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  1. Ohio Fishing Reports Moderator omcforever's Avatar
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    #21
    And dont use fuel line or o-ring material for the deflectors. Just use the OE parts. If you remove the exhaust fillers you will have all kinds of runability/power curve issues. The only thing I do with fillers is have the block and filler blocks milled flat and level to insure proper sealing. They are a tuned exhaust. Half the people who are posting these mods and tricks have no clue and are just talking,,,remember with mods, if you change or delete something, you usually have to change something else to get them to work together. And as Fred says, as the horsepower/mods go up,,,reliability/longevity goes down.

    Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill !!

  2. Member
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    #22
    The only Evinrude motor I ever blew up was a 1978 115, I tried to make into a 140. I had the bubble back stuff but no filler blocks. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I don't remember, but I don't think it was a high ringer.

  3. Ohio Fishing Reports Moderator omcforever's Avatar
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by omcforever View Post
    And dont use fuel line or o-ring material for the deflectors. Just use the OE parts. If you remove the exhaust fillers you will have all kinds of runability/power curve issues. The only thing I do with fillers is have the block and filler blocks milled flat and level to insure proper sealing. They are a tuned exhaust. Half the people who are posting these mods and tricks have no clue and are just talking,,,remember with mods, if you change or delete something, you usually have to change something else to get them to work together. And as Fred says, as the horsepower/mods go up,,,reliability/longevity goes down.
    Fuel line will break down over continuous heat cycles and some o-ring material will do the same,,,do it right the first time.

    Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill !!

  4. Member
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    #24
    Thanks guys sounds like great advice!

  5. Member
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    #25
    PS

    It seems a trick to the rubber cooling system deflectors not shifting after install is to stuff their center hole with some plastic toothpicks after installing, it fattens them up and they then hold tight. Seems OMC didn't design them to stay in place well enough, I've seen articles where they shifted a lot on people and then plugged the water flow.

  6. Member
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    #26
    Thank you for the help.
    Yes I did go ahead and replaced the reeds with the composite while I had them out.
    I floated" the cages as I read to do online by wet sanding on top of a glass top with fine sand paper making a figure 8.

    316 found the orific bulletin for high altitudes and I found that the larger idle orifices (for the thin air pull?) called for are already in my carbs but the smaller high speed orifices are not so I have ordered some on ebay, they are hard to find, no change of mid orifices is called for.

    I was always taught to advance the timing on a 4 cycle engine by some 3/4 deg for every 1,000 feet in altitude.
    Have you heard if this applies any to 2 cycle engines?

  7. Member
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JIMTMCDANIELS View Post
    PS

    It seems a trick to the rubber cooling system deflectors not shifting after install is to stuff their center hole with some plastic toothpicks after installing, it fattens them up and they then hold tight. Seems OMC didn't design them to stay in place well enough, I've seen articles where they shifted a lot on people and then plugged the water flow.
    Where in the hell are you getting this kind of info?

  8. Member
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    #28
    +1 to what 316jughead said, not seen any move and on engines that we use down here in salt water only getting them out after they have swollen can be a PITA, when doing them on say a 30 year old V4/V6. Last one I did was a 1973 V4 that has been used in salt water all it's life and the bores were still great and no corrosion in the water passages on this 45 year old engine-not sure if we are going to see some other brands last that long in salt water.

  9. Ohio Fishing Reports Moderator omcforever's Avatar
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JIMTMCDANIELS View Post
    PS

    It seems a trick to the rubber cooling system deflectors not shifting after install is to stuff their center hole with some plastic toothpicks after installing, it fattens them up and they then hold tight. Seems OMC didn't design them to stay in place well enough, I've seen articles where they shifted a lot on people and then plugged the water flow.
    Stop searching google/outboard hack sites and hack mechanics and follow the OMC manual and real OMC techs,,,

    Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill !!

  10. Member
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    #30
    Thanks for your advice to buy the real deal factory service manual, I had thought the manual I had was the real deal.
    I've obtained and read through the 1980 omg factory service manual but I have not solved my idle issue.
    The main issue is that the manual says that at fast idle(where the cam is about to open the throttles) the cylinder 1 timing should be around 6 deg, however engine will not idle, it just dies quickly at this low timing. The only way I can get the engine to idle is to advance the timing to say 12 deg. and then the idle is too high for shifting into gear and also the synch is off so it falls during acceleration and the idle screw is never close to being seated and at wide open throttle the carb valves can not reach their full open stops.
    The manuals are not overly clearly written describing the timing throttle synch however I believe I understand what they are saying. It is my understanding from the manual and discussions that the carbs do Not open during idle.

    So I am left to conclude that the engine is not producing it's potential power at idle due to a problem with a cylinder(s), what else could cause this...?
    However all cylinders seem to be producing at idle as I can pull the plug wires using rubber gloves and a rubber handled pliers (there's plenty of sparking sound and I still can get a mild shock through all the rubber) and there is an rpm drop each of the 4 times.

    So I have installed new rectifier and rebuild kits on the carbs and sprayed all circuits with carb cleaner and no blockage of any kind was fount and 4 new coils and wires and power packs and new timer base as the old one has an out of spec higher ohm reading on one side.
    I have ohm tested the two wires for the stator for the low ohm of .5 and no continuity to ground and the stator visibly is good.
    Checked the new fuel pump with line off and engine cranking, it produces gas flow seems good.
    Floats are new and correct height.

    I have run out of ideas for now.. I have bought a peak voltage dva adaptor I may do some test as outlined on CDI electronic's site....

    Sometimes my dash tachometer will go crazy and at the same time my dash digital led graph volt meter will go blank, then they return to normal...probably a different problem...
    Sigh ...

  11. Member
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    #31
    Gosh Jim, I thought you had it up and going. Go to the hardware store, in the electric department and get a pair of plastic fuse puller pliers, no shocking with those and they work perfect. OK, now on the idle problem, you should be running Champion QL77JC4 or on your motor L77JC4 gap at .030, they have a special configuration on the outer electrode, you like to read up on things check that out I think it's interesting. First we have to get that sync and link perfect, the OMC manual explains it OK, carbs closed at idle, loosen the carb roller and move it away from the throttle cam, set your pick up timing at 8 to 10 degree's, use your control box throttle control handle to adjust the idle timing, this helps with the play in the linkages and helps keep the timing from moving while your adjusting the pick up point. Without moving the timing move the carb roller up to touch the cam, if the roller is not centered on the cam mark you will need to adjust the cam so that it is. Now restart the motor and verify that when the carb roller just touches the cam and is centered on the mark the idle timing is at 8 to 10 degree's. You may not have to adjust the idle screw, if you do I would recheck the idle pick up point. You shouldn't have any problem with the carbs opening full. Now as you know, you will idle higher on the muffs than in the water. Let us know how this works out.
    Last edited by 316jughead; 08-25-2018 at 08:20 AM.

  12. Member
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    #32
    Thank you
    I do now understand the idle settings with the 2 manuals I have.

    I am running the correct champion spark plugs and gapped to .030".
    Well it won't start or idle with the carbs closed unless the timing is advanced to say 15 deg instead of the 6 deg specified and the motor rpm will intermittently strongly surging and it often won't stay running say more than 5 min.
    When cold, I have to either keep the warm up lever up some or fairly often push the key in to activate the primer till warmed. After warmed, pushing in the key primer can bog the engine down as well as spraying fuel into any of the 4 carb throats so I don't think the problem is fuel related..
    Even when warmed up on muffs, when the timing arm is pushed back towards 6 deg, the engine quickly dies.
    The surging can be kind of severe and makes a sound as if one would think it's a mechanical sound/problem although the pistons and cylinders look fine, I don't know what mechanical it could be, I believe it's just an ignition problem that is strongly cutting in out surging combined with the timing advanced too much to compensate..
    When the engine surges, it seems I would be able to reduce the timing to specs but then the engine slows again as the rpm surging is short lived...

    There is no sound of escaping spark from the spark wires.
    Even though I have new power packs and 3 new coils. I have a spark tester but I didn't obtain a spark gap tester but have now ordered one on e-bay.
    I had thought that perhaps the coil orange wires were connected wrong to the power packs so that the cylinder was firing at the wrong time for the wrong cylinder but I checked the manual wiring diagram and they are correct.

    I did obtain a DVA adapter and am focusing on the Stator. I did not physically inspect the stator closely when I replaced the timer base but it didn't seem to show obvious signs of a melt down or such.

    The dva stator test shows both sides within cdi electronics site specs, reading 330 v at cranking and with engine running one side showed as high as 430 and the other 300 v.
    I also ohm tested the windings and everything has been cdi specs.

    Tomorrow I will slide out of connector the-disconnect pins for both side's engine kill circuit to power packs and see if that makes a difference and also the regulator yellow wires.
    After that I don't know what to check until the spark gap tester comes in the mail...
    I can remove the flywheel again and more closely inspect it's magnets and the stator.

    I will keep you posted as I learn more.

  13. Member
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    #33
    Bear in mind that the ohm tests were done at 70 degree's air temp and on cool parts. Ohm tests will be different at higher air temps and on warm parts. How much I don't know, but some, you can expect slightly different readings. I don't remember, has the motor ever had a good idle? Have you done the index the flywheel test to see if any cylinders were cross firing or not firing sometimes? If your using CDI parts, don't assume that the new part is good. I would test them.

  14. SC Club Moderator ChampioNman's Avatar
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    #34
    Have you tested the recirc check valves? These will effect idle characteristics. Did you install new gaskets when you replaced the reeds? Is the valve on your primer solenoid facing the correct direction?
    Last edited by ChampioNman; 08-29-2018 at 08:21 AM.

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    #35
    I am following this thread closely MCDANIELS because I am having a very similar issue with my 200 HP Venom. It is a 6 cylinder and my lowest cylinder is not getting fuel.
    I have done pretty much all the troubleshooting that you have done and I have noticed that my tach will max out for a second and then back to normal but the engine doesnt change.
    I have not tested the stator or recirculation check valves.
    Please keep me posted on what it takes you to fix.
    I am guessing if you decide to change the lower seal it could be a while. I really hope that is not my problem.
    98 Triton TR21, 200 Johnson Venom
    2011 RAM 1500 Loramie Longhorn

  16. Member
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    #36
    Thanks
    I did originally check with a syringe and rubbing alcohol the recirc check valves and they seem fine. I replaced their hoses and routed them per the manual.
    I installed new gaskets when I replaced the reeds and 2 chipped cages with the composite CSMS sport reeds.
    The manual start lever on the primer solenoid is facing rearward and not forward-on.

  17. Member
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    #37
    I did replace the lower crankshaft seal made no difference in the problem although it may have been leaking and improved the bottom cylinder power output, I'll never know as I recently bough this boat and it didn't run-idle right to start with.
    Last edited by JIMTMCDANIELS; 08-30-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  18. Member
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    #38
    Hmm ok
    More testing today.
    Wish the spark gap tester comes soon, that will show me the bottom line on if the plugs are sparking well.

    The motor has never had a good idle since I bought it last year.
    The seller did not state there was a problem however he had not used the boat in 6 years and was only asking $500 for everything...

  19. Member
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    #39
    Could you explain how you changed the top and lower seals?

  20. Member
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    #40
    Well disconnecting the stop circuits and the rectifier made no difference...
    Seems time to back track, going to check carb suction and visually inspect reeds.

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