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  1. #1
    Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    Question HPDI experts help me please!!

    2005 VZ225TLRD surges at 4000 rpms. The hole shot and acceleration is good to 4000. The surge is violent and rpms drop out drastically. If I accelerate out of the hole and back off before hitting that 4000 mark I can cruise forever without a hiccup. Prior to taking the boat into the dealership I changed the filters and installed new plugs. They hooked up diagnostic unit. It showed no code. They checked fuel and electrical and all they could come up with was small rust like particles in the needle valve inside the VST. It was taken to the lake by them and I was told it ran out fine. I drive 50 miles to pick up. Prior to returning home I took it to the lake. Same issue. Returned to the dealership. They again hooked it up to the diagnostic unit. Now a code shows up for high pressure fuel. They say it's the high pressure fuel pump located inside the VST which they replace. This is an expensive part. I return to the dealership today and again do a lake test before returning home. The dealership didn't have time to do lake test but assured me everything checked out. Once again I have failure at the lake. I returned to the dealership, they were stumped. I took the boat home to use at cruising speed and will return on Monday. Any suggestions or ideas of where to go from here appreciated. I have done business here for years but my patience is thin. I don't think it's right for them to keep throwing parts at my outboard and hope it works at my expense. Does this issue sound electrical or gas related to those in the know? I have owned since new. There are 380 hours. I had some electrical issues 2 years ago and many components were replaced at that time. The motor ran fine last year but started acting up about a month ago.
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

  2. Member
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    #2
    Have you changed all filters? Also, what is your compression?

  3. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #3
    All filters changed. Not sure on the compression but was told there is a 9% leak down on 4 cylinders, 10% on 1 and 12% on 1 and that was normal and acceptable.
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

  4. Tony C
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    #4
    Injectors ever been tested, flow checked/cleaned and adjusted?
    Ranger Z21/Yamaha HPDI 250

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    #5
    You mention electrical issues 2 years ago. What was the issue with the electrical? Has the stator been checked?

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    #6
    Change basket filters in the high pressure pump

  7. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyc View Post
    Injectors ever been tested, flow checked/cleaned and adjusted?
    yes
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

  8. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by javelin90 View Post
    You mention electrical issues 2 years ago. What was the issue with the electrical? Has the stator been checked?
    The battery cable wore through to bare wire where it enters the the outboard. The starter and the ecu were replaced along with injectors serviced. The dealership did multiple trial and error fixes before finally getting it fixed. It ran out fine all last year and now this started.
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

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    #9
    It sounds like a fuel delivery issue. When it surges it will loose a bunch of RPMs? Does it recover after a few seconds or just stay like that? Have fuel pump diaphragms been checked? Does the primer bulb collapse when it happens or have you checked the primer bulb when it occurs? It bet it will be something a whole lot more simple than high pressure pump.

  10. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bass Junkie View Post
    It sounds like a fuel delivery issue. When it surges it will loose a bunch of RPMs? Does it recover after a few seconds or just stay like that? Have fuel pump diaphragms been checked? Does the primer bulb collapse when it happens or have you checked the primer bulb when it occurs? It bet it will be something a whole lot more simple than high pressure pump.
    Thank You, This is the response I was hoping to get. I have not checked the primer bulb after it happens. What I have been experiencing is a surge and then back to normal if I am babying the throttle. If I try to go wot the surge is much worse and I need to back off the throttle and once I do the engine goes back to normal and will run that way as long as I don't go over 4000 rpms. I don't believe the dealership has checked the fuel pump diaphragms.
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

  11. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bass Junkie View Post
    It sounds like a fuel delivery issue. When it surges it will loose a bunch of RPMs? Does it recover after a few seconds or just stay like that? Have fuel pump diaphragms been checked? Does the primer bulb collapse when it happens or have you checked the primer bulb when it occurs? It bet it will be something a whole lot more simple than high pressure pump.
    Thank You, This is the response I was hoping to get. I have not checked the primer bulb after it happens. What I have been experiencing is a surge and then back to normal if I am babying the throttle. If I try to go wot the surge is much worse and I need to back off the throttle and once I do the engine goes back to normal and will run that way as long as I don't go over 4000 rpms. I don't believe the dealership has checked the fuel pump diaphragms.
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

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    #12
    Good luck. I've been tracing a gremlin the last 6 months myself.

  13. Member
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    #13
    Following... same type of issue for over year and half now... tech is done trying to figure it out. "ALL" my filters done... rebuilt injectors, new injector, new fuel lines, coils checked, different set used, new wires/power cables... showed fine on computer 3 times. Mine is little surging above 4000 rpms.. can't get over 4900 and 60 mph... it's been a real pain in the butt for sure.. Good luck.. please continue to post. There are several guys on here with some of the same problems as others... hopefully you figure yours out.

  14. Member
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by flippenstick View Post
    Thank You, This is the response I was hoping to get. I have not checked the primer bulb after it happens. What I have been experiencing is a surge and then back to normal if I am babying the throttle. If I try to go wot the surge is much worse and I need to back off the throttle and once I do the engine goes back to normal and will run that way as long as I don't go over 4000 rpms. I don't believe the dealership has checked the fuel pump diaphragms.
    I bet you got bad diaphragms or a bad primer bulb. The bulbs have check valves in them and they can go bad. I would take it out on the lake pump the bulb up good, run it to the point it surges and see the bulb is still firm. If it's not you can change a bulb out for cheap. You can always change the fuel pump diaphragms yourself and just see if they fixes it too. I think they are quite cheap and pretty easy to get to. The HPDI has low pressure pumps aka lift pumps and then in addition it has a high pressure pump. If the high pressure pump was the issue I would think you wouldn't even be able to run as well as you are now. There is a test you can do also to tell if it's the diaphragms but I can't recall exactly how you are suppose to go about it. If memory serves, you back the screws off just a little and pump the bulb and if it leaks gas you have a hole in the diaphragm. You may want to do some searching here for some previous threads about it though to make sure I'm stating that correctly. I don't consider myself a HPDI "expert" but I did own one for several years. I can't hardly believe your shop wouldn't have checked these things before the other things they did check, as these are common issues that occur with age. I hope I at least helped some.

  15. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #15
    The boat is back at the dealership as of yesterday. According to the service mgr. the diaphragms checked out fine. The primer bulb was replaced along with the fuel line 2 years ago but I am suspicious of it after reading the comments. I have not had a chance to check that out. The dealership was going to do a printout and consult with Yamaha. I will be picking up the boat on Thursday or Friday. I told them a boat that runs 40 to 50 mph is better than no boat at all! Our summers are short in MN and I'm not leaving my boat sit for 2 to 3 weeks while they try to figure it out. Frustration is setting in big time!!!
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

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    #16
    Mine was doing the same thing. exact same motor.. I changed every filter except mystery filters and it still did it. Change both lower lift pumps and my problem was solved.

  17. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jfed72 View Post
    Mine was doing the same thing. exact same motor.. I changed every filter except mystery filters and it still did it. Change both lower lift pumps and my problem was solved.
    Explain lower lift pumps? fuel pumps?
    Last edited by flippenstick; 06-26-2018 at 06:49 PM.
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

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    #18
    Fuel pumps. I think I paid $42ish per pump.

    FUEL PUMP ASSEMBLY WITH FUEL PUMP GASKET 6E5-24410-03-00KIT

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    #19
    Good info to know on lift pumps! Mine will die at idle and bulb soft, wont pump up hard, replaced bulb, still same. Runs fine on top. May have same problem. Thx

  20. Member flippenstick's Avatar
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    #20
    The diagnosis is in. The boat ran great during lake testing today. I will hold my accolades until after a bit more run time. A short piece of hose which is connected to the expensive metal filter located on top of the VST tank. It is the piece of hose that has the difficult connector that attaches to the metal filter. Apparently the hose deteriorated on the inside from age and ethanol gas. A piece of hose broke off, entered the high pressure pump causing causing it to fail. Experts weigh in!!
    Gary Burks Fergus Falls, MN
    2005 ZX225/2017 225 SHO

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