SHO Trouble. Opinion of what to do

[KYSkipper]

I took a 4 day vacation last week with the family. Day 1 at 6:30 am I had major trouble. I was fishing while the family slept. Looked behind me and had an oil slick trailing. After pulling it out of the water, filling it back up with oil, we (Mechanic and I) cranked it back up. It idled smooth as silk but the main seal under the flywheel was cocked up on one side which is where the leak was. I had just ran it about 9 miles from where we were staying to a marina. No warning horns, running smooth as normal. They checked the computer and there are no codes on it for low oil. That said, it did throw most of the oil out. There were probably 2 quarts left in it. I put it on the trailer with the trolling motor after discovering the problem and didn't start it back till the mechanic and I had filled it back up with oil and looked for the leak. The oil had been changed in it just before I left to go on vacation and I thought it might have been the filter leaking. That was not the case obviously. While we were looking for the leak it was running smooth, idling smooth, no knocking like it had internal damage. The mechanic was looking around elsewhere for the leak. I'm the one that spotted the main seal popped up and leaking. It was a steady seep, not a pour but then again it was idling so the pressure wouldn't have been as high as it was running up the river.

I had intended to run this rig another 2 years to let Mercury work the bugs out of their new 4 stroke then trade it off. This is however changing plans I guess.

Would you trust a rebuild on the engine or buy a powerhead long block? If I put $10,000 in this rig on a powerhead I will definitely have more in it than it's worth. I bought it used at $24,000 and already have about $3,000 in it fixing stuff. I figure I would have a tough time getting $18,000 out of it. I'm not sure a new powerhead would add much to it.

[jrbritt]

what year is the motor????

[yam911]

What is the complete serial number of the motor?

It is possible that the motor has not been damaged. I would suggest that a compression test be done and perhaps the cylinder walls bore scoped for any evidence of damage. Not a big job to remove the valve covers and inspect the cam shafts, cam shaft followers, etc., for signs of any damage.

The seal working its way loose is a known issue. Yamaha issued a technical bulletin to install a retainer to make sure that the upper main bearing oil seal does not migrate out of place. Depending upon how far you are out of warranty or out of the YES contract Yamaha might offer some help. Don't go telling them however that you want to trade to Mercury.

[Bryan S]

I would fix the seal and do another oil change and run it . I had a small block Chevy loose the oil pump pick up tube in a race and I was turning it 8,000 rpms for 20 Laps and the motor and it ended up lasting 3 seasons .

[KYSkipper]

The motor is a 2010. I don’t have the serial number available. It has had the powerhead replaced under recall according to the liar of a dealer I bought it from. However given the amount of fibs told to me by them I do not trust a word they said.

There is is no retainer that I noticed on that seal.

It has about 450 hours on it.

It it probably isn’t too far from you now. Wedowee has it. We are so limited here with quality mechanics. I bought it from Anglers Outpost and what I’ve since learned I wouldn’t take them an anvil to work on. I would have probably taken it to Reynolds in Harriman. The weight here averages 2 months right now.

[Jetboy]

Why do you think it’s damaged. Go run it. bet it’s just fine. You would have had all kinds of oh hell warnings had it hurt itself.

[KYSkipper]

Why do you think it’s damaged. Go run it. bet it’s just fine. You would have had all kinds of oh hell warnings had it hurt itself.

I was told by the dealer when I purchased it that it was a 2013. It's not, it's a 2010. I was also told that they had sold the Triton it was on originally and that they had hung the SHO on it new when the original HDPI blew up. The SHO was originally on a Skeeter and I really have no idea how it ended up on my rig. It goes right hand in hand with the stop leak they'd put in the steering and the HDS 8 set to simulator mode because it didn't work elsewise.

I figure there is some reason why the seal came out. Could be a bent crank. Could be a bad bearing. Could just have happened because it should have had the retainer installed and didn't.

[javelin90]

If I remember on previous post that the seal retainer ring had issues on the 2010 models and Yamaha under warranty repaired a great deal of them. Dealer added stop leak and hds set to simulation mode. Either orig. Seller or dealer is not being honest.

[yam911]

Get the Yamaha dealer to call Yamaha US and see if goodwill support can be provided. You might get lucky and get a new longblock. Particular if your block does not have the oil seal retainer installed.

Cross the fingers.

But first, I would make sure that the block is either damaged or it is not damage. You have nothing to lose. Put the oil seal back in place, install the seal retainer if needed, then go and run the hell out of the motor. If it is bad it is bad. If it is good it is good. In either event your are where you are.

Good luck.

[mainliner61]

The seal coming out has happened twice to a buddy of mine this year on a 2013 SHO 250. Both times he lost about 6 quarts of oil and we as running WOT both times. The second time it happened, the dealer put a retainer over the seal at no charge and also changed oil at no charge. Engine runs great. Your engine is probably ok

[KYSkipper]

If I remember on previous post that the seal retainer ring had issues on the 2010 models and Yamaha under warranty repaired a great deal of them. Dealer added stop leak and hds set to simulation mode. Either orig. Seller or dealer is not being honest.

It's a long story.

I stopped in and looked at this rig and asked them to take it for a test drive. They said, "We can go to Cedar Creek". Cedar creek is a very small state built lake. About 400 acres at most. I said, "You mean we are going to test drive a 70 mph boat on Cedar Creek." They said, "We do it all the time." I met the salesman there. I brought my own life jacket being used to doing that when I ride with someone else. This yahoo shows up with no vest and the boat. Cedar Creek is tight. You couldn't really turn the rig at speed. You could plane it off, shut it down turn around and go the other way.

First of all I switched the HDS 8 on and I noticed it looked odd. I kept pressing the page button but couldn't get it to look right. I had HDS9's on my Ranger and decided I just didn't know how to operate the 8. When I got it home on that trip where the steering went out I found out what was wrong with the HDS Unit. Went on to other things. Trolling motor didn't work. The salesman said, "Batteries are probably dead." I could understand that if it had been sitting on the dealer lot for a while.

When we got back to the dealership the salesman hollered for a mechanic to check the trolling motor to see why it wasn't working. I added, "Bring a meter." He said, "I don't need a meter." That should have been a run away sign for me. He looked around in the bilge and found a rotten end on one of the cables. He held it to the post and had me hit the button, still nothing. He said, "What if I put it on this other post." I said, I think we need a meter to make sure we have 24 volts at the plug and it's on the right terminals on the plug. Nope he said. In the deal I got a 36 volt Fortrex that had came off a new Skeeter exchanged for a Ultrex. I thought, no big deal. I can wire up a trolling motor.

I gave them 4 things to fix that I found and was supposed to pick the rig up 5 days later on a Saturday. They were supposed to replace a missing nut on the engine's mount, fix 2 broken plastic screws on the windshield, mount the Fortrex, and get me a folding seat and pole.

They did replace the missing nut. They half ass attempted to fix the 2 broken plastic screws on the windshield but did not fix them. The price on these things 2 to a pack are about $12.00 new. They tried to repair the screwed up ones. The Fortrex was sitting on the deck not mounted when I picked it up, and there was a folding seat there.

I picked it up on a Saturday and had some things to do. I did mount the Fortrex and found the problem with the trolling motor system. Indeed, a meter wasn't really necessary. The breaker in the back of the boat was completely blown. Not tripped, exploded. The housing busted and reset lever broke off. $30 for a new breaker and the old Maxxum on it came to life.

Didn't get to go to the lake with it till Tuesday. On the first turn going out of the dock here I found the steering out. Completely dead on one side. You could just turn the wheel and nothing. Limped it back to the dock and onto the trailer. I called this guy the next morning and his reply was, "You bought a used boat from us. We aren't guaranteeing anything. If you want you can bring it here and we will evaluate it and see what's wrong with it, then give you an estimate on the repair." At that point I finally figured out I was dealing with used car sales trash. I bought a seal kit for the steering and when I broke the system down that blue green colored Lucas hydraulic stop leak stuff came out. I put the seals in, bled it and went to the lake. It worked good. 2 trips later, the steering went out again. I guess that the stop leak did what it usually does. Didn't fix the leak but screwed up the valves in the system such that it didn't work. I ended up putting an entire new steering system in it. Helm, engine ram, and hoses. It's now fixed.

The next mess I ran across is someone had put new brake pads on the axle. UFP is of course the standard axle on boat trailers. The older axles used brake rotors, pads, and calipers from a Dodge Dart or K Car or something like that. The newer UFP axles are made by Dexter since they bought UFP and they use different pads. What ever idiot put these pads on the trailer put the new style Dexter made pads. They are too wide and they cut a grove in the rotor's hub until they apparently locked up the hub. A diesel Dodge v's a trailer with a locked up is no match. I drug the hub unknowingly until the tire exploded screwing up the fiberglass fender. Had to get a body shop to fix the fender and of course new tires, new brakes, etc.

Now this engine deal. They said they installed this engine new on this boat. That was an out and out lie. The engine came on a Skeeter. This dealer is a Skeeter, Triton and Bullet dealership. Somehow in 2015 it ended up on the Triton I bought from them. When I bought it I was thinking someone had blown the original HDPI and replaced it with this SHO new. Far different than one picked up off the shop floor and rebuilt. Top this off with the SHO was mounted too high on the transom. This boat was honestly undrivable above 60 mph even after I fixed the steering. They had it set 2 notches on the engine above the jack plate. When it came out of the water at speed the front would fall down and catch and it was hang on. I got a marine mechanic friend of mine to lower it back down and that fixed that.

Given the trolling motor didn't work and couldn't have because of the breaker situation, the steering problem and the fact the engine was mounted too high, I can't fathom this rig was in use by anyone and traded to them. That part about their "qualified staff" fully checking out the trade in before offering it for sale, Phooey.

Now this mess screwed up my family's summer vacation. The engine crapped out at 6:30 am on day 1 as I ran up to the dock to pick up some worms and crickets for my kids to fish with.

[KYSkipper]

Just curious. Does anyone have a link to a picture of the main seal hold down part?

[yam911]

[KYSkipper]

It definitely doesn’t have one of those on it.

[yam911]

All the more reason to get the retainer installed.

[Ranger519VS]

If you call Yamaha in Georgia and give them the motor serial # they can tell you the service history on the motor and tell you if they had ever performed the seal retainer upgrade. If not they may just supply a new powerhead for you as they have done for many others.

[printman71]

Try this number:
Yamaha Tech support 866-894-1626

[Wackyjig]

Replace the seal, put a retainer on it, fill it up and go fishing. No low oil or high temp alarms you're probably good to go

[FOURCED]

I took a 4 day vacation last week with the family. Day 1 at 6:30 am I had major trouble. I was fishing while the family slept. Looked behind me and had an oil slick trailing. After pulling it out of the water, filling it back up with oil, we (Mechanic and I) cranked it back up. It idled smooth as silk but the main seal under the flywheel was cocked up on one side which is where the leak was. I had just ran it about 9 miles from where we were staying to a marina. No warning horns, running smooth as normal. They checked the computer and there are no codes on it for low oil. That said, it did throw most of the oil out. There were probably 2 quarts left in it. I put it on the trailer with the trolling motor after discovering the problem and didn't start it back till the mechanic and I had filled it back up with oil and looked for the leak. The oil had been changed in it just before I left to go on vacation and I thought it might have been the filter leaking. That was not the case obviously. While we were looking for the leak it was running smooth, idling smooth, no knocking like it had internal damage. The mechanic was looking around elsewhere for the leak. I'm the one that spotted the main seal popped up and leaking. It was a steady seep, not a pour but then again it was idling so the pressure wouldn't have been as high as it was running up the river.

I had intended to run this rig another 2 years to let Mercury work the bugs out of their new 4 stroke then trade it off. This is however changing plans I guess.

Would you trust a rebuild on the engine or buy a powerhead long block? If I put $10,000 in this rig on a powerhead I will definitely have more in it than it's worth. I bought it used at $24,000 and already have about $3,000 in it fixing stuff. I figure I would have a tough time getting $18,000 out of it. I'm not sure a new powerhead would add much to it.

Your engine had gas in the oil. When you ran it hard the oil and gas in the crankcase got heated to the point where the liquid gasoline turned to a gas (Vaporized) almost instantly. That expanding gas had no where to go so it found the weakest link and pushed the seal out.

I know you say the oil was just changed so maybe this happened on a prior outing and happened just before you shut it off ??

That upper seal has a relatively large diameter so the total pressure on it due to that large surface area is high while this gas is expanding!

We all know about the oil in the gas but I've never read anything about that gasoline's rapid vaporization pressurizing the crankcase enough to push seals out.

I am confident this is the case.

The good news is - your engine is fine!

These engines are amazing but you need to change the oil frequently, Run them hard and keep the Idling to a minimum In My Opinion.

[javelin90]

Curious the state you live in do they require state inspections and if so I would call the agency tasked with overseeing state inspections. Not all dealers are that,way and it is unfortunate you got the bad one.