Loop Knot for Spybaits?

[Aric11]

Based on the information available many would agree that the idea line size for Spybaits is 4-6 lb test for the Duo Realis 80’s and some use 8-10 lb for the 90’s on casting reels. From what I read most are saying to use the smallest diameter line you can get away with so your line doesn’t hinder the action of the bait on the fall / retrieve.

What I am wondering is has anyone tried fishing them with a loop knot? I feel like you can maybe get away with a higher lb test using the loop so you get a little more security in line strength without hindering it’s action. Any thoughts on this?

[Aric11]

Also, while on the topic of loop knots… Has anyone ever heard of or tried a “Sliding Uni-Knot”? Buddy of mine says he swears by it when fishing Senkos but I am a little skeptical.

Basically he just ties a regular Uni-Knot but instead of synching the knot down on the eye of the hook, he will synch it down on the his senko o-ring tool. The knot tightens but leaves a dime sized loop between the knot and eye of the hook. The knot will synch all the way down once a fish is hooked but remain a loop for optimal action during his presentations.

[DrewFlu33]

It certainly couldn't hurt, and I think those loop knots often end up being stronger in practice than regular knots due to not getting burnt on the eye of a hook or split ring when it invariably slips a little. That said, don't think it's the knot being tight on the bait that hinders action as much as it is the drag in the water created by being attached to a larger diameter line.

It's arguably a completely different thing, but that was ALWAYS the culprit when I was really into fly fishing for heavily pressured, picky wild trout. Lots of guys tied the loop knots and swore it made a difference, but going to "8x" instead of "6x" tippet, for example, would reliably get the bites you couldn't get before and right behind the guys with their loop knots. While other guys were fumbling around trying a size 18 pheasant tail with green thorax instead of a size 16 with copper, we'd just attach speed-tied generic looking nymphs to lighter tippet and whack them. We always called the problem "micro drag" and past basic fly fishing skills, solving it was the ace in the hole for moving from the 90% that caught 10% of the fish to the 10% that caught 90%. When fluoro came out, I figured it would be an additional ace in the hole. Not even a little bit - those fish weren't line shy, they were "unnatural drift" shy.

Maybe some spybaiting experts can comment on this application more specifically better than I can.


On the other knot...having a knot that's already cinched down tight then slide some more sounds like a burnt line disaster waiting to happen. Sounds like a crock to me. Why would you want to do that when you could just use a regular loop knot where that's not a concern? Maybe I'm not understanding the premise correctly.

[reason162]

What I am wondering is has anyone tried fishing them with a loop knot? I feel like you can maybe get away with a higher lb test using the loop so you get a little more security in line strength without hindering it’s action. Any thoughts on this?

I use the kreh's loop anytime I need a loop knot, and the key is to size the loop properly. You don't want a big sloppy loop that collapses on itself...that defeats the purpose. A small, tight loop that is stiff and acts like a split ring/snap is what you're looking for. Slide that overhand knot right against the eye of the bait and do your wraps there; the end result is a neat little loop that gives you tremendous action esp on the fall/slack line.

[Aric11]

I use the kreh's loop anytime I need a loop knot, and the key is to size the loop properly. You don't want a big sloppy loop that collapses on itself...that defeats the purpose. A small, tight loop that is stiff and acts like a split ring/snap is what you're looking for. Slide that overhand knot right against the eye of the bait and do your wraps there; the end result is a neat little loop that gives you tremendous action esp on the fall/slack line.

Never thought about using a smaller loop knot, thanks!

[brushsjigs]

Try a king sling. I use it for pop-Rs. You can use your fingers to stop the knot where you want it. Easy knot to tie.

[slipknobber bot]

IMO, spybaits work much better with a normal knot connecting them to the bait. IMO i think you get better side to side wobble when the nose of the bait is held firmly by the knot. I believe this is true with many swimbaits as well.

[Quillback]

Funny the timing of this thread, I fished a Duo 80 Spybait on Beaver lake just a couple of days ago. never had much luck with them so they had been sitting unused for the last few years.

I had noticed that there were suspended bass, out in deep clear water feeding on tiny shad, so I wanted something finessy that I could swim through the fish, gave the Duo a try and caught some fish on it, laregmouth and spots. Nothing sizeable, but fun on light spinning tackle. Didn't catch any smallies, which are supposed to love spybaits, but could've been a location deal. I'll be back this week to Beaver to try again.

I use a Palomar knot, 6lb. Invisx. The Duo had the subtle side to side roll that you want and the blades spun as they should, I don't see a need to go to a loop knot myself. This is not a bait that you want to have too much action out of, it's meant to be a low key, swimming along, subtle kind of bait.

[Buck456]

I've been trying the spy baits with no success. Could u get by with using a light braid tied directly to the bait and still work? I'm very new to the spy baits. So school me please.

[Quillback]

There's some videos out there you can watch. Tactical Bassin does one, it's worth watching. Consensus is to use a leader with braid.

[Dh0ckey11]

I've been trying the spy baits with no success. Could u get by with using a light braid tied directly to the bait and still work? I'm very new to the spy baits. So school me please.

I'd pass on the braid because spybaiting is such a visual technique, but I am sure it could work and not hinder the action. Braid also floats, but the light stuff floats so little it probably doesn't matter.

[danlaboucane]

i did try a spybait with 15 powerpro on a bass school on the feed to see if it works and yes it did ,no leader either but will spool it with 8 pro next

[Aric11]

With regards to the briad floating, some variation of "floro braid" where it's designed to sink (IE - Sunline SX1) solves that issue. I am an advocate of braid with floro leader. However, with spybaits, my leaders are normally much longer than with other patterns.

[DrewFlu33]

More and more sinking braids coming out if that's a concern. Shin Fukae peddles the YGK sinking braid, for example. I haven't tried it yet, but will at some point. Realistically, I'd think you'd not have to worry about braid floating due to the significantly smaller diameter relative to mono or fluoro. Visibility would be my concern and, as danlaboucane points out with his observation, we may give the fish way too much credit for seeing line.

I'm waiting for someone to make braid out of tiny strands of fluoro. Would sink, offer invisibility, and theoretically all the benefits of braid except maybe memory. Though maybe it won't work at all in our applications, fly anglers have been using furled leaders made from small strands of fluoro for years and years and they work fantastically, though those are made with something like 1 lb fluoro as the smallest individual strand. The neatest thing is that 4 strands of 1 lb fluoro results in something stronger and far more abrasion resistant than 4 lb fluoro.

To get something comparable to our current braids you'd need something orders of magnitude smaller than any currently available line sizes for the individual strands. I'm guessing extruding it into such fine strands then doing anything at all with it is the holdup. I've got no doubt that this poses a bunch of extra challenges.

[Buck456]

Thanks for the responses. I didn't mean to high jack the thread but it got me thinking. I've been using a ned outfit when I'm trying a spy bait. I haven't had much luck so fair but I've also not gave it a fair shake yet either. I do know while using braid the bait seems to have a nice little side to side wobble. I also do not fish in gen clear water either. So in my mind I would think a light braid would work, but like I said I'm just learning spy baits.