Thread: Iran/ Israel

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  1. Member
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    #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyyonder View Post
    You believe that? I don't think you do, but you bring it up as a counterpoint against another belief. It has the word "legend" in the title, and "folklore" in the first paragraph. That link is nothing more than an attempt to stir the pot. I have never said who is and is not going to hell, that's not my job. As far as clearing it with the Church, I assume you mean the body of Christ? That would require asking a bunch of people.
    I would not be surprised if this kind of stuff is taught nowadays, sad!

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    #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsktball55 View Post
    Just because they were Native American there are large differences between the different tribes. They may not have been Christian, but they had religion. Are you saying everyone that is not Christian cannot have morals? They had tribes and had their territory, tribes fought each other for land, slaves, woman, etc. We are not saying that they were perfect without sin, but the Christian Europeans were far from being perfect without sin as well. These white (one race) intelligent thinking men in Europe also fought for land, slaves, woman, etc. They killed their own even though they were Christian. You can't have double standards, you keep saying that the Native Americans were basically savages because they weren't Christian and killed others, but the Europeans were good people for doing the exact same thing because they are Christian.
    To answer your question, because it is human instinct to survive and part of surviving is competing against others, take their land to better your chances. Lessen competition by taking out your enemy, etc. It does not matter if you are Christian or not, humans will do what it takes to survive.
    Where do you get this from, I've never said such a thing. I remind you of what started this, that man through intelligent would establish laws to govern man. My question is and has been, why did this not take place with the American Indian before the settlers. If just intelligent thought was all it took then why didn't they do it. They advanced in many ways other than that, again I ask why?

    To answer your question, because it is human instinct to survive and part of surviving is competing against others, take their land to better your chances. Lessen competition by taking out your enemy, etc. It does not matter if you are Christian or not, humans will do what it takes to survive.
    So what you are saying is laws are of no matter when it comes to survival, killing is acceptable if you need to survive???
    All sheep are eventually led to slaughter

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    #283
    Had to open up here to see what all the clatter was about. Best entertainment I've had for free in a while. After 15 pages of the best and brightest in BBC on 2 different forums I am satisfied I am fine. Not sure why I'm in this basket or where I'm going but fine nonetheless.

    serious question: If all people are resurrected and live forever on earth won't it be overcrowded ? Get off my lawn !

    If we all go to heaven will I be 10,20,40, or 60 ? What age will my parents be ?

    Are we all going to be in our prime ? will I be an adult but my father an infant ? Lots of questions.

    Funny thread.

    Endeavor to persevere !
    GETFISHED !!!

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    #284
    And I'm going to watch it. I didn't wade through all 15 pages, but the fact that it got moved here tells me there is a lot of bickering and such going on. I don't want that here, anymore than the Lounge did.

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    #285
    Quote Originally Posted by getfished View Post
    Had to open up here to see what all the clatter was about. Best entertainment I've had for free in a while. After 15 pages of the best and brightest in BBC on 2 different forums I am satisfied I am fine. Not sure why I'm in this basket or where I'm going but fine nonetheless.

    serious question: If all people are resurrected and live forever on earth won't it be overcrowded ? Get off my lawn !

    If we all go to heaven will I be 10,20,40, or 60 ? What age will my parents be ?

    Are we all going to be in our prime ? will I be an adult but my father an infant ? Lots of questions.

    Funny thread.

    Endeavor to persevere !
    There are lots of things I don't understand and probably never will, yes all will be resurrected, but most to eternal damnation.

  6. Member besnyde's Avatar
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    #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff La View Post
    Where do you get this from, I've never said such a thing. I remind you of what started this, that man through intelligent would establish laws to govern man. My question is and has been, why did this not take place with the American Indian before the settlers. If just intelligent thought was all it took then why didn't they do it. They advanced in many ways other than that, again I ask why?
    The Native Americans did have a system of laws within the tribes that was enforced by the elders of the tribe and that did include not killing members of their own tribe. Most of them didn't even put members to death as punishment but instead used banishment. So your point was that the Native Americans were like a "control group" that was not exposed to Christianity and because of that, they never created laws against killing each other. You insinuated that only Christian morality taught them law. This is simply not true.
    2013 Ranger Z119 Mercury 225 Pro XS

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    #287
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunBass View Post
    And I'm going to watch it. I didn't wade through all 15 pages, but the fact that it got moved here tells me there is a lot of bickering and such going on. I don't want that here, anymore than the Lounge did.
    Truer words were never spoken Cajun Bass.

    I am with you about the bickering.

    And thanks to all of you who make this forum possible.

  8. Member Bsktball55's Avatar
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    #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff La View Post
    Where do you get this from, I've never said such a thing. I remind you of what started this, that man through intelligent would establish laws to govern man. My question is and has been, why did this not take place with the American Indian before the settlers. If just intelligent thought was all it took then why didn't they do it. They advanced in many ways other than that, again I ask why?
    I got it from many things you said, here are a couple of your quotes.
    To disprove your statement one only has to look at the American indian. Being of one race, yet different sects they are the perfect subject group. Their technology, albeit primitive evolved over time and life improved for them. The same would be said in laws and principles of civility and integrity, that they would evolve to better. However the different tribes of American Indians were in part enemies for the vast time before the white man arrived. If your thinking were fact they would have evolved past the kill or be killed lifestyle and worked together for a better life. Introduce the pilgrims with an advanced culture, using your thinking again, the American indian would determine it be beneficial to their community to adapt to the new lifestyle introduced by the pilgrims.

    Killing was accepted as common practice to the American Indian because they didn't believe what other sects believed. The pilgrims introduced laws. Had intelligent thinking been the driving force, the Indians would have accepted it and realized they could benefit from the laws established.

    In short Pilgrims came with Christianity. The simplistic basis of which is the 10 Commandments, in which one is thou shall not kill. Had intelligent thinking been a driving force they would have adhered to the simple law of Thou shall not kill. It is well documented that Indian tribes still fought among themselves well after the Pilgrims arrived.

    The fact of the matter is Jamestown settlers were constantly under attack from the native Indians. The Indians governed by way of intelligent thinking, so they thought.

    The settlers in Jamestown did not take over the entire US just a small portion of land near where they settled.

    Lets simplify it for Jim's sake and go back to before the Pilgrims. Native Americans fought each other on a regular basis, for whatever reason. Lets not inject pagan gods here. The Native Americans were intelligent enough to catch wild horses, tame them to ride, develop housing to follow the Buffalo in order to have access to food and clothing, yet they by intelligent thinking could not determine it was beneficial to not kill thy neighbor.

    So all of you who believe that intelligent thinking can dictate morals can't give an answer to my question. We have a one race nation, with no outside influence (before the discovery of America) and these same people can't intelligently think that killing your own is not good. Why is that?

    So you keep saying that before the pilgrims came and introduced Christianity, the Native Americans were basically going around killing each other all the time. Simply not true. They had their wars, but they also had rules and laws that they followed. The Europeans were doing the exact same thing though even though they did have Christianity. They were at war with each other during this time. The Europeans who were largely Christian also raged one of the largest cases of genocide that has ever happened in the world when they settled the United States. I'm not against Christianity I was brought up Catholic and believe there are a lot of good points to it. But I also do not believe in the fact that Christians are the only moral people in the world and that Christianity is the only way that people can be peaceful and moral. I believe that there has been a lot of bad things that have happened in the world in the name of Christianity, I believe there have been a lot of good things that have happened in the name of Christianity. I believe that people can have a moral compass with and without Christianity. I've seen Christianity do a lot of good things for people who really needed something to believe in and found Jesus and turned their life around, but I have also seen many people who claimed to be great Christians be horrible people. I've seen a lot of people that like to quote bible versus and talk the talk, but when it comes time to walk the walk and be a good person and help others in need, they are no where to be found. I've seen others who have never opened a bible that will give the shirt off their back and give you their last dime. I've seen churches that have done great things for their community and have turned communities around.
    In short, I believe there are good and bad people in our world, it does not correspond to what religion they are. There are good and bad Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, etc. Becoming Christian does not automatically make a person good and not being a Christian does not mean they do not have a moral compass.

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    #289
    I agree with a lot of what you have said. Good people come in many forms. My point was that it takes more than just intelligent thinking to govern man. Whether that comes from Christianity, (which is what I believe) or the Buddhist, Muslims or Hindu. As you said, man will do what they need to in order to survive, religion in whatever form is what limits man.
    All sheep are eventually led to slaughter

  10. Billyyonder
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    #290
    None of the naysayers responded to or countered my points, just crickets.

    2 John 7 New International Version (NIV)

    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

  11. Member Bsktball55's Avatar
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    #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Billyyonder View Post
    None of the naysayers responded to or countered my points, just crickets.

    2 John 7 New International Version (NIV)

    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
    Not sure what you are asking for. You quoted a bible verse... Anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus came in the flesh is the Antichrist? So you are you concerned that nonbelievers are evil or an enemy of yours? If you belief is solid, you will have nothing to be concerned about. The only way that a nonbeliever could cause you to waiver is if you belief is not absolute which many that have been responding seem to have. Why do you see a non believer as an enemy? Are you afraid that they will sway your beliefs?

  12. Billyyonder
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    #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsktball55 View Post
    Not sure what you are asking for. You quoted a bible verse... Anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus came in the flesh is the Antichrist? So you are you concerned that nonbelievers are evil or an enemy of yours? If you belief is solid, you will have nothing to be concerned about. The only way that a nonbeliever could cause you to waiver is if you belief is not absolute which many that have been responding seem to have. Why do you see a non believer as an enemy? Are you afraid that they will sway your beliefs?
    I don't believe they are my enemy, we are to love all people to Christ. I posted to verse because it shows the reaction of those that can't stand to hear Jesus Christ preached.

  13. Member Bsktball55's Avatar
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    #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff La View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you have said. Good people come in many forms. My point was that it takes more than just intelligent thinking to govern man. Whether that comes from Christianity, (which is what I believe) or the Buddhist, Muslims or Hindu. As you said, man will do what they need to in order to survive, religion in whatever form is what limits man.
    I guess there is always that thought in the back of your head of I should be good to my fellow man because there is a chance that I will meet my maker one day. But, that doesn't enter my mind on a daily basis. Do we behave on a daily basis because of our beliefs or is it more because of the short term consequences, being sent to jail etc? Obviously jail is not a deterrent for some, but then again neither is eternal damnation. To be honest, I'm not sure what causes people to be good or bad. Obviously for some, religion has made a huge impact on their lives and have turned their lives around for the better. On the other hand there are a lot of non believers who are really good people as well. It may be different for everyone. Do some people need the threat of eternal damnation to keep them inline and "force" them to be a good person? Yeah. Are other people just wired differently and were raised to just be good people? I also believe this to also be true.
    Ultimately I believe religion has made this a better world, but trying to force religion onto people and differences in beliefs have led to many issues as well.

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    #294
    Wow, what a thread ! Lol

  15. NOT a Pro Angler sdbrison's Avatar
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    #295
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    Wow, what a thread ! Lol
    Yea, it was moved from the lounge, where personally I think it should have stayed. This forum is more about Christians discussing beliefs or for those seeking answers to personal questions about Faith in Christ. As the title states the forum is for "Increasin' our Faith". Discussions of is there a God and what that means for our world should stay in the lounge, even when people are offended. If Al or the forum moderators don't want discussions on religion in the Lounge they should include that in the forum title and say POLITICS AND RELIGION can't be discussed. Dozer, if you really want to have some more laughs read the thread about how/why this thread was moved http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=904067. Again, just my thoughts and either way I appreciate and enjoy bbc as a whole.

    With that said, thanks to all those defending and expressing your beliefs here in this thread, no matter if those beliefs align with mine or not.
    Also, a special thanks to Wayne (Cajunbass) for keeping this forum open even when it may appear to be a "ghost town" as some have stated in this thread. The personal testimonies in the sticky links alone are priceless.
    Last edited by sdbrison; 05-15-2018 at 10:22 PM.
    "If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
    "Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack

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    #296
    sd, that wasted another 10 minutes of my life :)

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    #297
    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrison View Post
    Y
    With that said, thanks to all those defending and expressing your beliefs here in this thread, no matter if those beliefs align with mine or not.
    Also, a special thanks to Wayne (Cajunbass) for keeping this forum open even when it may appear to be a "ghost town" as some have stated in this thread. The personal testimonies in the sticky links alone are priceless.
    Maybe those who think this place is a "ghost town" should drop by once in a while, and visit.
    Last edited by CajunBass; 05-16-2018 at 09:33 AM.

  18. BBC PREZ Al from Canada's Avatar
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    #298
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunBass View Post
    Maybe if those who think this place is a "ghost town" should drop by once in a while, and visit.
    Exactly! Then it wouldn't be considered a "ghost town".

  19. NOT a Pro Angler sdbrison's Avatar
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    #299
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    sd, that wasted another 10 minutes of my life :)
    You're welcome
    "If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
    "Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack

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    #300
    Galatians 4:28-29

    28:Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29: But as then he that was born after the flesh (Hagar- Ishmael) persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

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