errors such as commas or periods missing ect. Some are different because of the method of textual criticism used to interpret ……….
https://www.gotquestions.org/textual-criticism.html
This article kind of addresses the discussion I was having with MS...……………………
https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-inerrancy.html
Have a great day
"It is important to remember that the biblical manuscripts we have today are in 99 percent agreement with one another. Yes, there are some minor differences, but the vast majority of the biblical text is identical from one manuscript to another. Most of the differences are in punctuation, word endings, minor grammatical issues, word order, etc.—issues easily explainable as scribal mistakes or changes in spelling rules. No important theological issue is thrown into doubt by any supposed error or contradiction. Biblical manuscripts from the fifteenth century agree completely with manuscripts from the third century. We can have absolute confidence that the Bible we have today is almost exactly identical to what the apostles and prophets wrote 2,000-plus years ago."
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
You made a good choice and it will serve you well.
I think most folks would be pretty well served if they just read the Bible they have instead of using them as a table decoration.
The saying that the Bible is like a gold mine meaning you need to dig a little to get the most out of it has some merit.
I don't claim anything. Scripture makes its own claims: "All Scripture is God breathed..." 2 Tim 3:16. "For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Pet 1:21 Others as well.
You claim other (evidently valid) faiths. Christ said: "I am the* way and the* truth and the* life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Are you calling Christ a liar? He claims exclusivity. Period.
*definite article--one and only and not one of many (indefinite article) as you claim.
Why (how) would a proud unbeliever write anything to edify the Church?
While Sproul graduated from sem / university decades ago--the modern sems (Princeton) have gone awry and can scarcely be called "Christian". I know of a "Christian" sem/denomination where you can graduate and be on the clergy roster--while denying the Trinity.
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil." Is 5:20
P.S. We're not in fellowship with Sproul--never were.
Read A Panning and RCH Lenski for Christain commentary and probably not Mein Kampf.
Note to the Moderator or the powers that be:
The "Increasing Our Faith" site has evidently become too small. I recommend/motion/encourage you start a sister site, "Decreasing Our Faith" so that unbelievers (self proclaimed Ehrman) can have a loud voice and be happy. Pot shots at Scripture would be at the top of the list. "Did God really say...?"
Last edited by msethsmile; 08-13-2018 at 09:26 AM.
Read posts 14 (mine) and its response, post 18. The start of this disagreement. Which one edifies the Church? Which does not? Which testifies to the truth? Which does not?
The thread is about which translation to use. The point of the thread is not they're all irrelevant because Scripture is bogus, suspect (post 18). Scripture claims otherwise: 2 Tim 3:16, 2 Pet 1:21
Last edited by msethsmile; 08-13-2018 at 09:51 AM.
Never said any of them are irrelevant. Actually I said they are all good.
Have a great day.
Please, by all means, feel free to do that you'd like.
In the meantime, I think this one has run it's course, and the original posters question has been answered. I think it's time to wrap it up.
Last edited by CajunBass; 08-14-2018 at 06:48 AM.
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